Speed sensor removal on 4L60E - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Toyota - Land Cruiser
Notices

Reply
 
Share Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 06-01-2004, 08:43 AM   #1 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 27966
Location: Metro Detroit Suburb
Posts: 35
Speed sensor removal on 4L60E

Just about to start my conversion and noticed a gear on the output
shaft (measured with a sensor mounted on the tail shaft). I will be "AA"
adapting the 4L60E to a '79 transfer case (was coupled with the 4
speed transmission). I have obtained the new gear from
Advance Adapters. Since it slides on, I have to remove that OEM
gear. Tried to twist it to remove it (even with heat) with negative
results. Couldn't find a pin or key that keeps it in place, tried
heat to loosen it, wont' budge. Do I have to grind it off (hope not), I assume that it was pressed on.

Anyone have this same issue?
__________________
Pessimism and The Big Bang: "In the Beginning, there was nothing... Which exploded."
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 10:43 AM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
the part you're referring to is called a reluctor ring. it's pressed on. if i were in your shoes, i'd call AA and talk with the before going any further.
i know for a fact you'll have to run a speed sensor on the t-case. the one on the trans should not be needed any more.
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Sponsored Links
Old 06-01-2004, 11:10 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Member # 6863
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,792
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefj45
the part you're referring to is called a reluctor ring. it's pressed on. if i were in your shoes, i'd call AA and talk with the before going any further.
i know for a fact you'll have to run a speed sensor on the t-case. the one on the trans should not be needed any more.
I think you will need to use the one on the tranny adapter. Since the 4l60e is electronically controlled it looks for a speed pickup there I think, otherwise you would mess up the shift points in low range?
__________________
I have enough projects for the next decade. Need two?
cruiserbrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 11:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
on a stock gm 4wd application, there is no speed sensor on the trans. however, i'm sure the ECM is programmed to realize when the vehicle is in 4 low and will therefore compensate accordingly.
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 11:30 AM   #5 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 27966
Location: Metro Detroit Suburb
Posts: 35
I understand that I need a reluctor ring on the output shaft (Powertrain Control Module needs to see the shaft speed for shifting). Also planning on using the one on the T-case for the instrument cluster.

Thanks much for the advice...
__________________
Pessimism and The Big Bang: "In the Beginning, there was nothing... Which exploded."
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 12:50 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
that's interesting. i'm putting together a 4L60E with a 203 range box and a cruiser split case and the only sensor on there is the one on the split case.
hmmmmm?!
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 02:11 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 27966
Location: Metro Detroit Suburb
Posts: 35
I believe the descrepancy is in the 2wd vs 4wd. I have obtained a 4L60E from a 2wd vehicle (2001). I have heard that the output shaft for the 4wd is not the same. Can anyone verify?

thanks for the input
__________________
Pessimism and The Big Bang: "In the Beginning, there was nothing... Which exploded."
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 02:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Member # 6863
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,792
I am working on a friends 5.3L/4L60E swap and it uses the sensor in the tailhousing/adapter for the VSS. Low range on the t-case will screw up the shift points on the 4l60e if you dont have some way of telling the PCM it's in low, which would really be pretty simple, but then the low range of the stock GM setup would still need to match the Toyota case low range or it would still be off.

Back to the question at hand. I am working out the swap now, and the tranny was also a 2WD, took off the tailhousing, bolted on the 6 bolt to 4 bolt adapter and then the main adpater hounsing afterI removed the sleeve that rides on the slipyoke. and the stock GM reluctor gear was right where I needed it and the hole in the adapter for the pickup was right on. Just needed to shim the reluctor out a bit. this was for a split case, so not sure how much different the early adapter.
__________________
I have enough projects for the next decade. Need two?
cruiserbrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 02:36 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
absolutely.
the 2 wd output shaft is much longer and has the reluctor ring pressed onto it.
the 4 wd version is only about 10 inches long and does not use a reluctor ring. the rings are available seperatley from gm. as far as i can remember, they're less than $20.
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 03:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 27966
Location: Metro Detroit Suburb
Posts: 35
It's unfortunate that I don't have the split case, looks like it might have been a little easier.
I looked up the Powertrain Control schematic and there is an input to for tcase 4wd lo. The schematic shows it as a simple switch to ground from inside the case. If you're interested, the GM schematic calls it out as connector J2, cavity 16. The wire is gray with a black stripe (22 gage) wire. That may be the ticket for operation in 4lo. Specifically, I was looking at the schematic that is for the current generation GM truck (with the 5.3L engine), so this info would be incorrect if the powertrain is from a utility pre-2001 or pickup pre-1999. Wonder if it will work. Please let me know if it is successful.

probably saved me a good chunk of time later by bringing up the issue now, thanks.
__________________
Pessimism and The Big Bang: "In the Beginning, there was nothing... Which exploded."
Sparks is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 03:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
mine is a 97 vortec 5.7 so the later schematic probably won't apply.
what case are you running? and which adapter?
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 03:30 PM   #12 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 6208
Location: north slo county, Calif.
Posts: 374
Why are you trying to pull off that 2wd gear, Our adapter kit uses that stock 2wd gear. The adapter we currently use is a Marks' adapter (51-8900- part of kit 50-0407) and Marks drills their adapter so it works for all three tcases: 10,16,19. If you are using this adapter in conjuction with the 50-0405 (6 bolt to 4 bolt). You can plug off the first adapter as stated in a previous reply. If you need any instructions for the kits just let me know and I email you the instruction sheets in a pdf file. Or I'm at ext 530 If you want to go over the parts you ordered- Vic
slo-vic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 03:45 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Member # 6863
Location: San Diego
Posts: 2,792
If youare setting up the pre-t-case speed sensor the hi-lo deal with the t-case wont be an issue, as the PCM will think it is in hi all the time, which is what you want with the speed pickup before the t-case. Even if you wanted to get the PCM to acknowledge the low range and use a post t-case VSS, you would need to reprogram the PCM for the different low range. a change from 1.99 to 2.72 if a big jump, somehting like 35% off and I'll bet that causes some serious shifting issues. Also, Georg, I have no idea how you are going to deal with multiple low ranges and the PCM. Youll have 2.26:1, 2:1 and 4.52:1 low ranges that the PCM will have to deal with if you dont run the VSS of the tranny outputshaft.
__________________
I have enough projects for the next decade. Need two?
cruiserbrett is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 03:50 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
just some more stuff to ponder.
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-01-2004, 04:37 PM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
hey vic. any ideas? i'm using the AA adapter for the low range box.

thanks in advance.
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 09:09 AM   #16 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 6208
Location: north slo county, Calif.
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefj45
hey vic. any ideas? i'm using the AA adapter for the low range box.

thanks in advance.
At the last calroc event, I got an opportunity to drive a customer's/spectator's rig that had a 4l60e/Klune-V/Dana 300 combination. He used just the one sensor riding on the output of the transmission. His computer was a 2wd application. As stated in a previous post, the transmission thinks it is in high range all the time, so it just shifts based on RPM. According to the owner of the vehicle, It did take some time to find the proper shifting between the two units for best performance. I thought it drove pretty slick, and he seemed pleased with it.
slo-vic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 09:32 AM   #17 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
that makes sense. now how do i get a reluctor wheel setup and speed sensor on the 4wd 4L60E with the 203 rangebox behind it?
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 10:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 6208
Location: north slo county, Calif.
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefj45
that makes sense. now how do i get a reluctor wheel setup and speed sensor on the 4wd 4L60E with the 203 rangebox behind it?
It depends on what 4l60e you have. If you have the removable bellhousing version, you will have a 6 bolt pattern on the rear of the transmission. You can use the 50-0405 and 50-6900 output shaft. This will make your 4l60e look like a 4wd th350. You will reuse the th350 to np203 adapter plate
slo-vic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 10:50 AM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
first of all, thanks for all your help.
and my appologies for hijacking this thread.
my 4L60e is a 96, so it's the non removable bellhousing, with the 350 style rear bolt pattern. i bought the output shaft from AA to use the 203 rangebox behind it.
do i have to sandwich an adapter between the trans case and cast iron 203 adapter?
do i have to change output shafts again?
this truck is supposed to go to rubithon in 3 weeks if you catch my drift.
thanks again.
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 11:02 AM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2001
Member # 6208
Location: north slo county, Calif.
Posts: 374
Quote:
Originally Posted by orangefj45
first of all, thanks for all your help.
and my appologies for hijacking this thread.
my 4L60e is a 96, so it's the non removable bellhousing, with the 350 style rear bolt pattern. i bought the output shaft from AA to use the 203 rangebox behind it.
do i have to sandwich an adapter between the trans case and cast iron 203 adapter?
do i have to change output shafts again?
this truck is supposed to go to rubithon in 3 weeks if you catch my drift.
thanks again.
You need the stock adapter GM used to adapt the th350 to the np203. no other adapter. Your 4l60e has the same bolt pattern as a th350, bolts are metric though. You will also need kit 716073 for your speed sensor issue. You will need to drill your transmission case to install sensor. Here are some photos of what you need to do. Luckilly there is "dead space" in this area of the transmission, as this is where the govenor gear was located on the 700r4/4l60 non electronic version of the transmission
slo-vic is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 06-02-2004, 11:33 AM   #21 (permalink)
Registered User
 
orangefj45's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6816
Location: Fawk if I know
Posts: 15,416
thanks you so much.

that's one of the reasons i've been dealing with AA for over 10 years.

and once again, the PBB comes thru. goes to show that the $20 a year for the red star is a fawking bargain!!!!!!!!!!!
__________________
Maybe you outta stick to legos!
orangefj45 is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply





Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:22 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.6
Copyright ©2000 - 2014, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.