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Old 07-28-2012, 08:48 PM   #51 (permalink)
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i recessed f150 shock towers in front of the axle between the sway bar end link bracked and the stock bump stops about at a 80 degree angle and outboarded the shocks re used the stock mounts on the rear axle its self.
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:15 PM   #52 (permalink)
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Whoa this truck is badass
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Old 07-28-2012, 10:34 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Thank you for being so detailed on the pictures of your SAS! I'm taking notes for a project I'm working on.
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Just type that shit n send it, no point fartin with it unless it's to fucked up it's not a lathe !
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:52 AM   #54 (permalink)
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Thank you for being so detailed on the pictures of your SAS! I'm taking notes for a project I'm working on.
If you are going to run a similar SAS, just remember that the hanger should overhang the frame by 1.5" to match my axle location. The first picture shows the hanger welded in the wrong position. The hanger I used is from Marlin.

I used 44044 front springs, but TG HD's would work as well with this setup. The TG springs will move your axle an additional 0.5" further forward than the 44044's will.
The 44044's are soft and require some tuning with additional packs.

The TG shackle kit is expensive and a lot of work to install, but well worth it.

My wheelbase is set at 114" and with three hole perch's on the rear axle, it can be opened to 116".

What kind of wheelbase, frame height and tire size are you looking for?

If you plan on running a tire smaller than 40" I would french the rear spring hangers a minimum of 1" and the front 2" into the frame.
My goal was to sit as close to 25" as possible. Once my springs settle it should sit around 25.5".
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Old 07-30-2012, 09:53 AM   #55 (permalink)
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Whoa this truck is badass
TY sir
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:02 AM   #56 (permalink)
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i recessed f150 shock towers in front of the axle between the sway bar end link bracked and the stock bump stops about at a 80 degree angle and outboarded the shocks re used the stock mounts on the rear axle its self.
Could you provide some pictures of your setup?

As of now, I am just welding it back together with some additional bracing.
I have a tendency to redesign most of my builds.
This was a temporary setup until I committed to the axle location and spring setup. I was considering frenching the rear hangers 1" and possibly pushing it back as well.

The final location will be 1" back setting the WB at 115".
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Old 07-30-2012, 10:04 AM   #57 (permalink)
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Nice build. What is the frame to ground height? And with the rear shock mount do you have any room to move the mount up and runn a full length bar accros and then welding tabs to it for shocks this was the plan for the build on my runner then you have the strength of a one piece bar
Frame rail is at 26" on flat ground.
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Old 07-30-2012, 02:44 PM   #58 (permalink)
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Rear upper shock mount failure!!





.120 wall 1.5" HREW sheered just beyond the weld.

The timing on this sucks. All of my welders and plate steel are on a job site in the bay area.
I need to fix this shit before the weekend is over or I'll have no way to get to work on Monday.

I knew it needed more bracing/triangulation but figured it would be strong enough to hold until I framed out for the fuel cell.
My plan was to build an aluminum fuel cell and frame with tube around it to protect the cell.
Then tie the shock mount into the tubed frame.

NEW PLAN!!!!
IIRC (from reading and teaching), a break where you described has something to do with the weld?? I think?? memory is fuzzy on it at best...

Also you can still drive it with out shocks... Wont be awesome but you can do it.


Interesting that it broke though... I'd bet money that you have bottomed that shock out several times, or at least one good time. No way that just from a "shock" doing it's normal job would snap that tube.
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:49 PM   #59 (permalink)
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...

By the way. I need to find a good powder coat shop in the Richmond/Pinole area for these railings. I really don't want to haul these things up to Sacramento and back.
I've heard good things about Maas Brothers Powder Coating though they're out in Livermore. They do free pickups in some areas some days of the weeks so might be worth a call....

That's a killer looking rig too btw.

-Ferg
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Old 07-30-2012, 03:51 PM   #60 (permalink)
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IIRC (from reading and teaching), a break where you described has something to do with the weld?? I think?? memory is fuzzy on it at best...

Also you can still drive it with out shocks... Wont be awesome but you can do it.


Interesting that it broke though... I'd bet money that you have bottomed that shock out several times, or at least one good time. No way that just from a "shock" doing it's normal job would snap that tube.
I was thinking the same thing. Not much flat up travel on those shocks. Truck looks awesome, just not understanding why you trying to fit such long shocks.
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Old 07-30-2012, 11:23 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I was thinking the same thing. Not much flat up travel on those shocks. Truck looks awesome, just not understanding why you trying to fit such long shocks.
It was a temporary solution with what I had.

I will be running 14" travel Bilstein shocks with the base mount at the axle moving inboard a good 1.5"- 2" and the top mount will move away from each other.

I didn't have time to cut into the body and do it right, plus I wanted to make sure that I was happy with the axle location before any major surgery.

When it broke it was from unloading at high speed. The shock compressed and wouldn't extend. Thank you to the guy who almost stacked his car in front of me and ran me off the road!!!

The weld is about 3/16" from the brake.
If it was the weld it would have broke at the edge of the weld or cracked through the weld.

This is a lack of (Pirate Classic) triangulation. The boxed section is extremely ridged. This is why it broke at the start of the tube. It essentially becomes a pivot point for flex.

Yes it needed more triangulation. It was a temporary weak link.
I'll be building it correctly and permanently this time around.

Last edited by GreaseMonkeyGarage; 07-30-2012 at 11:27 PM.
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Old 08-01-2012, 02:49 AM   #62 (permalink)
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great build. I will be watching
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Old 08-03-2012, 11:05 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by GreaseMonkeyGarage View Post
If you are going to run a similar SAS, just remember that the hanger should overhang the frame by 1.5" to match my axle location. The first picture shows the hanger welded in the wrong position. The hanger I used is from Marlin.

I used 44044 front springs, but TG HD's would work as well with this setup. The TG springs will move your axle an additional 0.5" further forward than the 44044's will.
The 44044's are soft and require some tuning with additional packs.

The TG shackle kit is expensive and a lot of work to install, but well worth it.

My wheelbase is set at 114" and with three hole perch's on the rear axle, it can be opened to 116".

What kind of wheelbase, frame height and tire size are you looking for?

If you plan on running a tire smaller than 40" I would french the rear spring hangers a minimum of 1" and the front 2" into the frame.
My goal was to sit as close to 25" as possible. Once my springs settle it should sit around 25.5".
Well my project is actually a Dakota. But I've been look through the Toyota section because you guys have 10X the amount of SAS thread than the Dodge section.

I didn't even think of frenching the hangers. 37" tires from TWF is what I'm planning on running and I want to keep it as low as possible. I can see about how high I want it to sit in my head but what what that measurement translate to I have no idea. Not sure what I'll be doing on springs just yet. Theres a guy in the Dodge section that ran 44044's and his set fairly high. He was clearing 38 with no problem.

Good news is that I'm on a contract job away 800 miles from home so I got plenty of time to plan.
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Just type that shit n send it, no point fartin with it unless it's to fucked up it's not a lathe !
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Old 08-03-2012, 03:52 PM   #64 (permalink)
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i was able to run my shocks on the outside of the frame.
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Old 08-05-2012, 11:04 PM   #65 (permalink)
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i was able to run my shocks on the outside of the frame.
Whats your WMS and BS?
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Old 08-06-2012, 08:51 PM   #66 (permalink)
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14B with H2s. so 67" with ~5.5" BS
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Old 08-07-2012, 11:28 AM   #67 (permalink)
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67" with ~5.5" BS
Thats where you have the room. I'm at 60" WMS with 4" BS.

I'm just going to start putting together some 60's.
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Old 08-07-2012, 10:37 PM   #68 (permalink)
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well, mount the shock in front or behind the axle tube. mine are mounted low and in from of the tube, it allowed for more uptravel with a longer shock.

sky man makes a mount like what im talking about. it will allow you to run the shock more upright and with less bottoming out.
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Old 08-18-2012, 10:15 AM   #69 (permalink)
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well, mount the shock in front or behind the axle tube. mine are mounted low and in from of the tube, it allowed for more uptravel with a longer shock.

sky man makes a mount like what im talking about. it will allow you to run the shock more upright and with less bottoming out.
I'm planning on building all of my mounting brackets.
The shocks will be inboard of the leafs and mounted low on the front of the axle.
I am going to cut into the cargo area for the top mounts and box them in to seal up the cab.

I just need to get some time free from work. This seven day a week shit is getting old.
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Old 09-22-2012, 07:51 PM   #70 (permalink)
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El Dorado County Sheriff say's I need bumpers!!


I started out with this and plan on building off of it.

















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Old 09-23-2012, 12:05 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Are you sure your shocks didn't bottom out causing the failure? Doesn't look like you have enough up travel.
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Old 09-23-2012, 12:11 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Are you sure your shocks didn't bottom out causing the failure? Doesn't look like you have enough up travel.
The shocks are a non issue. The setup that broke was a temporary solution. I needed to drive it and CHP wrote me a ticket for no rear shocks.
This got them off of my back. The drivers side rear shock froze solid. It did not "bottom out".

People always seem to think that exposed shaft equals up travel. This is a myth and all I can say is Carrol Smith. Go to your local library and educate yourselves.

If you understand the geometry of suspension, the first thing you would have noticed from the photo is..

A: The shock mounts in there current location are counter productive.

eg: When you triangulate shocks it makes the over all suspension softer and allows greater wheel travel with less shock travel.

By moving the upper mounts in and the lower mounts out you take the shock away from "straight travel". Straight travel is when the shock runs in true line with the moving object or in this case the axle.
This can be beneficial in what we do for rockcrawling, but can be counter productive and even inhibit the performance of our suspension if not done properly.
A shock should never be in-boarded at top or bottom beyond a maximum of 15*.
Once beyond 15* the shocks level of performance begins to decrease.
At 45* the shock with feel almost non-existent and will actually begin to fight itself.
Beyond 45* the shock will actually want to push the axle side to side with the left and right shock fighting each other. If the dampening of one shock to the next varies in the slightest the axle will then walk side to side.
This causes extensive and uneven tire wear.

You should notice by the photos that mine are at a solid 45*+.

B: You should also notice that the tube is pulled down, not pushed up.
The crack started at the bottom of the tube and moved through to the top.
All of this leads to one thing. When adding the frozen shock and the time of failure happening while the suspension was unloading, it was not bottoming out.

The reason the shocks are at 45* was to keep them from bottoming out.
I intentionally set the geometry this way for a few reasons.
#1 To keep the cops off of my ass
#2 To get a ticket signed off
#3 The only shocks I had on hand are 14" travel but the wrong overall length and very used.
#4 I used what I had with thought for the future.

The lower mounts on the axle are in there permanent location.
The tube serving as the upper mount gets cut out.
The frame plates connecting the tube get ground down and reused without removal.
The final product will be a 14" Bilstein shock set around 10*.
It will protrude through the floor and mount to 1.5" bent tube towers.

We just picked up a new model 32 bender for the shop and I will be going crazy with tubing. Front and rear shock mounts are on there way along with bumpers and side protection to start.
I'm thinking an exo might be coming into the build as well.

Updates should be coming weekly.
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Old 10-02-2012, 11:23 AM   #73 (permalink)
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Id just run 2.5x2.5 square across and mount the shocks inside it.
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Old 10-04-2012, 01:36 AM   #74 (permalink)
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GreaseMonkeyGarage great explanation on the Rear shock setup. Thanks.
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Old 02-14-2013, 11:34 AM   #75 (permalink)
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Maybe I missed it, but is that a pre-85 mini axle?
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