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Old 11-22-2009, 10:59 AM   #151 (permalink)
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Thanks for all the great detail. Very informative.
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Old 11-23-2009, 03:34 PM   #152 (permalink)
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It's the little things that drive you nuts!

Got the flywheel for the 5.3 last Friday. Just love what is stenciled on it, "Engineered in USA - Made in China"

Unloaded the Vortec from the engine stand to install the flywheel and clutch. My 5.3 had an automatic behind it, so the bolts holding the flex plate on the crank were too short for the flywheel. So I went out to get some flywheel bolts. After going to Napa and a couple of other parts stores, I finally went to the chevy dealer here in town. This is what I found out about vortec engines and manual transmissions. The V8 Vortecs came in 4.8, 5.3, 5.7, and 6.0 sizes, which can vary from year to year based on the model. Apparently, the 5.3 Vortecs did not come with a manual transmission option. To get the correct flywheel bolts for a 5.3, the bolts from a 4.8 Vortec must be used. 5.7 bolts will not work, per the dealer's parts guy. So, six, 4.8 Vortec, 11mm, bolts are needed at $6 each Which are now on order. See pic below for part #

If anyone knows of another source for them, let me know.

UPDATE: This flywheel will not fit any vortec motor. This is a standard 350 flywheel which has a completely different bolt pattern than a vortec.
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Last edited by cardinal fang; 11-28-2009 at 05:25 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 06:51 PM   #153 (permalink)
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:06 PM   #154 (permalink)
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Good info!

Did you buy your flywheel from AA? What is the difference between a flywheel and a cast flywheel?

The cabinets look great too. Now back to the cruiser project!
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:17 PM   #155 (permalink)
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Damn! I was reading this over again and I found this...

I ordered the new fly wheel to go behind the Vortec. It will arrive early next week. My Vortec came out of a 1999, GMC, Sierra, so I ordered a fly wheel for that vehicle. Got it from 'autopartswarehouse.com' ~$100. The clutch and pressure plate I plan to get locally.

Sorry for the dumb questions. Every time I read this, I find new detailed information. Thanks again for sharing!

Andy
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Old 11-23-2009, 08:32 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Cardinal,

Can you measure the length of the 4.8 bolts? ARP shows they have bolts and I want to make sure they are the right length.

The ARP book shows bolt for a flywheel on a Gen III:

UHL Thread size Pro-series

.880 M11 x 1.5 330-2802

Andy
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:17 PM   #157 (permalink)
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The flexplate bolts are 23mm long
The flywheel bolts are 27mm long, but they also have a small tin ring just above the threads. (see pic)

Jegs and Summitt sells the generic type, along with autopartswarehose.com. ~20.
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Last edited by cardinal fang; 11-23-2009 at 11:19 PM.
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Old 11-23-2009, 11:21 PM   #158 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awp_cruiser View Post
Cardinal,

Can you measure the length of the 4.8 bolts? ARP shows they have bolts and I want to make sure they are the right length.

The ARP book shows bolt for a flywheel on a Gen III:

UHL Thread size Pro-series

.880 M11 x 1.5 330-2802

Andy
Looks like the correct ones. $$??
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Old 11-24-2009, 03:52 PM   #159 (permalink)
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GM PART # 12563533
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 1
GM LIST: $6.86
OUR PRICE: $4.06

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com
Just watch the shipping charges! Thats were they get you!
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Old 11-24-2009, 07:31 PM   #160 (permalink)
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I found them at summit.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-330-2802/

about $4.50 per bolt.
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Old 11-25-2009, 04:56 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Bo185 View Post
GM PART # 12563533
CATEGORY: All
PACK QTY: 1
GM LIST: $6.86
OUR PRICE: $4.06

http://www.gmpartsdirect.com
Just watch the shipping charges! Thats were they get you!
A little more research reveals that the bolts I got at the dealer, and Bo185 lists, are the bolts to hold the flex plate on the crank with the 0.40 spacer between them. Now, that confuses me. Will they work to hold the flywheel on the crank? I don't know. Another question, can that spacer be used with a flywheel? If so, I am pretty sure those bolts will not be long enough to go through the flywheel and the spacer into the crank. ??

The flywheel I got from autopartswharehouse.com, does not work with any kind of Vortec engine, period. Not even close

As Bo185 has pointed out in other threads, the 5.3 Vortec was never fitted with a manual transmission. For the 1999 year, the 4.8 and 6.0 came with a manual tranny. So now I am wonder which flywheel to get? Will the 4.8 flywheel have the correct bolt pattern for a non Vortec clutch and pressure plate? Do I really have to spend $700 on AA kit?

Last edited by cardinal fang; 11-25-2009 at 05:00 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 05:01 PM   #162 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by awp_cruiser View Post
I found them at summit.

http://www.summitracing.com/parts/ARP-330-2802/

about $4.50 per bolt.
Let us know if those ARP bolts worked?
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:11 PM   #163 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal fang View Post
A little more research reveals that the bolts I got at the dealer, and Bo185 lists, are the bolts to hold the flex plate on the crank with the 0.40 spacer between them. Now, that confuses me. Will they work to hold the flywheel on the crank? I don't know. Another question, can that spacer be used with a flywheel? If so, I am pretty sure those bolts will not be long enough to go through the flywheel and the spacer into the crank. ??
Not being 100% sure as I have only dealt with the autos.
It should work with the flywheel and spacer. I believe you have to use the spacer on the 5.3L, with the flywheel, b/c of the shorter crank.


Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal fang View Post
As Bo185 has pointed out in other threads, the 5.3 Vortec was never fitted with a manual transmission. For the 1999 year, the 4.8 and 6.0 came with a manual tranny. So now I am wonder which flywheel to get? Will the 4.8 flywheel have the correct bolt pattern for a non Vortec clutch and pressure plate? Do I really have to spend $700 on AA kit?
The 4.8 had the NV3500 for several years till 2004 IIR. The 6.0L had the NV4500 till about the same year.

  • You need the crank spacer (although it may come on the Flywheel already)
  • . special pilot bearing is required (GM PN 12557583) to make up for the 0.400" shorter crank offset.
  • Need to get Gen III flywheel (GM PN 12561680) and clutch/pressure plate. Apparently the flywheels are the same for all Gen III-engined Chevy trucks with a manual transmission (NV4500 or NV3550)

Now why couldn't you use the flywheel and pressure plate for one of those Then the clutch disc for SM465 you have.
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Last edited by Bo185; 11-25-2009 at 07:14 PM.
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Old 11-25-2009, 07:52 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Bo185, do you have the #for the spacer?
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Old 11-26-2009, 08:45 AM   #165 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by cardinal fang View Post
Bo185, do you have the #for the spacer?
Its in my info thread.

Spacer from GM parts direct or local dealer
GM PART # 12563532
CATEGORY: Engine Flywheel
PACK QTY: 1
CORE CHARGE: $0.00
GM LIST: $52.86
OUR PRICE: $31.34

Should work with the flywheel. Note: put it on the crank then the flywheel.
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Last edited by Bo185; 11-26-2009 at 08:47 AM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:32 AM   #166 (permalink)
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According to this site, you have the right bolts and Bo185 has the right spacer pn and it goes so far to say that those bolts are for that spacer.

http://www.rebuiltautoengines.com/ch...-articles.html

I am curious what is the difference between the old style flywheel and the new? From the varoius pics I saw they looked similar.

Andy
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Old 11-26-2009, 10:56 AM   #167 (permalink)
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Great source! Thanks to both of you.
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Old 11-26-2009, 11:21 AM   #168 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Not being 100% sure as I have only dealt with the autos....snip...
Now why couldn't you use the flywheel and pressure plate for one of those Then the clutch disc for SM465 you have.
Bill,
I just went through this recently when trying to figure out the best way to put my sm420 behind my 5.3 vortec. You already know about the 0.400 inch difference between a gen1 and genIII crankshaft flange.



I originally planned to use the spacer and genIII flywheel and clutch, but ultimately decided against it because I could not confirm whether there is sufficient clearance for the clutch with an older bellhousing and release arm. What I found out is that the genIII clutch stands about 1 inch taller than the old gen1 clutch.
You can run a genIII flywheel without the spacer, but you will still be 0.600 inches too tall (1 in. taller clutch - 0.400 in spacer = 0.600).
Some threads here on pirate suggest using a spacer, the genIII flywheel and older gen1 clutch components. The measurements will all work out correctly, and the gen1 clutch has the same bolt pattern as the vortec, so I think that is why some people get away with it. But there is one additional problem that can cause issues. The genIII flywheels use dowel pins to locate the clutch and therefore have fully threaded 11mm bolts to attach the clutch. The gen1 clutch is centered using shouldered 3/8 inch bolts, so the gen1 flywheel is counterbored for the shouldered bolts. If you try to bolt the gen1 pressure plate to the genIII flywheel using the fully threaded 11mm bolts you can get misalignment of the clutch and flywheel. It probably wouldn't cause problems right away or if you are running a trailered buggy, but I wouldn't want to have that setup on a daily driver.
Shouldered bolt and counterbored gen1 flywheel:


What I decided to use is the McLeod conversion flywheel described in this Car Craft article:
http://www.carcraft.com/techarticles...n_3/index.html
It is pretty pricey, but still cheaper than the AA setup and you are not required to use the smaller, custom centerforce clutch.

The McLeod flywheel is offset the 0.400 inches and is drilled for both the gen1 and genIII clutch patterns. It bolts up with the stock vortec flywheel bolts and then the gen1 clutch components all fit as if it were a gen1 engine. You will need an extended pilot bushing just as you would for any other solution.

Here is the combination I used:

McCleod Conversion Flywheel #460535 ~$400
McCleod extended pilot bushing #8617 ~$36
Luk 12" clutch kit for sm420 #04-064 ~$90 (You would need the equivalent for the sm465 - might be the same, call georg to find out for sure)

I used a bellhousing from a 1961 C10 pickup because it has the smaller bearing retainer bore for the sm420 and uses a hydraulic clutch on the passenger side just like my original land cruiser bell did. I'm hoping this will make running the exhaust down the drivers side a bit easier.

Hope this helps.
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Last edited by Shipwreck; 11-26-2009 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 11-26-2009, 02:01 PM   #169 (permalink)
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Wow! Great solution. Thanks
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Old 11-26-2009, 05:11 PM   #170 (permalink)
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(Not having a clue on manuals, humor me) Whats wrong with the NV4500 vs SM465? Price, gear ratios? Not that I ever would run one! haha
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:22 AM   #171 (permalink)
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(Not having a clue on manuals, humor me) Whats wrong with the NV4500 vs SM465? Price, gear ratios? Not that I ever would run one! haha
Nothing wrong with the NV4500. The rear mounted shifter cane actually makes placement of the V8 easier in the cruiser. And it does have the 5th gear overdrive.
However the NV4500 is very long. It makes adding a doubler such as Marlin's Toybox, NP203-205, or AA Rocbox nearly impossible in an FJ40. It is also very expensive compared to the sm465 and is arguably weaker than the GM 4 speeds.
hmmm... same downsides that an automatic has.
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Old 11-27-2009, 10:40 AM   #172 (permalink)
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The 465 does not have an overdrive, nor does its predecessor the sm420. The 4500 does. The chevy 465 tranny replaced the chevy sm420 tranny in 1968. The sm420 did not have a syncro 1st gear, as does the 465. The sm420 gets 70/1 gear ratio in granny gear with a stock LC transfer case. The sm465 provides a ~60/1 gear ratio with a LC transfer case.
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Old 12-04-2009, 06:44 PM   #173 (permalink)
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taking it apart

Well, it has been a good relationship over the past 10 years, but it is time to move up in technology, good bye old F2.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:01 PM   #174 (permalink)
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Flywheel and clutch solution.

Thanks to 'Logic2" off of Ih8mud. He tracked down the part number for the flyhweel he got from Summit that fits the LS cranks and has both SAE and metric bolt holes. So old school clutches will fit the flywheel.

The fly wheel is a RAM 1550, Summit's #1550. Jeg's has it also for the same price. Ebay too, $259 - all have handleing charge, $13

It fits my 2000 Sierra 5.3 crank perfect. See pics below. I used the bolts from the chevy dealer to attach it to the crank. The bolts take a 15mm head socket. With the flyhwheel attached, the bolt holes in the crank are 1.245" deep. The torque for the bolts, per the Sierra manual I got, is are 15-37-74

I wrote up the costs of various ways to get a flywheel on a 5.3 vortec. This may help someone trying to figure out wich way to go.

Manual transmission 5.3 vortec
AA setup
This custom clutch kit is designed to adapt the Gen III / LS series to a GM manual transmission (SM420, SM465, NV4500) into a Land Cruiser FJ40. The kit includes:
A custom flywheel, with the correct 0.40 offset
11mm flywheel bolts,
11” Centerforce pressure plate & disc,
pilot bushing spacer,
throw-out bearing,
10mm bellhousing bolts,
10mm lock washers,
XRP dowel bolts
~Total: $621 + Tax + shipping ~$700

Do it yourself option
Stock OEM flywheel # 12561680, ~ $428, internet $300
Uses GenIII clutch assymb, ~$250, only fits the OEM flywheel, 1” taller than old school
OEM 0.400 spacer #, 12563532, ~$52, internet $40
Throwout bearing, SM465, ~$20
Pilot bearing, must use the extended one like the Mcleod, $36
~Total: $600 + tax – shipping?

Shipwreck’s solution
McLeod set, per Car Craft’s Article
McLeod Conversion Flywheel #460535 ~$400
McLeod extended pilot bushing #8617 ~$36
Luk 12" clutch kit for sm420 #04-064 ~$130 ??
~Total: $550 + tax – shipping

My solution
Logic2’s find on Summit for a flywheel, “Ram-1550”, $270, free shipping,
Luk 04-049 clutch kit, pressure plate, bearing, pilot bearing(can’t use), clutch disk, $130, Autozone
Special pilot bearing to fit the vortec crank, GM 12557583, ~$20
Flywheel bolts, ~$36-45
~Total: $500
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Last edited by cardinal fang; 12-05-2009 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 12-04-2009, 07:19 PM   #175 (permalink)
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ALL RIGHT BILL!!!!!!!

let the fun begin
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linking the rear
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