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Old 08-25-2004, 07:52 PM   #1 (permalink)
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2F Fuel Injection

Some of you may have read the post ( http://forum.ih8mud.com/showthread.php?t=21087) on MUD about the 2F fuel injection for the 2F.

The guys site is : http://www.customefis.com/

Only the guy who wrote the post recommened him ( no one said anything bad). I have had several e-mails with the vendor, but he is an unknown quantity. Anyone else deal with him?

Anyone have another option for Fuel Injection for less that $1K. His price was $965 to me for a full kit.

Wouldn't start something like this till winter, just want to know all the options.

Ken
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Old 08-25-2004, 09:34 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You can do this under $500...IMO it is a better unit. Because it is programmable unit .. you have many more options but the tech support is great ..a complete forum for immediate questions and help

Here is ECM.. with wiring harness and water and temp sensors. That is a great price BTW. $345
No HEI required.. just pull a tach signal from the coil. You need an 02 sensor provided by you.
4.3 TBI is best suited for the MS system ( I found 2 under $50 )
TBI to 2F intake adapter.. I used a plate adapter from Autozone ($15)
and flipped it upside down. ( pics available)
ECM
http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/ws/eB...tem=2479591791
Some are worried about a trail fix if the ecm went out. If it did go down. bolt on your old carb and go!

Here is the Forum

http://www.msefi.com/

Here are some real time users on Land Cruisers

http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=736
http://www.msefi.com/viewtopic.php?t=773

This fellow went multi point but suggested that TBI woould be better since Megasquirt is a batch fire which works great on a TBI

http://www.oatsoda.com/fuel_injection/

I help put one on a 84 BMW and replace the old Jetronic EFI ( MAF)
system and it works absolutely awsome. I have pictures if anyone is interested.

*discalaimer*
In light of everyone worried about yellow stars..I am not a vendor or sell any of this.. Its just FYI like it should be. I don't care who has a red/yellow star, I just like to share info/tech.
( happy now)?
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Old 08-26-2004, 12:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Wow $345. Thats a lot more affordable than tha 2K plus kits I saw. How hard is this set up to install? Is there any instructiond/write ups for the not so advanced mechanics?
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Old 08-26-2004, 07:10 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I have talked to and seen the product from customefis. I was not impressed and the only one I saw installed barely ran. This has been 2 years ago, the truck still isn't any better, but maybe the product is. I think part of the problem was getting a clean tach signal for the ECM from a stock ignition.

If Berg has the Megasquirt running, thats the first I have heard of guys around here using it. ZOG from the board may still have one for sale, he hadn't finished building it last I talked to him. I think he regrets not buy the pre assembled version.

Howell-Efi has complete* kits, all new parts, with PROM tuned for Cruisers. $1095 last I checked, you still need an adapter to the intake, air cleaner and the throttle cable.
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Old 08-26-2004, 07:35 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Here's a pic
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Old 08-26-2004, 08:31 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Berg
TBI to 2F intake adapter.. I used a plate adapter from Autozone ($15)
and flipped it upside down. ( pics available)
OK, Lets see some pictures, I am still undecided if I am going propane or efi. I had no idea anyone actually got a Mega Squirt system working properly on their 2F. Did you do a write up anywhere I can check out?
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Old 08-26-2004, 08:50 AM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGhost
Here's a pic
That is a nice brake/clutch master setup there!

countless people on DIY-EFI bought the unassembled Megasquirt kits and never put them together. Why not use a readily availible GM ECM? Tuning them is not that hard, and if you buy stuff from Howell or others, its not even a real issue.

$1095 is a great deal for the Howell stuff.
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Old 08-26-2004, 09:24 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by SpaceGhost
I have talked to and seen the product from customefis. I was not impressed and the only one I saw installed barely ran. This has been 2 years ago,
Howell-Efi has complete* kits, all new parts, with PROM tuned for Cruisers. $1095 last I checked, you still need an adapter to the intake, air cleaner and the throttle cable.
2 years ago I ( we) started building a Megasquirt fromthe info on the MS site . Pre assembled ready made kits were not available at the time. The $345 unit with senosrs and wiring harness is a good deal. MS is not a straight bolt on like the Howell. MS has some startup maps to get you up and running and there is a free program called Megatune that you download into your laptop and start driving, fast, idle ,slow , downhill, uphill etc. Megatune will datalog via the o2 sensor and tell you the rich/lean condition. That data can be transferred into your map .
It is somewhat complicated yet all the info and help is available through their bb.. I have a very knowledgable friend doing most of the work. I got involved to learn something new and as of yet do not have mine running on a 2F .
I'll post some pics this eve on the 2f intake ( rube-goldberg adapter) .
I have heard great things about the Howell and that they have great support.
If your not savy on tuning and don't have the time or the hassel. Sounds like Howell is the way to go.
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Old 08-26-2004, 12:42 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I bought an 84 FJ60 a few weeks ago that has a Megasquirt kit installed and running on it. The cold start program could use some help, but otherwise it runs like a dream.

I certainly can't say much more about it at this point, since I haven't even hooked up my laptop to see how all the mapping and data logging works, but so far I'm really liking it. Fires up every time as soon as you turn the key!

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Old 08-26-2004, 01:00 PM   #10 (permalink)
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not that complicated of setup if you use TBI...
missing from the diagram is the MAP sensor tube which is just a small vacuum line out of the ECM case to manifold Vac.

**Alex, can you post a couple picture if possible of ecm and adapter tbi..?

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Old 08-26-2004, 05:48 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Who all still sells tbi to 2F adapters?
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Old 08-26-2004, 05:58 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Berg, awesome, clear diagram, but where is the knock sensor?

Anybody: don't the GM 4.3 TBI kits for 2Fs now come with knock sensors used at the fuel pump block off plate? And is the 2F too noisy (valvetrain?) to prevent false knock signals? Does blueprinting and balancing a 2F solve this? I want a knock sensor to protect the rebuild I do before going EFI.

Last time I checked, MAF sells a GM TBI adapter for 2Fs that fits OEM AC.

Thanks in advance.
Walt

Last edited by 4x4Poet; 08-26-2004 at 07:07 PM. Reason: to answer missed post
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Old 08-26-2004, 06:41 PM   #13 (permalink)
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what about using or adapting a (gulp..) jeep injection?
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Old 08-26-2004, 07:54 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I know where a small number of .75 plate adapters are. Off line for details please. Haven't seen the MAF unit, but if you mean the Downey piece, they required you to buy the kit in the past.

Jeep adapters won't bolt up, but the kits made for 4.2 heaps are basically the same. The Prom would be the only difference, and how you connect the cable to it. Early (1968) cable accelerator pedals and cables are a bolt in/on for this.

Part of the battle is deciding if you want to control the ignition with the ecm. Howell's kit DOES NOT. Second issue is a good clean tach signal. This is with the GM 1227-747 Ecm, guessing the Megasquirt doesn't have this issue. Howell's kit at $1095, add an adapter, cable and pedal if ya need it, and an air box, your still around $1300, and it WILL work.

Mine is 2 years old, after trying different carbs, including a weber (hahahaha) it is the single best engine related mod I have done.
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Old 08-26-2004, 08:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 4x4Poet
Berg, awesome, clear diagram, but where is the knock sensor?

Anybody: don't the GM 4.3 TBI kits for 2Fs now come with knock sensors used at the fuel pump block off plate? And is the 2F too noisy (valvetrain?) to prevent false knock signals? Does blueprinting and balancing a 2F solve this? I want a knock sensor to protect the rebuild I do before going EFI.

Last time I checked, MAF sells a GM TBI adapter for 2Fs that fits OEM AC.

Thanks in advance.
Walt
No knock sensor needed if you're not controlling timing.
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Old 08-26-2004, 08:27 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Several folks mentioned not getting good timing signals? I am guessing you're talking about not converting to ECM control of timing... I modded my dist to use the GM ignition module and coil and it runs great, cold or hot...

I haven't tried hooking up a knock sensor, so I don't let the ECM get into highway mode (min MPH is set pretty high), so it won't lean out too bad. I'm probably going to try the fuel-block-off knock sensor setup and see how it works out. Burning EEPROMs for GM computers is super-simple, and the software (TunerCat and WinALDL) make specific tuning a hell of a lot simpler than it used to be...

Let me know if you need any more info!
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Old 08-26-2004, 09:20 PM   #17 (permalink)
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The adapter that Berg is using is an adapter for a carb that is usually used to adapt a 2 barrell carb to a 4 barrell intake. He just flipped it upside down and it bolts up pretty slick. It could probably be ground down some to take off the sharp corners for better air flow. They only cost about $10 at any parts place.

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Old 08-26-2004, 10:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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I think it was a 4bbl to 2bbl rochester adaper I flipped upside down . I had to cut off some excess material to allow manifold bolts to be accessed.Also used a 3/4 spacer.......total booty fab ... I will buy an adapter if available.
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