Aussie Locker: I read the review, so what?

[Ed Zeppeli]

uh.....Fox trapper? Your rebuttal please.


lol

[DogDenII]

Bill -

Very nice job with the tech! There is little if anything more that you need to do to back your product. Your products speaks for itself and will continue to do so. With a complete coverage warrenty that hasn't been touched yet, I would have to say that the locker works well.

The challange was made to you on MANY occassions and in many different wheeling communities. You gladly accecpted and showed us that you were one of us.

Now, sit back and soak it all up

Thanks!

[dknightd]

OK, I'm not an expert on lockrights, but I did use one for awhile (in a v6 8" toyota rearend).

VT_Toy, I assume the aussie locker works much like a lockright, and similar lockers. It will lock under compression braking, and while in reverse. Kind of like magic almost...
My understanding of the the way these things work is that, as long as there is torque supplied by the pinion to the ring gear, that a wheel will travel no more slowly in the direction of applied torque than the ring does. A wheel can however rotate more quickly, in the direction in which torque is being applied, than the ring gear. So, if you are going backwards, and accelerating backwards in reverse, the locker will function just like when accelerating forwards in a forward gear. Things get a little more interesting when compression braking. In this case, assuming you are moving foward, the pinion is supplying torque in the reverse direction, but you are moving forward. From experience I know that when, running a lockright, I accelerate in a turn I have understear because the inside wheel gets locked to the ring; when I deccelerated in a turn I had overstear presumably because the outside wheel was locked to the ring, and the inside tire was allowed to rotate more slowly than the rig gear (which makes sense since the torque supplied by the ring gear is in the reverse direction, moving more slowly actually means it is moving faster in the direction in which torque is supplied). My understanding, and again I could be wrong, and if so I hope aussielocker or somebody will tell me, is that basically in a lockright or aussielocker one wheel will always be turning at the same speed as the ring gear. If the applied torque is in the direction of motion then one wheel can travel faster in that direction than the ring. If the applied torque is oposite to the direction of motion then one wheel can rotate more slowly than the ring. This means than under compression braking, with brakes applied, one wheel can lock up and the other will rotate at the same speed as the ring. Whew - that took way more time and beer than I thought it would...

I'm not sure, but I think the technology involved in this dates back to Henry Ford and the model T. I know he used a ratcheting rear end. Might not have been the first. I'm not sure if the modelT rear end ratched in both directions though.

I'll tell you, putting in a rear lockright was one of the best mods I made to my truck. Taking out the rear lockright and putting in arb's front and rear was also one of the best mods I ever made to my truck.

I'm curious about something though. I had a v6 lockright. It reused the stock side gears. My understanding is that the 4cyl lockright also replaces the side gears. I've heard that the v6 lockright is stronger than the 4cyl lockright. Some of that might be because of differences between v6 and I4 diffs. I've also heard that there were two versions of the samuari lockright - one reusing the side gears, and one not. And the later version that used the stock side gears is stronger. Why is that, is it a materials issue?

Half of this is based on experience, half of it on heresay, and um, the other half based on theory. I don't mind being wrong so let me know what you think...

If I were considering a lockright, I think instead I'd give the aussie locker a try. It is cheaper and has a better warentee. As I understand it the operation is functionally the same.

[rocrawler]

I've been running the aussie locker in the front of my 72 FJ40, the rear has a lockrite, for about 3 weeks now. So far no problems. I was impressed with the differance it made. Thanks Bill for sending it when UPS said my address didn't exisit.

[Alabamatoy]

Originally posted by foxtrapper
Wrong again. Double springs mean if one ever fails, the other is still there, as well eliminating frequency problems. If yours ever fails, there is nothing there, and you're always stuck with a frequency failure using a single spring. A top hat on the end of a spring spreads the load and prevents damage.

Anyone who has studied reliability engineering and the various ways of calculating reliability will agree that no matter what you do, when you add parts, calculated reliability decreases.

[dknightd]

Originally posted by Alabamatoy
Anyone who has studied reliability engineering and the various ways of calculating reliability will agree that no matter what you do, when you add parts, calculated reliability decreases.

Just to play devils advocate...

"Calculated" reliability might decrease when you add parts, but, that does not mean real world reliability will decrease.
Consider a simple case:
Bolt, lockwasher, nut. Leave out the lockwasher and the system might not be as reliable (even though it has fewer parts).
Or how about this one - remove the oil pump from your engine - now you have less parts but is the engine more reliable?

Then there is the issue of redundant systems. Extra, redundent, parts are included specifically to increase reliability.

Having fewer parts does not necesarily make something more reliable.

I'm not sure whether having one spring or two effects the reliability in this case. Probably depends more on how good the springs are.

[mkrzys]

oh

[waverider]

Originally posted by dknightd
[B]

Just to play devils advocate...

"Calculated" reliability might decrease when you add parts, but, that does not mean real world reliability will decrease.
Consider a simple case:
Bolt, lockwasher, nut. Leave out the lockwasher and the system might not be as reliable (even though it has fewer parts).
Or how about this one - remove the oil pump from your engine - now you have less parts but is the engine more reliable?

These are both totally idiotic examples...try harder

Then there is the issue of redundant systems. Extra, redundent, parts are included specifically to increase reliability.

You have a point here, but if you carefully read aussielockers explanation of the springs you will see that the redundant springs had nothing to do with reliability.

[dknightd]

You're right, the oil pump example wasn't a very good one.
My point was simple.
Fewer parts does not, by itself, make something more reliable (no matter what calculated reliability might tell you).

I could expand on this, but, won't bother since it is not really relevant to this thread.

[rubo]

Hey Aussie, nice comeback .

Listen, what do you guys need to make that locker of yours for Isuzu corporate 10 bolt front (with little variances over the years found in almost every Isuzu IFS front)?

We have a lot of options for our rear (D44), but almost nothing for the front.
At some point LockRight was making one, but they stopped.
ARB makes one, but it's a looot $$$.

I think there is a great potential market in the Isuzu comunity on the front locker & with you'r prices.....

rubo

[aussielocker]

Thanks for the promotion of the 10 bolt corporate front diff. We are always looking at models to introduce and will look at this one again in the spring (USA) as we are fully booked on new product development until then. A concern would be in your statement about the "little variances over the years", as that is a real problem when you use the existing case. But that is for the engineers to review.

[foxtrapper]

Originally posted by Ed Zeppeli
uh.....Fox trapper? Your rebuttal please.

So far, he's given nothing to rebut since he's admitted to playing fancy with definitions and doing a tap dance.

The "windows" he complains about lockrite having have now magically transformed into axle shaft holes and such. Ok... Somehow, the very same ones on the aussie locker don't count.

He's carefully left hanging his wild claim about lockrites exploding if they ever rotate into some certain special position that only he seems to know of.

He's explained that since lockrite offers replacement parts (implying btw that his company will not) that this means they make the units to fail.

He's ranted about the horrors of there being spring holes in the lockrite while ignoring the same spring holes in the aussie locker.

He's huffed about my pointing out some basic engineering that isn't spelled out in the lockrite literature. As if lack of explanation of axle shaft spline function would somehow render them inoperable. Physics is physics, whether it's spelled out in a manual or not.

Btw, remember his claim about his wonderfull warranty? It's just a standard 2 year LIMITED warranty. There's nothing special about it.

But never to fear, he's got plenty of folks who don't bother to notice things like that. He says he's wonderfull, so he must be as far as they are concerned. Never mind that his product is nearly indistinguishable from a lockrite if they'd bother to check. Costs more too, regardless of his insisting it doesn't.

Like I said initially, lockrite has plenty of failings and inadequacies to take them to task on, and promote his product over them with. Making things up isn't necessary and certainly isn't cool or ethical.

[DRM]

Foxtrapper... I just have to wonder what your motives here are...

[Oatmeal]

"Geez, enough already Uh, those "shear pins" they are, and they do. Trust me. Mine was a very early unit when they still called them "LA Lockers" anybody remember that or, am I just THAT old? Oh yeah it was a Ford 9" broke the case in two, replaced it with a Detroit and gave the locker parts to a buddy he broke it too! Anyway the Aussie locker sounds like a really good deal, so why are you getting all twisted up about it, do you work for Lockrite or something? Hey, Aussie guy, do the Toyota V6 versions come with new side gears like the 4cylinder versions?

[rubo]

Aussie, i'm realy not the right person to tell you more about the "small variances" in years. I know there is a wierd '98 that no one seems to know what is it.

I would suggest you checking with the rest of the folks at the 4x4 Wire (i hope the guys here won't mind me giving the link).

This is the thread that one of the guys started about your product, over there:
4x4wire.com/thread

rubo

[aussielocker]

Foxtrapper has clearly shown his total lack of knowledge of not oly the product he defends, but of what I said. He is clearly motivated by some hidden agenda where no matter what we say or how clear we use plain english, he wants to twist it to support his own flawed comments. It must be terribly embarassing to be caught with such inaccurate and untrue statements as FoxTrapper has published.

We will let him continue to show his bias and lack of technical knowledge, as we continue to produce and manufacture the best locker in the marketplace.

[DogDenII]

FOXTRAPPER -

Let's assume that your intentions are only positive in posting.

Aussie Locker has not been disproven in any of his accounts as I can tell. Quite the opposite if you doe a search on "aussie locker" and read all the posts by other knowledgeable members such as yourself.

I challanged Aussie Locker on their "limited warrenty" and was informed by the president himself that "IF I chose to run the Aussie Locker on 38's, longs, chromos, and run the hardest trail I could find, and the locker broke, there would be no questions asked and the locker would be covered" Until this is disproven, I have no reason not to take his word on it.

I think that what you, yourself fail to realize is that Aussie has chosen to sign in, post, reply, help on the PBB. He has a lot to risk by making "any statement" that is not backed up. Not to mention what would happen "specifically on here" if an aussie locker were to fail and not be replaced.

Think about it.

Now - Lets just say for simplicities sake we look at the locker on basics.

Does it make the loud annoying noises that the lockright makes? Nope

Is there locker physically different in appearance and in make up from the lockright? Yep

Have there been "any" negative claims concerning the operation of the Aussie in any certain situation? Nope

Is it "really" cheaper then the lockright? Yep

So - Reliability sells and the Future is unpreditable.

Have seat, kick back, and wait. The truth always comes out and until it does, why challange a professional?

BTW: I bet your employer: Maryland Deparment of the Environment would be thrilled that you are here

[DRM]

BTW - 3 days @ Tellico, Aussie Locker held up fine... Unlike a few Jeep axle shafts, a Warn FF shaft, and some other stuff in his group

[Overbear]

its very clear foxtraper is a false post. Look at it, 15 post newbie, no star, and Im willing to bet made recently.

I wonder if perhaps its someone that sells douchlocker or powercraps products?

[Indyguy]

Originally posted by aussielocker
A concern would be in your statement about the "little variances over the years", as that is a real problem when you use the existing case. But that is for the engineers to review.

It really isn't that big of a deal as far as I know. IIRC, the variances are only found in the 3rd member part of the '98 front 10-bolt. So every other year would be fine, and the '98 guys would just have to source a non-'98 3rd member and carrier. Complicates things a bit, but they would have to do the same to run an ARB in the front.

Don't forget about the Isuzu corporate 12-bolt axle used in the rear of 1st gen 4WD Amigos, almost all Troopers, and some P'ups. The only options at this point are ARB or "lincoln locked". Being a DD, I went with the ARB. But for what it cost me, an auto style locker would have been a nice option to have.
________
Suzuki dl650 v-strom specifications

[rubo]

Sorry Indy, i completlet forgot about you, 12 bolt guys.

The 12 bolt changetd once or twice over the years. Again i'm not realy the one to talk about the changes. The best place would be on the link i posted earlyer.

rubo

[Wickedtoyz]

Originally posted by DRM
BTW - 3 days @ Tellico, Aussie Locker held up fine... Unlike a few Jeep axle shafts, a Warn FF shaft, and some other stuff in his group

Just wondering does anyone have any real mileage on these lockers yet, 3 days of wheeling dosnt cut it . I guess time will tell, but i think its fair for the guys still backing lockrights, not primarily to bash aussie locker, everything has its place, and always better to have selection.

[Benny]

I know someone is gunna post up and disagree with me and argue about it, BUT...

I Think of the aussie locker of being EXACTLY like an EZ locker or lockright. No matter what they "claim". All are good for the price and the aussie locker has an even lower price at this time.

THAT is why I am going to be buying an aussie locker.


When the aussie locker goes up to the normal price of $260, they will not be the less expensive choice. But I would probably buy one anyway because they are on this board and contribute. (any giveaways coming up? )

[Oatmeal]

Just curious, all you guys comparing the Lockrite to the Aussie Locker, have you actually compared them side by side, I mean have you actually had them there, in front of you or are you making your comparisons by what you've seen in a couple of pictures?

[DRM]

Originally posted by Oatmeal
Just curious, all you guys comparing the Lockrite to the Aussie Locker, have you actually compared them side by side, I mean have you actually had them there, in front of you or are you making your comparisons by what you've seen in a couple of pictures?

I have personally run and installed (over the years) an old LA Locker, a Lockright, and a Detroit EZ locker, as well as the new Aussie Locker. I am familiar enough with them to have immediately noticed several (but not all) of the design differences between the Aussie Locker and the others.