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Old 12-07-2004, 06:11 PM   #1 (permalink)
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SAS problems

i just finished a SAS on my 4runner last night, 83 axle w/ 2" spacers, skys u bolt flip, sky's highsteer, all pro hanger, and 7 leaf waggy's.
i took it out for the first ride to settle things down a bit to measure for the shocks, i already have the ford towers. anyway past 30 mph it starts to death wobble like a mofo, i mean it is really scary, i have to stop the truck to make it the wobble stop.

could no shocks and being a little out of alignment make it that bad? should a trip to the alignment shop (if i can make it) and shocks fix it? or is something really wrong here?
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Old 12-07-2004, 06:19 PM   #2 (permalink)
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you can do your own alignment buy getting rid of the backing plates and measuring off the front of the rotors and rear.

measure your caster angle and youll see why you have death wobble. i have a little more drop hanger than shackle length on flat springs and a decent amount of wobble...the misalignment and 2'' wheel spacers arent helping...
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Old 12-07-2004, 06:20 PM   #3 (permalink)
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How much out of alignment are we talking here? Toe it in 1/8".
How is the caster angle?
Are the tires balanced?
Are the trunnion bearings good? Is the preload correctly set on them?

No shocks definetly will give it a weird feeling too....

You shouldnt need to take it to an alignment shop either. Just make suer that the caster is 4-5 degrees and toe it in about an 1/8" to a 1/4"
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Old 12-07-2004, 06:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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My first SAS truck death wobbeled I set the toe in at the bulg on the tires at a little less than 1/8" it drove great after that!
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Old 12-07-2004, 06:49 PM   #5 (permalink)
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  • Did you do a drop hanger?
  • Are you running extended shackles?
  • Are the upper shackle mounts through the frame or hung under?
All of these can also contribute. If you have a drop hanger, run extended shackles of about the same lift.
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Old 12-07-2004, 06:51 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I would bet it is the tires. Shocks and alignment will help. Also, put a steering stabilizer on it.
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Old 12-07-2004, 07:23 PM   #7 (permalink)
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the bearings are new(axle rebuilt), the drop hanger does match the shackels (the AP kit), the shackle mounts are through the frame and i used the jig.

i must have the alignment way off, im going to work on it tommarow after exams.
stupid question i guess, how do you measure caster angle on a solid axle? you cant change it in anyway can you?

thanks for all this help, i need to get my DD back on the road!
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Old 12-07-2004, 07:29 PM   #8 (permalink)
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[QUOTE=bluerunner]the bearings are new(axle rebuilt)

Did you set the trunion bearing preload? or just throw the new bearings in with the old shims???
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Old 12-07-2004, 07:30 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerunner
the bearings are new(axle rebuilt), the drop hanger does match the shackels (the AP kit), the shackle mounts are through the frame and i used the jig.

i must have the alignment way off, im going to work on it tommarow after exams.
stupid question i guess, how do you measure caster angle on a solid axle? you cant change it in anyway can you?

thanks for all this help, i need to get my DD back on the road!
the all pro hanger and shackle was designed for a spring with some arch to it, your running super flat waggies(your caster is off, your pinion is pointing up a bit))...i have the same(similar) prob and have a couple different degree shims to solve it, but im too busy with other shit to fix it...

id be interested in what toyota guys who rotate there knuckles use for caster sucessfully.

you can measure the caster off the flat steering arm or the race seat for the trunion bearing
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Old 12-07-2004, 07:40 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Yea What Rock Pimp Said, I Have Been Running My Like That For Awile Do To Bearings Loose As A Goose.
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Old 12-07-2004, 07:50 PM   #11 (permalink)
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i just got my sas truck back tonight and had the same problem. i need to go get my wheels balanced though. hopefully that will cure my problem.
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Old 12-07-2004, 07:53 PM   #12 (permalink)
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i set the preload, 12lbs.

i might need a small shim, my springs do have some arch though, even with the weight of the v6. i took the top 4 leaves from a 7 leaf waggy pack, then the 3-5th of another 7 leaf pack for a total of 7 under the 4runner. i cut them down to be steps.
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Old 12-07-2004, 08:14 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I had horrible wobble after i did my hy steer and i put a steering stabilizer on it and that did the trick for me. I'm sure my wheel balance is way off but no body in my town will balance a 39" bogger.
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Old 12-08-2004, 04:46 PM   #14 (permalink)
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well today i set the toe in at 1/8" then at 1/4". it still sucks. i think im going to go back through the axle thursday afternoon and check the bearings and such. i also think i need to switch to standard crossover bc the tie rod will tap the oil pan from time to time.
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Old 12-08-2004, 04:52 PM   #15 (permalink)
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you may want to check the wheel spacers, make sure they're tight
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Old 12-08-2004, 04:54 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Did you ever get shocks? If not - YES - that will cause a death wobble from hell.
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Old 12-08-2004, 04:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
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as far as your tie rod hitting, I had to move the axle forward 2.5" from stock to get it to quit hitting my oil pan on my V-6. Also, for the death wobble, this isnt great for a daily driver, but when I aired my 39.5 IROKs down to 4-6 psi, the wobble would go away. I also put on a stabilizer and that helped a lot.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:00 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i torqued the wheel spacers.
i dont have shocks yet... but i do have death wobble from hell, i cant even go 25mph now. i might try some cheap procomp shocks untill i get the bilsteins.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:04 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by tonichol
as far as your tie rod hitting, I had to move the axle forward 2.5" from stock to get it to quit hitting my oil pan on my V-6.
yeah the v6 really sucks for that, i didnt realize that it had that little hump at the front of the pan untill i cut the IFS off.

did you ever think about removing the oil pan, cutting out the little hump at the front of the pan, then tig welding a piece of metal back there? is this just a bad idea?

im just trying to figure out the quickest way to get my DD back on the road and be safe.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:04 PM   #20 (permalink)
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make sure your u-bolts are tight as a bunghole
That gave me death wobble like yours that progressively got worse.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:10 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by shankles43
make sure your u-bolts are tight as a bunghole
That gave me death wobble like yours that progressively got worse.
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they are tight, i dont know if they are bunghole tight though. what are they supposed to be torqued to? 100lbs?

side note, i got the ubolt flip kit from sky, and it actually works. it just slid right on. unlike a lot of other vendors kits that i have tried where you have to beat the crap out of the u bolt next to the diff to make them fit.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:33 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Dude - it's the SHOCKS (more accurately - the lack of). Stop wasting your time until you get that taken care of.
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Old 12-08-2004, 05:41 PM   #23 (permalink)
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^^^^bunghole tight is measured on the lady in DRM's avatar ^^^^^^

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Old 12-08-2004, 05:55 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by bluerunner
yeah the v6 really sucks for that, i didnt realize that it had that little hump at the front of the pan untill i cut the IFS off.

did you ever think about removing the oil pan, cutting out the little hump at the front of the pan, then tig welding a piece of metal back there? is this just a bad idea?

im just trying to figure out the quickest way to get my DD back on the road and be safe.
I swapped in a T100 2wd oil pan and it works great. If u do this make sure u get the pickup tube also.


I also get death wobble but only if i hit a bump, my caster is around 6* so am in the process of putting in a 3* shim. My tires are also out of balance so that does not help. I will let u know if the shims help at all.

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Old 12-08-2004, 06:04 PM   #25 (permalink)
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drm's right. do the obvious thing first. put some friggen shocks on there. that should be a priority especialy on a dd. i would almost guarantee this will fix the majority of your "death wobble". any woble from out of round/ ballence tires will be magnafied by the lack of dampening. if there is still a problem (i doubt it will be much) then start looking else where.

also it doesn't matter if you run rancho's if that is all you can afford. sure the bilsteins may be better but people survived for years before they became the thing to have on a rock crawler.

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