NV4500 in a FJ60

[Uncle Buck]

Thinking about a new 60 project and have a couple of very preliminary questions.

(1) Are there any compatability issues fitting a NV4500 tranny to a Vortec 350?

(2) What transfer case did GM use with the NV4500- I have looked all over for an answer to that question! (yes, I realize that would require a centered rear axle.)

(3) Lots of info about installing a SBC, but not so much on the tranny. Are there any specific fitting problems running a NV4500 in a 60? Any driveline length problems?

Thanks

[gavan]

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

Thinking about a new 60 project and have a couple of very preliminary questions.

(1) Are there any compatability issues fitting a NV4500 tranny to a Vortec 350?
GM offered the Vortec 350 with the NV, so it is just a matter of finding the proper bellhousing, flywheel and clutch. Just say you have a 96 k2500 350 with a 5 speed and any parts shop should be able to get you anything you need.


(2) What transfer case did GM use with the NV4500- I have looked all over for an answer to that question! (yes, I realize that would require a centered rear axle.)
Pick any GM round pattern 32 spline x-fer. 205, 203 (both a little rare with the round pattern 32 spline input, but they are out there.) NP 208, should be some 241 and 271s out there too. Dana 300 is an easy swap, that is the case I would look into. The GM cases are HUGE!


(3) Lots of info about installing a SBC, but not so much on the tranny. Are there any specific fitting problems running a NV4500 in a 60? Any driveline length problems?
No idea, but if my memory serves me correctly, there is not a huge difference in the NV4500 and Toy 4 speed cases in length. Probably plan on changing driveshaft lengths, but I would imagine thats about it.

Thanks

I have a NV4500 I am shoving in my 4BT CJ, and I shoved a couple into 40's...

[Uncle Buck]

Originally Posted by gavan

Dana 300 is an easy swap, that is the case I would look into.

I had looked at that; I know the Dana 300 bolts right up to a Dodge NV4500- but what's involved in fitting a Dodge pattern transmission to a Vortec?

[BellyDoc]

The Atlas 4-speed mates perfectly to the NV4500 tail housing with no adapter, if you bob the output shaft.

I've got an NV4500 with a GM input shaft, mated to a GM LS1 using an Advance Adapters bell housing and pilot bushing, and a Centerforce clutch. It's got a Dodge output shaft (29 spline) that's bobbed to the right length so that the input female on the Atlas plugs on directly with no coupler and no adapter plate.

I think that's about as short as you can make the power train if you're going to use the GM engine, an NV4500 and a doubler.

It's a long transmission. Working around it basically dictated most of the rest of my parts choices and design.

I ended up with an NV4500 with a buggy built around it.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

I had looked at that; I know the Dana 300 bolts right up to a Dodge NV4500- but what's involved in fitting a Dodge pattern transmission to a Vortec?

???

Not sure about the question here...

You can get a 23 spline output shaft for the Chevy NV4500, or you can get a 32 spline input for the D300. Either way I believe you need to bob the output shaft or add a 7/8th spacer to the end of the transmission. Even with a spacer the D300 should be shorter than any other transfercase you can get for the NV.


If you really wanted to bolt a Dodge NV4500 (they are kinda rare with a 23 spline output) to a Vortec, make sure you have a 96 or later bellhousing and slap on a Chevy 96 or later input and bearing retainer, everything should work just fine.

The 96 and later Chevy and all Dodge NV4500 transmissions are kinda like a big lego set. Just add the "bricks" (Input, bearing retainer, rear housing, mainshaft) you want to make what fits for you.

[BellyDoc]

Have you browsed Advance Adapters' website? It's extensive. They've got parts for all of this mix and match stuff.

The NV4500 gear box bolts up to the bellhousing with 4 bolts. There are two bolt rectangle patterns, IIRC, they are GM pattern and Dodge. They're the same width and the upper bolt holes are the same. The height of the lower holes is different between the two patterns. Advance Adapters makes 2 different NV4500 bellhousings for the Chevy V8 so they can fit either bolt pattern.

[gavan]

Originally Posted by BellyDoc

The NV4500 gear box bolts up to the bellhousing with 4 bolts. There are two bolt rectangle patterns, IIRC, they are GM pattern and Dodge.

The 2 bellhousing patterns:


95 - down Chevy
Dodge/96 up Chevy

The early Chevys have the slightly lower 1st gear and a different bellhousing pattern. The later Chevys have the same 1st as the Dodges and the same bellhousing pattern.

Unless you happen to have an early Chevy NV, I would look for a Dodge or Late chevy, many more options to mess around with.

[BellyDoc]

Gavan, you obviously know your NV4500's.

Was there some sort of common mechanical problem with the older ones? I remember hearing something about it when I first started looking.

[gavan]

I had to learn, I had a Chevy project NV4500 missing about half its bolts and horribly broken land in my lap

The biggest issue I have ever heard with the NV is the 5th gear nut. The Chevy design is a little different, and seems to be a bit better. BUT, the big culprit seems to be towing at low (>1900 RPM) RPM in OD with a Cummins. The current thought is the Cummins puts out a resonance through the mainshaft that backs off the nut.

The OP should be fine with a 350.

[Uncle Buck]

Originally Posted by gavan

You can get a 23 spline output shaft for the Chevy NV4500, or you can get a 32 spline input for the D300. Either way I believe you need to bob the output shaft or add a 7/8th spacer to the end of the transmission. Even with a spacer the D300 should be shorter than any other transfercase you can get for the NV....

The 96 and later Chevy and all Dodge NV4500 transmissions are kinda like a big lego set. Just add the "bricks" (Input, bearing retainer, rear housing, mainshaft) you want to make what fits for you.

Thanks for the guidance, with a little more search I found a couple of adapters that use a spacer ring and input gear adapters that will mate a GM NV4500 to a Dana 300 from Novak and JB Conversions.

Just to make sure I'm not missing something, a post-96 GM NV4500 should bolt right up to a Vortec SBC- correct?

[gavan]

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

Just to make sure I'm not missing something, a post-96 GM NV4500 should bolt right up to a Vortec SBC- correct?

As long as you have a SBC-late NV4500 bellhousing, yes. Should be somewhat available in junk yards.

[Uncle Buck]

Originally Posted by gavan

As long as you have a SBC-late NV4500 bellhousing, yes. Should be somewhat available in junk yards.

Just when I thought I had my arms around this and I start reading about interferance between the clutch fork and the front drive shaft.

When did GM switch over to a drivers-side drop on the front axle? Did they move the throwout fork to the passenger side of the transmission at the same time? What's involved in flipping the clutch hydraulics to the other side if I want to use a passenger-side drop tcase?

I'm really starting to appreciate what's involved in one of these swaps!

[gavan]

Originally Posted by Uncle Buck

Just when I thought I had my arms around this and I start reading about interferance between the clutch fork and the front drive shaft.

When did GM switch over to a drivers-side drop on the front axle? Did they move the throwout fork to the passenger side of the transmission at the same time? What's involved in flipping the clutch hydraulics to the other side if I want to use a passenger-side drop tcase?

I'm really starting to appreciate what's involved in one of these swaps!

Something will always be a pain. Chevy switched to driver drop in 88 for the 1500s, and 92 for the blazer/burb/3500 chassis. A 96+ 4500 should have a hydraulic throw out bearing, at least the 96 transmission I have has one. The easy way to tell if the transmission is a hydraulic throwout or not is the input shaft. The input shaft will be mostly exposed on a hydraulic unit, and have a collar for the throwout to ride on with a mechanical throwout.

Not to make things more confusing, but I am talking about a manual throwout having a clutch fork coming out of the bellhousing. The fork can be actuated by a hydraulic cyl., or a manual linkage, but there is a fork going into the bellhousing. A Hydraulic throwout takes hydraulic pressure directly to press out the clutch, and has no external fork, just 2 hydraulic fittings.

I have no idea about flipping the linkage, I am using a Dodge bell with a Dodge input on my GM transmission, it has the linkages on the driver side and fits the pass drop D300 with no issues.

Is the vehicle not lifted? FJ axles have a pretty low pinion, and that driveshaft should drop out of the way pretty quick and not get in the way of the clutch mechanicals?

[dieselcruiserhead]

I haven't read everything here but if using a 350 to NV4500 then you want to use the Advance Adapter bellhousing as the early ones ('93 to '95 or so) have that crappy internal accordion style slave that if it blows you have to pull the trans, and calculating the volume will be difficult. The later external slave bellhousings have the actuator on the wrong side and this adapter is relatively cheap so I recommend it.

There are three basic NV4500s (with some variation).
- Standard Duty Dodge - Chevy input shaft that is 1" longer and 23 spline output (American style / Dana 300 pattern). This is also the shortest NV4500 and is actually reasonably heavy duty, came behind V8 dodges.
- Heavy Duty Dodge - large 10 spline input that is unique to Dodges, and the same bolt pattern as 23 spline but with a 29 spline output shaft, big internal vibration dampener in the 5th gear tail housing so a little longer. Came behind Cummins and V10 Dodge.
- Chevy, chevy input shaft and 32 spline output that is its own Chevy pattern so not interchangeable with Dodge patterns, though super similar and 5 of the 6 bolts or so actually line up.

Then, input shafts are easy to swap out and interchange. Also, any trans can be built in any NV4500 case, though there are some differences.

My vote is, if using a NV4500, use an off the shelf one in case it blows so you don'[t have some super weird hybrid NV4500 that is also expensive. They have a great low 1st gear but are basically a 3 speed trans with an over and underdrive - use 1st gear when towing, or if you have really fast axles. something like that...

Hope it helps...
Andre

[Jakesteramalamajama]

Originally Posted by dieselcruiserhead

I haven't read everything here but if using a 350 to NV4500 then you want to use the Advance Adapter bellhousing as the early ones ('93 to '95 or so) have that crappy internal accordion style slave that if it blows you have to pull the trans, and calculating the volume will be difficult. The later external slave bellhousings have the actuator on the wrong side and this adapter is relatively cheap so I recommend it.

Hmmm...

I have a '92 chevy NV4500 in my YJ (it's got the 6.34:1 first gear/un-synched reverse and granny gears) with a '92 chevy bellhousing (fits the old chevy 4-bolt pattern on the transmission and a standard 6-bolt chevy 350 V-8 pattern) and it has the fork fully concealed within the bellhousing with a mount for the hydro clutch slave on the front of the bellhousing (on the dust cover, really) and sticks forward beneath the starter on the passenger side of the engine...

I originally installed it behind a Ramjet 350, but have recently upgraded to a 2007 LQ4 6.0 Liter. (Flywheel/clutch/pressure plate are newer chevy truck stuff, but everything still works fine with the newer engine.)

I used a 1993 Chevy NP241C with a JB slip-yoke eliminator for a T-case. The case originally had the 28-spline input gear that mates to a 4L60e—I had to change that out for the 32-spline gear to match the output shaft on the NV4500. You can find 'em with the 32-spline if you look (they came behind the 4500 and the 4L80e Auto). I couldn't tell you exactly how long it is, but it fits just fine in a YJ with the SYE and 1350 C-V rear driveshaft.


YMMV, I guess,
Jake

[BellyDoc]

I'm using the Advance Adapters bellhousing and Landcruiser clutch slave. My Tcase is driver side drop. I've got a D60 high pinion front end and a 2 piece front drive shaft with the carrier and a beefy U-joint tucked up right under the clutch mechanism. It all clears fine. The clutch fork is at the same height as the crank shaft so you'd have to build a buggy with a suspension that lets the axle get higher than the oil pan in order for a straight drive shaft to hit the clutch. You're much more likely to tangle with the exhaust.

[J-Ohlin]

I'm running a 4500 from a 94(6.34) Chevy diesel. It's bolted up to my tbi 350 with the stock bellhousing from the diesel. I'm also running a pass drop t-case and have no clearance issues with the front shaft and my blazer is kinda low imo. My tie rod has only about 3" before it hit's the engine cross member.

I know this is the cruiser forum. I just wanted to show you dont need to spend money for after a market bell housing and adapters to do this swap.

[Jakesteramalamajama]

Originally Posted by J-Ohlin

... I just wanted to show you dont need to spend money for after a market bell housing and adapters to do this swap.

Ditto. The stock stuff is out there. You just have to look for it.


Good luck,
Jake

[J-Ohlin]

Originally Posted by Jakesteramalamajama

Ditto. The stock stuff is out there. You just have to look for it.


Good luck,
Jake

You dont really have to look for it. Just buy a complete truck and you set.

I know all 4500's gas or diesel up till the body style change(2000-2001) will bolt up to your vortec 350 with stock bellhousing. I think LS motor's with 4500 will also bolt up but not 100% sure on that.

[heavytlc]

I put a lt1 350, and nv4500 in my 1985 fj60. I used a bd short throw shifter, and was able to get the trasmission shifter to come out of the stock boot, and the transfer case shifter is in the stock location. It is a nice combo. I have had a nv4500 in my 40 since 1996. I actually sold the fj60 a few years ago, but just bought it back last week.

Advanced Adapter has any part you could need. The nv4500 in the 60 came out of a 2001 dodge 3500 diesel. I had to change the input, and just bought the right transfercase adapter.

[Elbert]

Older post, but can anyone post up some pics and more details of their NV4500 install into a FJ60?

I'm thinking about using a NV4500 too.

At present I have a 1986 FJ60 with 5.7 Vortec, 168 tooth stock flywheel, stock split case transfercase.

Potentially go with a 96 or newer 4*4 NV4500 transmission, AA NV4500 GM bellhousing, and aa adapter to mate transmission to transfer case.

For those who have done this? (my engine is sitting at the "stock" location...where I used a Marks adapter and so the driveline is in the stock toyota configuration.

(1) did you have to modify the floorboard to clear the transmission or transfercase shifters?

(2) are you running FJ60 slave cylinder?

(3) What clutch and pressure plate....assume you could run the stock GM stuff but would it be best to run something like the low profite centerforce stuff?

Please post up pics and details?

THanks..

[orangefj45]

why on earth would you want to run an NV4500 if you're going to stay with the split case.

i'd run the toyota h55f for sure. much smoother, quieter and great gear splits. bolts right to the split case also.

georg

[Elbert]

hanging with the yota 5 speed for now, I thought I had a major issue with the marks adapter but looks like that's been solved. I'll run what I have until something comes loose or *#&$ happens.

Regardless of all of that I would still like to hear how people have setup their NV4500.