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Old 01-07-2005, 06:59 AM   #1 (permalink)
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knuckle swap issue

Not hard core tech, but this is just pissing me off at this point.

1978 fj55 disk knuckles, 1972 housing. Knuckle rebuild kit from a vendor on the board. Everything fit well, bearings, races, etc.

The problem is that the brass looking hub seal (holds on the backing plate and spindle) is too small to go around the hub body. With everything dissasembled it still does not go around it.

Do I have the wrong one?
Is there a difference?

Am I just incompetant? (this is where my money is.)

Can I put a slit in it to make it fit? Seems to me that if it is that tight, it is just going to burn up when the wheel moves.

Anyone else ran into this?
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Old 01-07-2005, 07:25 AM   #2 (permalink)
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this one.
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Old 01-07-2005, 08:26 AM   #3 (permalink)
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they always fit tight...i usually put new ones around an extra hub body for a week or two and make sure they're warm when i put them on (IF i put them on)
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Old 01-07-2005, 08:26 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Sounds like the vendor swapped in an early drum brake hub seal. That seal is smaller dia., but more beefy than the disk brake hub seal.....
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Old 01-07-2005, 08:52 AM   #5 (permalink)
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That sounds right. This thing is pretty stiff. Of course I am doing it in 10 degrees...

no heat in my shop.

I brought it inside last night and tried to slip in on this morning, no dice. Too small.

I can run without it for now?
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:25 AM   #6 (permalink)
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What is the ID (inside dimension) of your dust seal?

Ditto what Ige said, they will be tight on install, especially in cold weather.
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:47 AM   #7 (permalink)
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If by tight you mean "no way is this going on with all the force I can muster", then yes!

Did not try to crank down on it using the bearing nuts, but I have thought about it.


I can measure the diam. tonight.
Can I run the old one with no seal? The seal came out as a seperate piece.
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Old 01-07-2005, 09:53 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rabid
...I can measure the diam. tonight.
Can I run the old one with no seal? The seal came out as a seperate piece.

No, thats a drum brake one. If your seal looks like the one above, then it is a disc brake one... the only mishap could be on the manufacture but I have never heard of one being unusable. Where did you get the kit?
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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The kits and seals or at least the one pointed to in the pic that we use or even have disassembled from old cruisers have always been seperate halves of metal with a solid rubber piece and a solid felt piece that is tight but streches over the ball.I found the felt harder than the rubber piece as far as not fing it up. Confusing ? when you said would not fit over hub.
You put the stuff on before you put knuckle on .
Take a hack saw or thin cut off and make two pieces and I would put the 1 piece rubber wiper in too cause the felt pulls outa those old ones .
What does not make sense is that kit seems to have old wipers but do the spindle gaskets match , should not if it is for the drum axle ?
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:11 AM   #10 (permalink)
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You got the right rubber pieces , I looked again , but I can tell by the shims that that kit is for small bolt pattern for the knuckles which would indicate drum stuff but a few I've seen from , mid , 70's had disc's with a different bolt pattern for the steering arms than the common mini disc knuckle . Maybe the 55 had discs with the small bolt pattern which is why the kit would be for the older stuff.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:22 AM   #11 (permalink)
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I can't remember where I got the kit. I have been on a parts buying rampage.
Maybe liquid off road? Maybe cruiser outfitters?


It came with both size shim packs, so that does not help.

peesalot- you are thinking of the axle side kit. This retainer holds on the spindle and backing plate. The axle side kit came as two pieces.

I need to move the truck tomorrow. If this does not work, I will have to run without it, or cut slits in it to make it fit.

Seems like it is close, but it just does NOT go on. Since I am swapping from drum to disk, the only spare knuckles I have are off a drum brake end.
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Old 01-07-2005, 11:24 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I think I got the kit at liquid off road, who has been pretty good to me thus far.

It is definately the disc kit.

Can I run without the wiper?
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Old 01-07-2005, 12:16 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You can definitely assemble and move the truck without the seal. What really worries me here is this comment:

Quote:
Did not try to crank down on it using the bearing nuts, but I have thought about it.
This makes me wonder if you have assembled the parts in the right order. If the spindle is pushed onto the hub housing, and the backing plate is pushed onto the spindle, then the center of the backing plate will take up the entire lip on the spindle, and the dust seal should be extremely loose and sloppy, not requiring 'cranking' to get it to seat on ANYTHING!

Of course I'd rather believe that you just have your terminology wrong. When in doubt, I generally recommend contacting the vendor you purchased the parts from for advise.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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I guess I could explain myself better.

I was talking about the wheel bearing retaining nut. It (the rotor/hub) slides on just far enough to get the nut on. Just not fully seating, as it can't get past that part.

AFAIK, it is assembled correctly.
The seal is seated fine to the backing plate, just the hub can't get through it.
It is sitting in my warm house right now. We will see tonight.
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Old 01-07-2005, 02:51 PM   #15 (permalink)
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looks like this right now.

Just can't slide on the hub assy.
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Old 01-07-2005, 04:42 PM   #16 (permalink)
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I'm with ya now rapid . I had same issue when doing by bolt on disc brakes to my drum axle. The bracket for the calipers was thicker than old backing plate so it moved the wiper outboard causing it to hit hub so I deleted the wipers and packed the little cavity with heavy ( old school yellow axle grease) grease to keep shit outa the seal in back of hub.
If it don't fit it is for the smaller spindels and hubs ( drum stuff )
I would not use the spindle nuts to press the hub thru the wiper , it should just rub on the shoulder on back of hub.
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Old 01-07-2005, 05:41 PM   #17 (permalink)
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You might have tried this:
Will the seal fit over the hub when the hub is not on the spindle and the seal is not attached?

The inner wheel bearing sometimes does not want to go onto the spindle and mimics the effect of the seal not going around the hub.
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Old 01-08-2005, 09:38 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peesalot
...deleted the wipers and packed the little cavity with heavy ( old school yellow axle grease) grease to keep shit outa the seal in back of hub..
If you have the removable seal style... then it is DRUM brake... if you have the rubber seal one, it is disc brake... If you did a disc brake conversion, you should have used a disc one...
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Old 01-08-2005, 03:38 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I could not use either cause the thickness of the caliper bracket caused the seal ring to interferewith back of hub.I thought about modifying it to work but was in a hurry and only had old ones anyway. I will get some disc ones and see if they fit thanks for the info.
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Old 01-08-2005, 04:37 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by peesalot
I could not use either cause the thickness of the caliper bracket caused the seal ring to interferewith back of hub.I thought about modifying it to work but was in a hurry and only had old ones anyway. I will get some disc ones and see if they fit thanks for the info.
Caliper bracket... I'm assuming your using some kind of aftermarket disc brake kit?

When using Toyota parts, the hub dust seal should fit without a problem... if using aftermarket parts, I would chat with the manufacture about why their kit doesn't have provisions for a needed dust seal. I will post up the specs (inside diameters) of the disc/drum hub seals in a couple minutes...
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Old 01-08-2005, 05:30 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Someone correct me if im wrong. But the only drum hub seals that I have worked with all came with just a felt packing that you put in the metal ring.

Did they come up with a new seal for the drum hub like a disc one?
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Old 01-08-2005, 05:45 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toploader
Someone correct me if im wrong. But the only drum hub seals that I have worked with all came with just a felt packing that you put in the metal ring.

Did they come up with a new seal for the drum hub like a disc one?
Hey Mark,
You'r right on the felt and the metal ring for the back of the knuckle.I also think either felts would work.
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Old 01-08-2005, 05:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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(foghorn voice)No No No boy.....yah got me all wrong. Bout a sharp as a bowlin ball!(foghorn voice off)
I do mean for the hub itself. Not the wiper felt on the ball of the axle.
All the DISC brake hubs that I have done, have that metal ring with a rubber lip that bolts onto the spindle bolts, like rabid posted.
The DRUM ones were a metal ring with a grove for a felt packing that you could pull out and replace.

Quote:
Originally Posted by teapot
Hey Mark,
You'r right on the felt and the metal ring for the back of the knuckle.I also think either felts would work.
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:07 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Now i know what your talking about .Maybe i should read all the replies on the post and not a selected few.Thanks for reminding me by saying "keep your eye on the ball"and not the space in between.
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Old 01-08-2005, 08:29 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by toploader
..All the DISC brake hubs that I have done, have that metal ring with a rubber lip that bolts onto the spindle bolts...
Yes....

Just as I stated...

If you have the removable seal style... then it is DRUM brake... if you have the rubber seal one, it is disc brake...



I forgot to measure those ID's... tomorrow...
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