rear end failed again

[crawler#976]

the depression is setting in-

another set of rear r/p is toast.

here's the setup-

22re, lc eng. dual composite clutch and PP, marlin crawler w/ 2.28 x 2.28 gears, Superior Axle and Gear 5.29 r/p
in stock 4 cyl third's w/ detroit no-slips front and rear. bfg 35" m/t at 18 psi

trail condition-

loose rock and dirt (rocks from head size to gravel) at a 30 to 40 deg incline, one rock shelf at the top w/ approx 20" to 24" near vertical face. total length of the hill, about 250'. it was an easy, easy climb. once i engaged the crawler and let out the clutch, it was a cake walk to the top. the j**P i was with made it with no effort either.

result-

back on the hi-way, i've got noise in the rear end when i'm off the gas, or the clutch is in. sounds like tire whine magnified by a factor of 5.

ANYBODY have a clue WHY this is happening????????

[derek]

my guess would be, check the axle tubes and make sure one isnt bent. if one is bent it might be putting strain on the carrier and bearings.

just a guess, derek

[miniyota]

5.29's are almost gaurenteed to break.
that's what everyone has told me. could just be a mith though.

have you tried a different gear set-up or checked you axle tubes as well.

<IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce2.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/bounce.gif" border="0">

[Raptor]

Try some U.S. gears. I run the same set-up as you 'cept I got 35" boggers. I can toast a birf pretty easily but have never had a problem w/gears. Might be worth a try.

[NoBrainR]

Are you using a crush sleeve on your pinion, or the solid spacer?

[crawler#976]

oh yah, it's a solid spacer in the rear.

[Domenic]

Check for a bent housing tube and change
brand of R&P as stated before. I run a
simular setup and put them through hell
on the con and trec and never had a problem.
<IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

[DRM]

Who is doing the instalation?

I guess instalation error, bent housing/shaft, or you are just a sucky driver <IMG SRC="smilies/tongue.gif" border="0">

[crawler#976]

the same shop set them up both times using SAG gears, the last time under "warrenty", of which they wanted ME to pay labor!

I called them this AM, no reply. also called the mechanic who did the install, he has now opened his own shop, and he told me they had trouble getting a good pattern on the SAG gears.

I through with the other shop.

Questions:

are the v6 housings that much stronger?

can i use the detroit from my current setup in one?

should i go to 4.88's?

and no, i'm not a sucky driver, been playin' ofroad for over 20 years, the last 17 in a '70 gmc shortbed, never have had a failure on the drive train due to breakage, i've just worn out parts in 280,000 miles.

[DRM]

Then I would find someone else to set up gears. Blaming the gears is a joke - I call INSTALLER ERROR! <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0">

[OOP'S]

Check the housing to see if is bent

no your locker will not work in a V-6 housing

Get Richmond Gears

Could also be bad set up, that is what most gear related failures are caused by--Bad Setup!!

[chris_danoff]

Another thing you may to take into consideration is the possibility of axle wrap. If the trail is gravely then your tires can loose and then quickly gain traction. This is very hard on drive terrain. You might want a traction anti-slip bar on your housing. Do a search. Brandon made a really cool one found in the tech area. <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0"> <IMG SRC="smilies/blender.gif" border="0">

[bertha]

Originally posted by crawler#976:
<STRONG>
Questions:

are the v6 housings that much stronger?

can i use the detroit from my current setup in one?

should i go to 4.88's?

</STRONG>

Yes the V6 housings are stronger. They are a 4 pinion design vs. the 2 in the 4 cyl. trucks. I am pretty sure the locker will not transfer over either <IMG SRC="smilies/frown.gif" border="0"> . I am running gears from Drivetrain Warehouse and the guy at the driveline shop set them up with less (we are talking 1000's of an inch) backlash than spec'd. With his experience dealing with big tires and lower gears he has had very little trouble. So far the set up has worked great and i am running 5.29's in the front pumpkin with a 4 cyl. third.

[NoBrainR]

When you pull the axles, what do the splines look like? And is there excessive slop or are they tight going in/coming out? Are there any cracks, missing teeth, spalled teeth on the ring or pinion? What gear lube are you running? EP additive or not? What shape are/were the bearings in? Were the adjustment locks installed? Did the mech say why they had a problem getting a good pattern, execessive runout? Is the sound a constant whine or a wah,wah,wah? I haven't personally heard of SAG gears, but have seen gears not cut properly and the mounting face not true to the gear face? A good shop would spot this when setting them up and send them back.

[wes]

Ya make sure your axle slides in easily. It should drop right in without any bindage. If you are having trouble getting the 4 retaining studs to line up and slide in its probably bent.

[crawler#976]

talked with chris g. at all pro, i've found a v6 third out of a '90 two wheel drive (there pulling it now to see if it's an 8")
and will probably send it to them to rebuild.

guess the only bright spot is #22 of "50 reasons to wheel" from the arizona offroad junkies:

#22, breakage is a good excuse to upgrade.

the pisser is i'm tapped out for cash!
send donations to:

The Mark Longfield broke Toyota Foundation.

it's a tax free (Right!) not for profit orginization for ME

[Bad Karma]

Check your driveshaft angle.

[Loco]

It does sound like installer error. In order for my rear gears to break, (5.29's) it took no rear shocks, chevy leafs, and trying to pull up hill a dead weighted Land rover and my truck hopping up and down to get them to break. And I killed the ring gear first then the pinion went. Oh yeah, they were richmonds.

[crawler#976]

drave shaft is straight from the pinion to the c/v at the t'case, I did allow some room for settling when I welded up the perch's

[DSI]

Originally posted by crawler#976:
<STRONG>i've found a v6 third out of a '90 two wheel drive (there pulling it now to see if it's an 8")
</STRONG>

ok, only problem there is 2wd V6's used 4cyl 8in diff's...

i've broken 3 axles and 2 lockers with the same set of 5,29's that I setup myself without a clue how 3yrs ago, never had a single problem with them US gears <IMG SRC="smilies/smile.gif" border="0"> i've run them hard on teh trails and on teh road and now i'm towing my 4,000 pound trail rig and trailer with them and have No problems again,

definatly an install issue!!!

[crawler#976]

crap- the 2wd third was gonna be a straight swap for my IFS junk, but indeed, 2wd v6 third's are different from the 4x4, called the local dealer to verify, part #'s aren't the same. they've had the same call recently, and it only took the guy a min. to double check.

[ROKTOY]

My guesses from most likely to least:

(1) Install error
(2) Bent or damaged housing
(3) No break-in ??? (you didn't say)
(4) Abuse or other driving problems
(5) Bad gears

Jay

[Nick Z]

If your breaking gears in that short of a time span, I'm calling set up error. Could be a bent shaft, but I doubt it.

[4Ruggyfamily]

Here is my opion. I think 5.29 gears are good with just a stock case. Good for 33' or 35's Not that much tourqe. With duel cases that is added tourqe which puts stress on the ring and pinion. Or what ever is the weakest link. I think you would be better running 4.56 gears it would give you a good crawl ratio and better hwy gears. I run 4:7.1 Marlin with stock gears 4.10's and the power is great for crawling. I also run 36" swampers so the gearing is good in 1rst ,but second need a little more gear which I am going to go with 4.56gears which will be perfect fo crawling and drivein. So take and think about all of everyones opinons and make your own decision. I hope that help a little. Good luck

[gadget]

back on the hi-way, i've got noise in the rear end when i'm off the gas, or the clutch is in. sounds like tire whine magnified by a factor of 5.

Sounds like maybe your pinion nut has backed off. When in decel mode the pinion will walk away from the ring gear and make the noise you are describing.

If they are not getting a good pattern then they should have not of put you back on the road. That would be the first mistake.

Is your diff housing 86 or later? Some gear sets are built for the 85 and earlier housings that have a slightly different inner race on the inner pinion bearing, about .200" Enough to mess with the pattern. You will need to use the earlier pinion bearing with most aftermarket gear sets. This maybe his problem with the wipe pattern.