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Old 02-15-2008, 10:19 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Anyone running FI on a 2F?

I'm seriously considering dumping the carb and going to FI. However, it looks like a complete kit is about 1500.. http://www.affordable-fuel-injection...Fuel+Injection

I know there are people who gathered a lot of this stuff on their own, and I've searched mud and found differing opinions on these setups... What say ya'll?
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:30 AM   #2 (permalink)
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Ross:

Doesn't Tom Q have a TBI set-up on one of his Cruisers? I would surmise that the TBI set-up of a Chebby 4.3 V6 would be the ticket. BTW, I know someone real close to home who has experience modifying stock harnesses, although he does complain alot about doing it. You would prolly need to get the chip re-flashed.

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Old 02-15-2008, 10:48 AM   #3 (permalink)
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yup -- checked Tom's site already.

There are a lot of vendors out there, and I'm more of a buy it off the shelf than a hack it together kind of guy... but there are obviusly different ways to go.

Yes, most of the TBI's use the 4.3 tbi, and not the 2.8 tbi
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:18 PM   #4 (permalink)
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$1500 seems like crazy talk to me! Pro-jection is only like $700, and there's a few other simular brands out there that go for close to the same.
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Old 02-15-2008, 01:51 PM   #5 (permalink)
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For $1420, you get everything. Including a TBI HEI dist (ECM controlled advance).

Complete System Prices: (Buy Now)
with 4 barrel adapter $1345
with 2 barrel adapter $1420


Included with Complete System
ECM (production GM unit)
Custom calibration chip for your specific application
TBI Unit Includes TPS and IAC control
Flow Matched Fuel Injectors
Custom built wiring harness for your vehicle
HEI EFI Distributor (Full spark and fuel control)
TBI adapter gasket and hardware
ECT, MAP & O2 sensor
External Fuel pump with relay
Power relay
Check engine indicator
Installation instructions
Tech support
Many miles of low maintenance fuel injection operation

Looks like about $400 for the TBI HEI... I have a non tbi HEI right now.

Not sure what else you need to buy with the projection system.
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Old 02-15-2008, 02:24 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Ross- I have no experience with their TBI kits- but I do have a TPI kit of their's for my Small Block. The information manual is stellar, the questions I've had have been answered promptly by the factory and the execution of the equipment is great.

As a company, I can recommend them whole-heartedly! For specific info on the TBI kits, I don't know.

Luke
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:07 PM   #7 (permalink)
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what about doing a 2FE?!
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
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what about doing a 2FE?!
??? Is that the 3FE injection on a 2F?

Dunno --- interested ?
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Old 02-15-2008, 03:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
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yup, 3fe setup on a 2f block. a couple of mudders have done it and dan aka d'animal is doing one for his 45 x-cab pickup right now.


i know where there's a complete, cheap 3fe in norcal right now......
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Old 02-15-2008, 05:25 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Used to be ALOT of 2F TBI tech out there, Tom Quinn , Mike Smythe and others had a bunch and there were others really working on it. We did one for under $100 as part of my 1st year Engineering courses... that was 01' (man I'm old ). My partner machined the adapter, everything else was j-yard, seriously all of it. We used a modified Toyota late model dizzy for the pickup. Worked pretty darn good. I eventually bought the FJ60 it was on but he had already sold the TBI stuff and put a carb back on

I had planned to convert mine, I have everything, the Smythe adapter (better than the Downey IMO), the TBI unit, etc... Sitting in a box. I'm leaning more towards a 3FE or possibly putting a 4BT in it.

You can do the 3FE, if you have an later FJ40 with flat pistons. Lots of little issues to sort out, but very doable (and has been done with great results).
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Old 02-15-2008, 05:36 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I prefer the transmission adaptor kit that includes the entire GM TBI 350 engine. It comes with the TBI HEI distributor included for free. It is guaranteed to work right out of the box with off the shelf GM parts and without fiddling or pulling out your hair and it gives more power and less weight as a bonus. Putting all that stuff on a 2F is about as ridiculous as putting a racing saddle on a mule.
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Old 02-15-2008, 10:29 PM   #12 (permalink)
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That's some funny shit and true in mho


Quote:
Originally Posted by Pin Head View Post
I prefer the transmission adaptor kit that includes the entire GM TBI 350 engine. It comes with the TBI HEI distributor included for free. It is guaranteed to work right out of the box with off the shelf GM parts and without fiddling or pulling out your hair and it gives more power and less weight as a bonus. Putting all that stuff on a 2F is about as ridiculous as putting a racing saddle on a mule.
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Old 02-16-2008, 07:32 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Roger Taylor has Ron Patston's 2F with FI.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:22 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I prefer the transmission adaptor kit that includes the entire GM TBI 350 engine. It comes with the TBI HEI distributor included for free. It is guaranteed to work right out of the box with off the shelf GM parts and without fiddling or pulling out your hair and it gives more power and less weight as a bonus. Putting all that stuff on a 2F is about as ridiculous as putting a racing saddle on a mule.
X2... So true... I can't see spending $1500 for fuel injection on a 2F when you can buy a complete fuel injected SBC engine for that price.
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Old 02-16-2008, 09:27 AM   #15 (permalink)
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yeah, there's that. But, can you really pull off a v8 swap for $1500? I can't.
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Old 02-16-2008, 10:13 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Wooody-
I considered this a while back and exchanged a few pm's with a member of MTA that has on in his. Below is the just of it. So far I still have a Carb. If i had to rebuild my 2F again I would most likely install a 350. But since I am past that part I am working with what I have. I don't have the time to do V8 swap myself and the prices I was quoted including the motor when it was all said and done would be around $4-5K.

Originally Posted by petescoffee
Dave-
.

Would you go with the MAF kit again or assemble your own kit?
What other kits did you consider?

Hope all is well. Are you going on Rubithon this year?

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Dave,

Good to hear from you.

I haven't been doing much except working for the last two years. I haven't even started the LC since Christmas when I started it to change the oil.

I didn't buy the MAF kit, I went to Turbo City back in 2003. MAF didn't have their full kit available then. Turbo City was working with MAF, according to TC, MAF 'stole' the work that TC did and came out with their own kit.

Anyway, electronic fuel injection will require an electronic distributor, (yours 'may' work, I don't know), the new fuel pump, the throttle body and adapter, computer, bunch of wiring harness and sensors, new air cleaner, etc. A good bit of work.

As far as my experience, TC was very helpful on the phone with tech issues. They even helped me diagnose cracked ceramic on brand new spark plugs, that caused some real issues. I also borrowed a professional scanning tool from a mechanic friend, I would not have been able to diagnose the install without it.

The 2F is still a big chunk of iron that takes a while to warm up, so while it starts quickly, it still runs rough until it the coolant gets to about 162. I'm still needing to properly figure a way to overcome the strong spring pressure on the throttle body, makes it hard to do smooth take offs off road. I had the TPS fail, so now I suspect carrying a spare might be prudent. The air cleaner solution I did (K & N small diameter filter) I don't like too well, so a custom filter setup might be better. Lastly, I didn't get into the custom chip mapping, carry a laptop around, track data every 50 rpm change, etc. like I read about. I just used the chip the TC created for my setup. If I had a laptop and the interest in doing the work to develop a custom chip, I'm sure that there would be noticeable improvements in the drive ability. Maybe I'll win the lottery and need a complicated project to keep my brain busy someday, but now I don't hardly have time to do yard work and laundry!

I'm sure that there are better and easier setups available than I found 4 years ago. I think there's a tradeoff between price and simplicity that you'll have to decide for yourself. I'm OK with physical things that I can see and measure, but electrical and electronics are a little less 'real' to me, so I took the lazy way out and bought a kit that had complete harness, computer, chip, and no junkyard visits. I could have saved hundreds if I had been more willing and capable of doing some of the research myself.


I wonder now if I would bother doing it all again, if there were a simple, proven carb update that really worked well all around. I had done the Holley thing before, and it left something to be desired in steep angles off-road. I didn't think the Weber idea would ultimately be much better, so the trottle body injection seemed the right way to go.

Good luck with whatever you decide.
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Old 02-17-2008, 07:59 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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yeah, there's that. But, can you really pull off a v8 swap for $1500? I can't.
Highly unlikely unless you're able to source the parts cheap and do the work yourself.
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Old 02-17-2008, 11:57 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Ross, just a thought, try Luke at 4x4 labs. They have some info on diesel/veggie oil conversions and may have some good info on what you want.
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Old 02-18-2008, 09:26 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Some Info

Don't know if this will help, just something I came across investigating TBI. Figured it might give some insight, due to the 258 CI motors there working with. Would it be possible to go MPFI on the 2F? Don't know, as I run a SBC. Just trying to help. Tried to cut out a bunch of non relevant argueing in the post. HTH, Al



Binder Bulletin Forums > Special Interest Groups > InjectionTalk
Anyone running FI on a 2F? 258 EFI Conversion




I know nothing about aftermarket EFI other than how EFI works. Can anyone recomend a starter kit for my 258 6 ? Brand you like brand you hate threads that cover this topic? Im tired of waiting for my scout to warm up before I can drive it in the winter. I want to trun the key and go like my other 4 cars...
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258 EFI Conversion
A-Dave, I found this site and pass it to you as an FYI. I know nothing else to help, and realize I'll get flamed, so good luck.http://www.bustedjeep.com/projects/rebuild.asp
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:
Originally Posted by Architectdave View Post
I know nothing about aftermarket EFI other than how EFI works. Can anyone recomend a starter kit for my 258 6 ? Brand you like brand you hate threads that cover this topic? Im tired of waiting for my scout to warm up before I can drive it in the winter. I want to trun the key and go like my other 4 cars...
Dave, because the AMC 4.0 was offered with OEM MPI for so many years, the conversion is prevalent in the aftermarket and very well sorted out to the extent that Mopar Performance even offers a kit. TBI is an option as well, here's Jeff's info page: http://www.shopih.com/AFI-TBI-SYS-p-Fuel.html

You could certainly pursue either system as a DIY with some scrounging. I have a 4.0 MPI intake w/injectors if anyone's interested, just PM me



Default Re: 258 EFI Conversion
The best kit for a 258 IMO is the Mopar Direct/Connection port FI kit it can be had for as little as $1200. Complete easy to install and uses factory components so replacement parts are easy to find and figure out what you need.

You can also do a TBI kit but those are not that much less than the D/C port kit.

If you don't mind a DIY project you can get all the same components at the local wrecking yard to do either system. For the port system you want the stuff from a 94-95 jeep 4.0 I-6 the tbi uses parts from a late 80's-early90's GM 4.3 V-6. Details on the TBI can be found here, search jeep forums for details on the 4.0 port swap.
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Keep in mind that if you follow that link you will find a link right back here since I helped them figure it out!!!!
So why go anywhere else???
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Quote:
"Spend a fortune on an electronic ignition and on an electronic fuel injection system so you can turn the key, floor it when the engine is cold and roar off like "my other 4 cars" and cause maximum internal engine damage while i do so."
I kind of disagree with the basic idea here.

AFAIK the damage caused at start up is from the oil drain back leaving little film between the parts.
But once the motor is started it really doesn't make that much difference whether you drive it 5 sec or 30 sec.

So I don't see the logic in the 30 sec warm up.

Second, a DIY EFI is only about $300US!!
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258 EFI Conversion
I understand that what you are looking for is to loose the choke, puke, and die that happens with most carb vehicles untill they reach full operating temp.

Properly implemented the FI will eliminate that and if you chose the DIY method it will pay for itself. A 10% increase in mileage is low end of what to expect. When I installed the D/C kit on a customers 4.2 (258) Jeep he saw a increase of about 20%.

On a V- application with a dual plane manifold a twin injector TBI is almost as effecient as a port system and is usually much easier to implement. On I-6 applications the dramaticly different runner lengths mean that there is a greater difference in the effeciency and since the 258 & 4.0 are the same basic engine it is a simple install and the 5% increase in displacement is easily handled by the computers adaptive capacity.
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Default Re: 258 EFI Conversion
http://www.hesco.us/shop.asp?action=...025&catId=7974

http://www.quadratec.com/category/Fuel+Injection/67/

http://www.racetep.com/k9555.html

I'd fix the carbrutater, including some HOT air to the carb.
With 129,000+ miles of the 4.0FI under my right foot I cant say I'm pleased with it?
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