Pirate 4x4 banner

winch question

2K views 65 replies 25 participants last post by  934RNR 
#1 · (Edited)
hey what size winch you guys running? is there a rule of thumb on the size you should have? i never really thought i would need one, until saturday. had i had one i would have saved my self a long walk and my truck would be home instead of sitting in the forest.
 
#6 · (Edited)
l3Ol3 said:
need any help getting it out of the forest?
not sure yet.

rundown of my stupidity - trail is john bull

friends that were supposed to go bailed. so me and my buddy decide to heck with them well run it solo. we ran it from east to west. starting by the transfer station. now we had never been on the trail before so it was all new to us. the trail covered in snow didnt make navigation easy. we got stuck once in a snow berm but we hilifted it up and drove off the hilift and were going again. so we got to a spot were we could tell where the trail went and so i stopped and went looking to see if i could tell and no dice. so we were just checking out the snow and taking a break. then some guys on quads came from the west entrance. we talked with them a bit and they said it wasnt too bad ahead. so we figured we give it a try. started going again but the snow slowed us down. so as i was backing up i slid over and had to cross a gully where the melted water was flowing a rig width down stream from where we orginally crossed it. it was some nasty silt/sediment stuff and instant on the frame rails. tried hilft winching backwards and didnt make much progress. then we hilifted up and started throwing stuff under the tires. we were making progress but not very fast. so it was 4:00pm and we decided to start walking and have someone pick us up at the 18. so we walked 2.5 hours and got to the road when the sun was going down and according to the incar temp it was 34*. needless to say it was an adventure. could of stayed longer and got out by my buddy wasnt feelin to good and didnt want to be out there when it got dark.
 
#8 ·
I ran a warn 6000 for a few years. It pulled me out every time but I could feel it straining. I now run an 8000, it is a difference of night and day. 1.5x in my opinion is too small especially if you have a lot of gear, steel bumpers and armor. I suggest welding a receiver hitch in the rear for the winch and maybe on each side if you play in mud, forests. I had to winch my truck sideways because there was a huge stump stuck underneath!
 
#9 ·
Have been useing a warn 8,000-- on my toyota--@4,500 #
used it on MANY recoverys and Cal-Rocs---
(freebie courtsy of the TDS Raffle)
 
#12 ·
tanman2003 said:
is the line speed difference between a xd9500 or whatever warns fastest winch is, compared to a m 8000 really that big of a difference?
Yes - amazing speed difference.

BUT - it's not like your recoveries are a timed event ;) so slow is just that... slow... And a cheap slow winch is still better than no winch at all :)
 
#15 ·
I run a 9000lbs Milemarker hydraulic unit. I bought it nine years ago so it`s only a single speed one. It`s slow but the thing about hydraulic units is that the line speed is always the same no matter what the load is so when I really get stuck, it`s usualy faster than an electric. I built my truck up because I dread having to wind it back up after use.

A friend of mine has a Warn 8274 and I can see why they are used alot in competitions. I believe they are still the no-load speed champ at 70 ft/min. I`d love one but it wouldn`t fit in my ARB bumper without major modification and even then it would look pretty dorky.

Another friend used to have an 8000lbs Warn electric (not an 8274) on his Jeep. He got stuck past his rockers in mud and the winch finaly gave up with a fried motor because he didn`t let it cool down. It cost him about $300 to have the motor rewound so that is why I got a hydraulic unit. I`m glad because a couple times I got to test the 100% duty cycle rating!

Personaly, if I didn`t play in mud, I would get an electric winch. But I do, and often I wheel alone so not getting out is not an option. The hydraulic winch gives me peace of mind that it will always get me out.

Also, given the recent release of alot of "cheap" winches, I second what DRM said and having one of these is better than not having one at all. Nevertheless, I believe in the axiom "you get what you pay for" and I`ve seen the "cheapies" break too easily IMHO. Do yourself a favour and buy the best winch you can afford. 20 year old Warn 8274s are still pulling trucks out and my Milemarker hydro is on its 2nd cable but I`m still running the original hoses and power steering pump that has always powered it.

Toughguy :cool2:
 
#17 ·
TOUGHGUY said:
Personaly, if I didn`t play in mud, I would get an electric winch. But I do, and often I wheel alone so not getting out is not an option. The hydraulic winch gives me peace of mind that it will always get me out.



Toughguy :cool2:
Always, yes, as long as the motor is running.
 
#19 ·
tanman2003 said:
that dosent make sense, less cable on the drum, and half the pulling speed i dont get it. :confused:
I know it seems wierd, but you get more power with less rope on the drum, plus double (sometimes run two blocks if I am extracting a heavy rig so then triple) the mechanical advantage and it actually speeds up.
 
#20 ·
4Mogger said:
Always, yes, as long as the motor is running.
That`s really a moot point. An electric winch like a typical Warn 9000lbs unit can draw upwards of 400amps at max load. If you have a dead engine you won`t have much effective winching time from even a fully charged battery. Just think about how long your battery can turn your engine over continuously before dying. Your winch can draw more than twice that amperage. Of course bigger batteries have more capacity so I`m just generalising but you get the idea. If you kill your battery getting yourself extracted, how are you going to start your truck after you fix the engine? Whether you have a hydro or an electric winch, if you are alone, your first priority should be to get the engine fixed. Ultimately, the engine turning a pump or turning an alternator is what makes your winch do its thing.

When my friend fried the motor in his winch, he was trying to extract his Jeep before it sank past the rockers. And although the winch was pulling him out, the bog was too big and the winch just wasn`t rated to pull at that load for so long. The jeep went down past the door sills and made a huge mess not to mention more damage.

The likeliness of getting yourself stuck with a broken engine is pretty slim. I`ve never seen it happen yet!

Toughguy :cool2:
 
#21 ·
TOUGHGUY said:
The likeliness of getting yourself stuck with a broken engine is pretty slim. I`ve never seen it happen yet!

Toughguy :cool2:
Not "broken" but I have seen plenty of rigs stuck with water issues preventing the motor from starting/running.
Cool thing about electric is that as long as someone's rig is running, you can get juice to the vehicle with the winch. I have done this once and seen it done on a couple of occasions. Whereas if the only winch is hydro and the motor won't run, then you are SOL.
But your point about solo wheeling is well taken. I guess the answer is a hydro main and an electric backup/portable. :D
 
#22 ·
Now what I find interesting is that you can purchase DC hydraulic power packs that can put out 3000psi @ 3-4 GPM which is plenty to power a hydraulic winch pulling at max load but the kicker is that it will only draw 50-75amps!!! The electric winch pulling at the same load is drawing 4 times that but doing the same amount of work!

I`m actually looking at building a gas powered powerpack that can turn a hydro pump or an alternator all built into the same frame. That way it can serve to power my winch or charge a dead battery relatively quickly.

4Mogger said:
But your point about solo wheeling is well taken. I guess the answer is a hydro main and an electric backup/portable. :D
How about a dual power winch! Maybe overkill for anything but an expedition type vehicle though!

Toughguy :cool2:
 
#23 ·
4Mogger said:
I know it seems wierd, but you get more power with less rope on the drum, plus double (sometimes run two blocks if I am extracting a heavy rig so then triple) the mechanical advantage and it actually speeds up.

i guess i can see that, it makes up for the slow line speed by being powerful enough to pull the load. but with no load there is no way thats faster.
 
#24 ·
TOUGHGUY said:
Now what I find interesting is that you can purchase DC hydraulic power packs that can put out 3000psi @ 3-4 GPM which is plenty to power a hydraulic winch pulling at max load but the kicker is that it will only draw 50-75amps!!! The electric winch pulling at the same load is drawing 4 times that but doing the same amount of work!

I`m actually looking at building a gas powered powerpack that can turn a hydro pump or an alternator all built into the same frame. That way it can serve to power my winch or charge a dead battery relatively quickly.



How about a dual power winch! Maybe overkill for anything but an expedition type vehicle though!

Toughguy :cool2:
Kind of like modern trains. They are electric, with generators powered by diesel motors. Efficiency will eventually win out.
 
#25 ·
tanman2003 said:
i guess i can see that, it makes up for the slow line speed by being powerful enough to pull the load. but with no load there is no way thats faster.
Yea, no load is slower. Half the speed of course. My HS9500 is very fast but bogs way down under load. Cut the load in half with the block and final line speed jumps pretty good.
 
#26 ·
tanman2003 said:
i guess i can see that, it makes up for the slow line speed by being powerful enough to pull the load. but with no load there is no way thats faster.
With an electric winch it`s all about load. When the load goes up, the speed goes down. The curves are not linear meaning that if you double the load the speed might reduce by half but double it again and the speed might reduce by a factor of 8. It then becomes easier to see that if you use a snatch block (that normaly reduced line speed by half) that you may reduce the load on the winch to a point where it becomes more than twice as fast as it was under the original load.

Toughguy :cool2:
 
This is an older thread, you may not receive a response, and could be reviving an old thread. Please consider creating a new thread.
Top