Fj60 birfields = FJ40 birfs? - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

85toyboy · 08-18-2003, 05:29 PM

I'm getting a FJ60 axle for the front of my 1971 fj40 and wondered if the birfields are the same? If they are I'll be taking them up to canada on vacation to get them smurfed. Thanks

dieselcruiserhead · 08-18-2003, 05:34 PM

79 and later birfs the same, 78 to 76, a hair smaller. You want to use the larger ones. 75 and earlier, smaller, and coarse splined AKA won't work with a disk brake hub.

So basically... No, (EDIT, your '71 Birfields) won't work for smurfing. He might be able to smurf them for you anyways, Bobby Long is able to do it, he just doesn't carry them in stock and you have to mail them in...

You can run them in your 60 axle, they are less weak tho...

Mustard Dog · 08-18-2003, 05:35 PM

Aren't they the same as mini-truck birfs/knuckles

dieselcruiserhead · 08-18-2003, 05:45 PM

It's the same size knuckle, the brake and hub parts are interchangable, but inside the knuckle is slightly smaller, this is why you need to grind either the birf or (preferably) the housing to get a mini birf to fit into an early axle. For example I just did this on my '71 that runs mini birfs, before I sent them off to get smurfed myself...

The birfs you'll be removing are course spline, somewhat useless unless you find a hub that will work for them with your disk brakes, which is possible, but they are still less desirable than mini truck / FJ60 birfs or anything from '79 and later...

Box Rocket · 08-18-2003, 06:16 PM

Quote:

The birfs you'll be removing are course spline, somewhat useless

Uh...didn't he say he's swapping an FJ60 axle into the truck? IF that's the case I'd assume he's swapping in a complete FJ60 housing and internals which will give him FJ60/minitruck birfs, not the course spline ones.

I doubt he's using the internals from his '71 axle with the FJ60 housing.

dieselcruiserhead · 08-18-2003, 06:22 PM

That's why I covered all bases

cruiserbrett · 08-18-2003, 07:12 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by 85toyboy
I'm getting a FJ60 axle for the front of my 1971 fj40 and wondered if the birfields are the same? If they are I'll be taking them up to canada on vacation to get them smurfed. Thanks

1971 fj40 birfs not equal to FJ60 birfs of any year.

fj60 birfs are the same as mini-truck birfs so plenty of donors out there. Keep the short side inner axle shaft(same as your FJ60 short side inner) from the 1971 axle, and the third member(4.10:1 ratio-but someone will want it). Sell the long side axle(shorter than the fj60 length) and shitcan the rest of the axle.

cruiseroutfit · 08-18-2003, 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally posted by Box Rocket
...I doubt he's using the internals from his '71 axle with the FJ60 housing.

I think he is taking the 71' birfs up to Cananda to get them "smurfed"...

But then again.. I am wrong now and then....

Eskimo · 08-18-2003, 08:19 PM

Damn guys, you got me all confused.

he is getting a FJ60 axle, period.

The birfs in the 60 axle are the same as minitrucks.

They are NOT the same as your '71 birfs, which are basically a lost cause anyway. (coarse spline)

Take the 60 birfs out and get THOSE worked on.

85toyboy · 08-18-2003, 08:47 PM

Sorry to confuse you all. I'm getting a FJ60 axle from Nolen, but it won't be here before I go to Canada. I have the FJ 40 axle and was thinking I would just bring those birfs if they are the same. Since they are not, I'll just wait for the FJ60 axle to get here and send those off to get smurfed. Thanks everyone for the info. I'll be keeping the short side if it is the same and selling the rest.

swon · 08-20-2003, 02:21 PM

So would it be better to use mintruck Birfs in my 1976 TLC? Will the mintruck knuckles bolt in place of the FJ knuckles, allowing the bigger mintruck Birfs to slide in without modifications? I'm getting ready to have a couple of Smurfields made and want the biggest I can use. I have access to the mini Birfs but haven't picked them up yet.
Thanks,
swon

dieselcruiserhead · 08-20-2003, 02:34 PM

Yes, the min truck knuckles will bolt in place fine, that's what I'd doing to run disks. But it still will not fix the problem, the birfield won't fit into the axle housing. Take your 4.5" grinder (if you don't have one, they're cheap at Home Depot and are a great tool), and grind down the housing. It only needs to go maybe an 1/8" down on the top and bottom of the inside of the housing. Fr8dog (who hasn't posted here in a little while, wazzup w/ dat?) has a neat photo showing him doing it to his front axle.

If you search you can maybe find it.

The mini birfs are a hair larger. I think it's much more worth it to grind the housing than the birfs. A lot of the time if you break one on the trail and don't have a spare, you're SOL because everyone has the larger birfs that won't fit in otherwise. It also has little compromise on strength of the whole unit too IMO...

swon · 08-23-2003, 09:38 AM

What part of the housing needs to be cut down? Sorry, I'm not getting it. You said the Mini Birf is longer are you talking about cutting the rear of the knuckle so it will fit and if I have to cut it down can I just use my stock knuckle?
swon

Landpimp · 08-23-2003, 11:03 AM

Quote:

Originally posted by swon
What part of the housing needs to be cut down? Sorry, I'm not getting it. You said the Mini Birf is longer are you talking about cutting the rear of the knuckle so it will fit and if I have to cut it down can I just use my stock knuckle?
swon

bottom of the inner knuckle, picture everything unbolted off the axle housing, what left is what I'm talking about, you grind the bottom of the knuckle, its not much.....

a screw it......I suck at explaining stuff

http://internet.cybermesa.com/~chscu...irfield%20Prep

http://internet.cybermesa.com/~chscully/grind.jpg

John

dieselcruiserhead · 08-23-2003, 05:59 PM

Yes, here's the photo from that site, it shows the grinding...

Mini brifields are not longer, they are the same length. They are just a hair larger in diameter at the bell of the birf. So you need to grind, as seen in the photos, to get them to fit into an early axle...

Best of luck, started putting mine together with my new Smurfieds

swon · 08-27-2003, 11:13 PM

Thanks for the information, guys! I was off the net for a few days. My computer harddrive crashed. My wife got it fixed and going again lastnight. I think I'll keep her around!

Anyway, I'm not sure if it's worth all the hassle of grinding the housing down to use minitruck birfs, if I have to go through realigning the knuckle. Travis can make my LC birfs into Smurfs and I have plenty of them. I'm going to send him two sets to modify for me. I have my hands full with my FJ-40 Hybrid rear axle and full-floating kit. It's going to be WAY COOL! I start cutting tomorrow!
Thanks again!
swon

swon · 09-02-2003, 05:55 PM

Wow, is a heat treatment process done on the minitruck Birfields. I just tried the same method I used to separate my Land Cruiser Birfields (a great BIG hammer). The mintruck Birfs couldn't take it. The hammer marks from each hit show on the minis but not the LC birfs. They seem to be junk. Anyone have any thoughts about this.
swon

dieselcruiserhead · 09-02-2003, 06:52 PM

They might be softer but that's actualy a good thing. In theory, you want them softer then they're less brittle and less likely to break. That's exactly what travis is doing by heat treating them

-- softening them

85toyboy · 09-02-2003, 07:41 PM

Yup thats totally the point, Toyota made these things hard enough to go 500,000 miles. So when the force is too great the metal shears instad of giving. By softening them they can absorb more shock without grenading.

swon · 09-02-2003, 08:36 PM

Thanks for the info. I never did get them apart. I'm going to try it again tomorrow at work. Is the big hammer the prefered method of separation?
swon

Box Rocket · 09-02-2003, 08:39 PM

I used a big peice of pipe (exhaust tubing) and slid the axle shaft down inside of it so the birf rest at the top, and then slam it hard against the ground on the other end. Shaft popped right out.

TRDV · 09-02-2003, 08:50 PM

yup, the pipe is my preferred method

85toyboy · 09-02-2003, 09:01 PM

da pipe....

swon · 09-03-2003, 02:15 AM

OK, the pipe it is. I'll try it.
swon

08-18-2003, 05:29 PM	#1 (permalink)
85toyboy Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Member # 876 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 1,596	Fj60 birfields = FJ40 birfs? I'm getting a FJ60 axle for the front of my 1971 fj40 and wondered if the birfields are the same? If they are I'll be taking them up to canada on vacation to get them smurfed. Thanks __________________ 1971 FJ 40

08-18-2003, 05:34 PM	#2 (permalink)
dieselcruiserhead Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12758 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 4,651	79 and later birfs the same, 78 to 76, a hair smaller. You want to use the larger ones. 75 and earlier, smaller, and coarse splined AKA won't work with a disk brake hub. So basically... No, (EDIT, your '71 Birfields) won't work for smurfing. He might be able to smurf them for you anyways, Bobby Long is able to do it, he just doesn't carry them in stock and you have to mail them in... You can run them in your 60 axle, they are less weak tho... Last edited by dieselcruiserhead; 08-18-2003 at 06:33 PM.

08-18-2003, 05:35 PM	#3 (permalink)
Mustard Dog Chubby Chaser Join Date: Oct 2001 Member # 7889 Location: Dumb Island Posts: 13,025	Aren't they the same as mini-truck birfs/knuckles __________________ Eric Anderson TIN BENDERS Hendrix XR Chassis #001 Ultra4 #66 4Wheel Parts, Raceline, PSC, Bilstein, Marlin Crawler, Smittybilt, HendriX, PacificFab, G2 Axle, PAC Spring, G&J, MAXXIS Roxy's in the industry and I'm a sponsored professional driver. The two of us together make a powerhouse. Accepting the things I cannot change.

08-18-2003, 08:19 PM	#9 (permalink)
Eskimo Registered User Join Date: Mar 2002 Member # 10429 Location: Danville, PA Posts: 4,456	Damn guys, you got me all confused. he is getting a FJ60 axle, period. The birfs in the 60 axle are the same as minitrucks. They are NOT the same as your '71 birfs, which are basically a lost cause anyway. (coarse spline) Take the 60 birfs out and get THOSE worked on. __________________ Rich Q. FJ-40 Cruggy - tuned 5.3/4WS rockwells/linked/ORI's/42's

08-18-2003, 08:47 PM	#10 (permalink)
85toyboy Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Member # 876 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 1,596	Sorry to confuse you all. I'm getting a FJ60 axle from Nolen, but it won't be here before I go to Canada. I have the FJ 40 axle and was thinking I would just bring those birfs if they are the same. Since they are not, I'll just wait for the FJ60 axle to get here and send those off to get smurfed. Thanks everyone for the info. I'll be keeping the short side if it is the same and selling the rest. __________________ 1971 FJ 40

08-18-2003, 05:45 PM	#4 (permalink)
dieselcruiserhead Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12758 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 4,651	It's the same size knuckle, the brake and hub parts are interchangable, but inside the knuckle is slightly smaller, this is why you need to grind either the birf or (preferably) the housing to get a mini birf to fit into an early axle. For example I just did this on my '71 that runs mini birfs, before I sent them off to get smurfed myself... The birfs you'll be removing are course spline, somewhat useless unless you find a hub that will work for them with your disk brakes, which is possible, but they are still less desirable than mini truck / FJ60 birfs or anything from '79 and later...

08-18-2003, 06:22 PM	#6 (permalink)
dieselcruiserhead Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12758 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 4,651	That's why I covered all bases

08-20-2003, 02:21 PM	#11 (permalink)
swon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 17748 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	So would it be better to use mintruck Birfs in my 1976 TLC? Will the mintruck knuckles bolt in place of the FJ knuckles, allowing the bigger mintruck Birfs to slide in without modifications? I'm getting ready to have a couple of Smurfields made and want the biggest I can use. I have access to the mini Birfs but haven't picked them up yet. Thanks, swon __________________ [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475b.jpg[/img]

08-20-2003, 02:34 PM	#12 (permalink)
dieselcruiserhead Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12758 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 4,651	Yes, the min truck knuckles will bolt in place fine, that's what I'd doing to run disks. But it still will not fix the problem, the birfield won't fit into the axle housing. Take your 4.5" grinder (if you don't have one, they're cheap at Home Depot and are a great tool), and grind down the housing. It only needs to go maybe an 1/8" down on the top and bottom of the inside of the housing. Fr8dog (who hasn't posted here in a little while, wazzup w/ dat?) has a neat photo showing him doing it to his front axle. If you search you can maybe find it. The mini birfs are a hair larger. I think it's much more worth it to grind the housing than the birfs. A lot of the time if you break one on the trail and don't have a spare, you're SOL because everyone has the larger birfs that won't fit in otherwise. It also has little compromise on strength of the whole unit too IMO... Last edited by dieselcruiserhead; 08-20-2003 at 02:36 PM.

08-23-2003, 09:38 AM	#13 (permalink)
swon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 17748 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	What part of the housing needs to be cut down? Sorry, I'm not getting it. You said the Mini Birf is longer are you talking about cutting the rear of the knuckle so it will fit and if I have to cut it down can I just use my stock knuckle? swon __________________ [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475b.jpg[/img]

08-23-2003, 05:59 PM	#15 (permalink)
dieselcruiserhead Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12758 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 4,651	Yes, here's the photo from that site, it shows the grinding... Mini brifields are not longer, they are the same length. They are just a hair larger in diameter at the bell of the birf. So you need to grind, as seen in the photos, to get them to fit into an early axle... Best of luck, started putting mine together with my new Smurfieds Last edited by dieselcruiserhead; 08-23-2003 at 06:00 PM.

08-27-2003, 11:13 PM	#16 (permalink)
swon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 17748 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	Thanks for the information, guys! I was off the net for a few days. My computer harddrive crashed. My wife got it fixed and going again lastnight. I think I'll keep her around! Anyway, I'm not sure if it's worth all the hassle of grinding the housing down to use minitruck birfs, if I have to go through realigning the knuckle. Travis can make my LC birfs into Smurfs and I have plenty of them. I'm going to send him two sets to modify for me. I have my hands full with my FJ-40 Hybrid rear axle and full-floating kit. It's going to be WAY COOL! I start cutting tomorrow! Thanks again! swon __________________ [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475b.jpg[/img]

09-02-2003, 05:55 PM	#17 (permalink)
swon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 17748 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	Wow, is a heat treatment process done on the minitruck Birfields. I just tried the same method I used to separate my Land Cruiser Birfields (a great BIG hammer). The mintruck Birfs couldn't take it. The hammer marks from each hit show on the minis but not the LC birfs. They seem to be junk. Anyone have any thoughts about this. swon __________________ [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475b.jpg[/img]

09-02-2003, 06:52 PM	#18 (permalink)
dieselcruiserhead Registered User Join Date: Jul 2002 Member # 12758 Location: Park City, UT Posts: 4,651	They might be softer but that's actualy a good thing. In theory, you want them softer then they're less brittle and less likely to break. That's exactly what travis is doing by heat treating them -- softening them

09-02-2003, 07:41 PM	#19 (permalink)
85toyboy Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Member # 876 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 1,596	Yup thats totally the point, Toyota made these things hard enough to go 500,000 miles. So when the force is too great the metal shears instad of giving. By softening them they can absorb more shock without grenading. __________________ 1971 FJ 40

09-02-2003, 08:36 PM	#20 (permalink)
swon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 17748 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	Thanks for the info. I never did get them apart. I'm going to try it again tomorrow at work. Is the big hammer the prefered method of separation? swon __________________ [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475b.jpg[/img]

09-02-2003, 08:39 PM	#21 (permalink)
Box Rocket Registered User Join Date: Aug 2001 Member # 6754 Location: stuck at work as usual Posts: 1,581	I used a big peice of pipe (exhaust tubing) and slid the axle shaft down inside of it so the birf rest at the top, and then slam it hard against the ground on the other end. Shaft popped right out. __________________ Adam '93FZJ80 - '03 Tacoma V6 TRD DC

09-02-2003, 08:50 PM	#22 (permalink)
TRDV Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 18149 Location: Abbotsford B.C. Canada Posts: 252	yup, the pipe is my preferred method

09-02-2003, 09:01 PM	#23 (permalink)
85toyboy Registered User Join Date: May 2000 Member # 876 Location: Eagle River, Alaska Posts: 1,596	da pipe.... __________________ 1971 FJ 40

09-03-2003, 02:15 AM	#24 (permalink)
swon Registered User Join Date: Mar 2003 Member # 17748 Location: West Virginia Posts: 160	OK, the pipe it is. I'll try it. swon __________________ [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475a.jpg[/img] [img]http://www.rockcrawler.com/readersrides/photos/2475b.jpg[/img]

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