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Old 07-13-2002, 03:49 AM   #1 (permalink)
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1/2 welded rear

Hi,

[intro]
Right now it's raining, and my shop is almost the open-air type...
Anyway, I was thinking of a welded rear for my BJ40 BUT this is no trailer queen and I intend to drive it on-road (for long ways), too, because sometimes you just have to...
So... I don't really have the $$$ for an ARB, and I don't really like what I hear of the other options....
[/intro]

I'm considering a selectable welded rear.... err, I mean half-welded spider gears so that you can pull'em in and out without have to take apart the whole 3rd member. That way I'd squeeze my "spool" in for the trails, and throw my regular spiders in for the road...
Anybody done this already ? I'm thinking of welding and gusseting 2 spiders altogether each time, and grinding the teeth so that I can pull the parts out of the carrier for an easy swap.

so...
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Old 07-13-2002, 04:06 AM   #2 (permalink)
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I'm talking about building 2 parts like this...

Anybody want to give me a set of worn spider gears so that I can give it a try ?

Bye,
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Old 07-13-2002, 09:49 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Long time, no see.

Asked the same question some time ago, about the welded rear for on road driving.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showt...threadid=39131


How is your cruiser coming together?? Did you have your frame galvanized?? And what about your "neverdonebefore" power steering setup? Still very interested in how that will work out.

My Bj is almost complete (only a few more months ) the Lj70 disc brake swap was a bolt on, the cage is finally ready, just finishing up now, only big project ahead is to redo the wiring and the Fj60 power steering.

Was the manual the one that you were looking for?

Christof
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Old 07-13-2002, 09:51 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Front shot, I like the agressive look, too bad the fenders have to come back on.
Christof
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:33 PM   #5 (permalink)
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From what I've read the way to do it is to fill in some of the teeth on your spider gear. I don't think I would run it the way you've drawn it. Most who weld them, do it in 8 places, just doing 2 (assuming you would weld the back side as well) probably isn't enough. I welded one in 8 places, had no problems. My next one I'm going to try filling in some of the teeth on the spider gears.
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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you really should weld all 4 spider gears solid, keep them seperate from the case for removal, however i think even if you can make them easily removeable, it would get real tiresome swapping them everytime you go wheeling.
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:40 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Chris,

Of course the manual was the one I was looking for. Thanks again bro ! I haven't had time to scan it already, but you can probably understand that

Cruiserwise, not a lot of recent news. I won't galvanize the frame, but put an industrial 2-component primer same as the one they use on trains and machinery, then I will put a 2 component polyurethane paint, and then some kind of flexible rubber lining. The inside of the frame boxing will be filled up with wax.
The P/S setup is not done yet either, but I almost sold one kit already. I'll throw a complete writeup somwhere when I'm done.

But this is no answer to my welded concept question...

I'm happy to see your cruiser turns out nicely. Right now I'm pretty busy with the job and other stuff, but in 2 week's time I'll have nothing to do but work on the cruisers, so I guess and hope it will go FAST !!!

Later,
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Old 07-13-2002, 12:54 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Ken, each part would be welded and gusseted on both sides, which makes 4 welds total. As well as 4 gussets. I think it may not be dramatically weaker than just the 8 welds that are the usual method.
Plus my cruiser is not the typical rockcrawler you know.
80hp diesel B engine, 7.50X16 tires (for now)

As for the swap being bothering RHINO, I think it wouldn't be that terrible after you've done it a few times. And I didn't mean I'd swap the open in every time I hit the trails, or vice-versa. I'm talking about swapping the welded parts in for hard trails only, or use the open setup just for long highway move across the country...

Last point, I wasn't asking "the proper way to weld a rear diff", but submitting a new concept, which, I think could meet MY requirements, and make my cruiser and wheelings special...

I'm not here on earth to do just the same as everybody else, am I ?

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Old 07-13-2002, 06:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Nolen is gonna blast me for this, but we have no agreed before.
A lot of guys are running redneck welded spiders, the idea came from Arkansas.
You simply fill in on each the side gears, 3 teeth , opposite each other, then re install them.
We even did a set like this for some guy in Moab that blew up what ever he had in there, so he could keep wheelin and be locked.
Nick Stone drove his BJ from Texas, installed a set of these, wheeled, then pulled them back out for the return trip. (Moab)
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Old 07-13-2002, 06:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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I certainly won't blast you for that, but you must agree that the ones in our club that have had theirs done like this have run into serious wear problems.

I think that as much road use Denis is going to see, he would be better off welding his solid versus having the "slip" he is looking for.

Does this method work? Hell yes!

Does it have an advantage? Sure, if you want to pull them in and out as you please, this is the way to go. Frankly, for the trouble it would be to pull these in and out, I would spend $250 on a lock right or better yet, get a used one like I did for Wilbur for $150

I personally don't see any problem welding the spiders solid, allowing no play. The little bit of play you will get from the method above is not much...just enough to crash into themselves repeatedly causing damage over time.
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Old 07-14-2002, 03:42 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Denis, if I understand what you're saying, you plan on grinding the teeth off of the gears to make it easier to remove. If you did this then the two sides would not engage each other. That would put all the load on the center pin. I think it would the first time you gassed it in a corner. But I could be wrong.

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Old 07-14-2002, 04:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Friend of mine races speedway. He and the people he races with use welded diffs. Usually they weld them as described above, but they also fill the diff with molten lead. Apparently it makes them tougher. I get a photo next time Im at his place.
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Old 07-14-2002, 03:02 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Seems to me that adding metal scraps or molten lead into the open space would run the risk of making the carrier unbalanced and lead to wear or vibration, possibly mess up the R&P pattern?


Nolen, with the fill-3-gears method, where is the major wear occuring?


Matt
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Old 07-14-2002, 04:21 PM   #14 (permalink)
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dude, i welded mine solid, and even with a diesel it still broke, and it kept spitting welds

weld it solid or dont bother IMO, cause the play will smash your spiders to pieces......
if you lived near me, id give you some spiders to try!

what about get a spare diff and try welding him solid.... install that and see what you think

the wear factor will be okay with those little tyres......

also the welded wears tyres a bit faster, but i sorta liked it on the street
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Old 07-14-2002, 05:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Hey BJ, ever thought that maybe it was the welder's fault?



If you have a whole spare diff, you would have the swap the ring gear between them, might get tedious....

Matt
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Old 07-14-2002, 05:28 PM   #16 (permalink)
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denis i wasnt tryin to tell you how to weld them, rather i would think it would be a PITA to swap them in and out, if it was me i would weld it solid, or as nolen said, get a locker, i too am trying to get a $150 lock rite just like nolen, but i cant seem to get an answer from macgyver, which is who i have been trying to buy it from for a couple months now. if anyone talks to him tell him to e-mail me.
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:06 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Rhino, Yes the lockrite would be an option, but I'm in France and there are no dealer for it, nor used units available for cheap. Plus if I need to replace it it could take months...

Dan, your point is interesting, but to me it seems the stress is always limited to the grip you have on the ground. Thus, the pin would not suffer that much in my opinion. If that thing can handle wide 35s, it will hopefully accomodate my skinny 32s.
In my case the load it will have to cope with will not be higher than the load that would cause the tires to slip off the ground, even if the pin has the differential stress a full solid would take... It will just not be the same load on both ends ?

Rob, thanks for your offer. In fact it's not 100% impossible I could come to work on a nickel ore island nearby in the ocean maybe, in which case I would be more than happy to pay you a visit and collect my gears

Bye,
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:19 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Hey Denis,

My wife and I are coming to France next spring for vacation, if you loan me your Cruiser to drive while I am over there, I will bring you a lock right!
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:28 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Hey Nolen, bring me a lock rite and you can use my cruiser for a while, or even better, bring me some of those unbreakable longfields and you can drive it as long as you want

Christof

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Old 07-15-2002, 01:28 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by wngrog
Hey Denis,

My wife and I are coming to France next spring for vacation, if you loan me your Cruiser to drive while I am over there, I will bring you a lock right!
Nolen, please keep me updated with this please. I would be more than happy to meet you and have some fun with the TOY. We french will shouw you how we get it. You may also have test drives in :
- my dad's KZJ90
- my buddy's LJ70
- my buddy's HJ61
- my buddy's HDJ80
- my buddy's HZJ78
Though all this would be tough to arrange... but Hey there's already a little toyota gathering to be held in may, and it should be quite nice and friendly...

Can I have my lockrite NOW ?

(by that time and if I find a $$$ job (which I probably will) I'l have swapped in 60 axles with real factory lockers ... but you're still welcome man.)

Bye,
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:36 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by Diesel_Cruiser
Hey Nolen, bring me a lock rite and you can use my cruiser for a while, or even better, bring me some of those unbreakable longfields and you can drive it as long as you want

Christof
He will put it in a container and ship it home, dude.
Will you give me you longfields, then, you won't have a cruiser to throw them in anyway

Heck, he asked ME not YOU...
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Old 07-15-2002, 01:58 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by denis


He will put it in a container and ship it home, dude.
Will you give me you longfields, then, you won't have a cruiser to throw them in anyway

Heck, he asked ME not YOU...
Can't blame a guy for trying!!

christof
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