Guess and spend auto repair and CRAP advice!

[Grim Reaper]

[Rant]

Somebody thats green at auto repair is fine. I really don't have a problem with them so much once they learn how to ask a question and how to search first. They are trying to learn and with enough PBB abuse we can straighten them out.

I am so tired of dumbasses that have no freaking idea of how to repair a vehicle giving shitty advice to people! Its driving me insane!

GUESSING AT AND THEN THROWING MONEY AT A REPAIR IS ONLY GOOD AT MAKING YOU POOR.

If you tell somebody to go buy a part without first walking them through the diagnostic on said part...DELETE YOUR POST! YOU ARE AN IDIOT WITH NO CLUE AND YOU ARE WASTING THIS PERSONS TIME AND MONEY IF THEY ARE STUPID ENOUGH TO LISTEN TO YOU!

You can tell the good advice and the people with a clue because they will tell you to do the diagnostics (read codes meter out sensors etc) first. They generally never tell you to buy a part right off the bat. They ask you to do the leg work and prove that part bad before you spend money.

There is diagnostic procedures for every part on a motor. You should NEVER spend money on a part till you have PROVED that part defective by doing the diagnostics.

Where do you get these procedures....A SHOP MANUAL! The very first thing you should do if you have any inkling to do a repair on your truck is BUY A DAMN SHOP MANUAL!

Shop manual will have step by step procedure on how to test the part and all the values and responses you should see if the part is working correctly. It will also have the correct torque values on fasteners that will keep you from galling threads. If you bother to look them up and figure out a 8mm bolt doesn't not and cannot handle 45ibft of torque. Over tightening stuff is just as bad as under. You exceed the spec on the bolt and that bolt is at risk for catastrophic failure ("breaking" for the HS drop outs with limited vocabulary) at any time.

A fuel injected Toyota is one of the simplest vehicles to work on you will find. IT WILL TELL YOU WHAT IS WRONG AND WHERE TO LOOK IF YOU KNOW HOW TO ASK! HOW TO ASK IS IN THE SHOP MANUAL!

Tools for diagnostics on Toyota's.

Paper clip or 2 inch wire with spades on each end. (free or under $1 if you have to buy the spades)

Volt Ohm Meter ($10-20)

Mighty vac hand vacuum pump. ( $20 and it will help you bleed your brake too)

Vacuum gage with assorted T and hose adapters ($14)....A Might vac can be used if you got the fancy one with the gage.

SHOP MANUAL (Haynes is $14 at parts store and it OK for most repairs)

BRAIN capable of logical thought and following written procedures.


So for about $55-75 and a public education you can have a pretty good set of diagnostics tools to work on your junk.

You don't need a $10k computer the dealer has. Fact of the matter is a dealer mechanic is often more of an idiot then those of us that do it with a paper clip. They are parts installers. We have to do the leg work and understand how the parts relate to each other. They will do with the computers says and if it doesn't work then they have the luxury to take the part off and try a different part since they have stock available to swap till the problem goes away.


Procedures to follow for any run problem.

Step 1. READ THE CODES IF ITS FI! Just because the light isn't on doesn't mean there is no codes to be read. There are "Hard codes" (the ones that will keep the check engine light on) and "soft codes". A soft code or intermittent problem may only have the light on for a short period of time or possibly not at all depending on the code. Once you have those codes look them up. Reset the ECM at this point.

Now if this is an intermittent problem then reseting the ECM will clear codes that will be unrelated or possibly tripped if any other diagnostics has been done that possibly tripped an invalid code. Try to recreate the problem. Once it occurred then read the codes again. See what codes are gone and what ones came back. On a FI code it may have multiple meanings. What other codes are present will help you decide what that combination of codes most likely shows is wrong.

Step 2. (step 1. on a carb motor) Take note of the problem. When does it happen, Is it when the engine is cold or hot. Idle, accelerating, steady cruise, decelerating? That information is VERY important is helping people rule things out.

As an example. Starting cold fine and running fine till the motor warms on on a Carb vehicle is usually a problem with the Choke. Usually the choke has not opened and its drowning the motor.

Those same exact symptoms on a Fuel injected engine is usually a EGR problem or a O2 Sensor problem. The clue here is the O2 and EGR are not used till the motor is at full operating temp. Now it can still be a bad temp sensor that keeps the cold start injector on and doing essentially the same thing as the choke not open.

So you can see why it is so important to have all the facts and symptoms.

step 3. CONSULT THE SHOP MANUAL WITH THE FINDINGS IN THE PREVIOUS STEPS AND SEE WHAT IT SAYS IS PROBABLE CAUSES.

Step 4. DO THE DIAGNOSTIC STEPS THAT THE MANUAL RECOMMENDS. Confirm the part is defective by that diagnostic procedure. Buy new part and test operation after installation.

Step 5. If you still have a problem or test inconclusive then SEARCH on PBB. If you cant find a post with the same problem then ask. Notice this is not the first thing to do. This is because any of us with a clue is going to tell you to go do the first few steps or ask you questions that the answers will be in those steps.



Now some of you are idiots that don't know how to ask a question. You just about deserve the crappy advice you are going to get. Hope you got a deep wallet.

"Truck wont idle" is a DUMB question. My first response will be "Search" or "its not Tuesday".

Why?

Because I don't feel like having to pry out of you what you have checked, detailed description of problem and because every problem you could possibly have has been covered so you should have already found a post same problem and been able to go through most of the recommendations.


When you ask a question you need to help us help you.
We need to know the following:

What year the truck or the engine is

What model engine

Carb or fuel injected

modifications such as upgraded ignition, 22R converted to 22RE, propane, anything at all remotely related to the problem.

Anything that lead up to the problem such as driving though 4ft of water. HG replacement, Dumbass know it all buddy tried to fix it.

What diagnostic steps you have performed already and their results. I.E. IF THIS AS IF THIS VEHICLE IS FUEL INJECTED YOU BETTER TELL ME IF IT HAS A CODE PRESENT AND YOU HAVE CONSULTED THE MANUAL AND CAN TELL US WHAT THAT CODE SAID FOR YOUR YEAR TRUCK.. If you cant do that much then you are probably only going to get answerers from the "throw some money at it" idiots. The rest of us are burned out on the dumb questions with no details and ignoring them.

[/rant]

[DHONDAGOD]

well put sir, the problem is the ding-dongs that you speak of will read the first 3-sentences, say "that dosent apply to me" and then ask "why cant i find winter brake lite fluid and yes ive searched"

continue the beatings untill further notice...



chris

[flecker]

I'm just gonna tell everyone w/ a problem to buy a new truck!

[Keaponlaffen]

Originally Posted by flecker

I'm just gonna tell everyone w/ a problem to buy a new truck!

I noticed that!

Grim: I hope you didn't take my post in that other thread as meaning "I only buy parts to solve problems".

I rarely buy parts and return them. And only do if I absolutely don't need what I bought. Only time this happens is say when I go "Hmm, my truck's running a bit rough, maybe I'll throw some new plug wires and plugs on" cause I'm lazy and I work at a shop all day and don't feel like pulling the plugs out to check them first. Then it turns out they're fine . But I agree... telling someone to just go out and buy a new power steering pump or a new knock sensor, or a new AFM... that's a waste of time, as well as money. If you've got enough money to do that... just go buy a new truck

[toyrunner]

I've been looking at the FSM for a while now. I can't seem to decipher the white text too well. The black text is all jumbled and for the life of me, finding the torque value for the taillight lens so I can change the blinker fluid is really frustrating just kidding of course!
Danny

[flecker]

Originally Posted by toyrunner

I've been looking at the FSM for a while now. I can't seem to decipher the white text too well. The black text is all jumbled and for the life of me, finding the torque value for the taillight lens so I can change the blinker fluid is really frustrating just kidding of course!
Danny

If the blinker fluid is low.... then your truck is broken, and you need to buy a new one

[jdrocks]

x2 on your sentiments. when people ask me about working on this vintage toyota truck i tell them it reminds me of wrenching on my junk back in the fifties. except for the fi it has the same general look-dumb rock simple-which is why it is easy and cheap to work on. so i don't understand where alot of these posts are coming from-too lazy to do the basic legwork on their own junk plus zero common sense. i'm far from a pro working on these things, but i can find the search button and i do have the manual. so far every single problem i've run into has been covered by multiple posts, so i haven't had to use the manual. so if you don't search or just hit it a lick and get tired of reading through the archives-then prepare for the meltdown.

[TheRedHorseman]

great rant post sir, but so true

[Grim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Keaponlaffen

I noticed that!

Grim: I hope you didn't take my post in that other thread as meaning "I only buy parts to solve problems".

I rarely buy parts and return them. And only do if I absolutely don't need what I bought. Only time this happens is say when I go "Hmm, my truck's running a bit rough, maybe I'll throw some new plug wires and plugs on" cause I'm lazy and I work at a shop all day and don't feel like pulling the plugs out to check them first. Then it turns out they're fine . But I agree... telling someone to just go out and buy a new power steering pump or a new knock sensor, or a new AFM... that's a waste of time, as well as money. If you've got enough money to do that... just go buy a new truck

No I didn't but you did just provide an example.

$10 VOM from "Jo Blows auto part and and sex toy store" will test plug wires as well vibrator batteries just fine and takes all of 5 minutes.

You wasted more time driving for a part that you didn't need to "test" then it would have taken you to look in the Manual and find out what the resistance per foot rating is and meter it out. Hell you can do the shade tree trick and just start pulling plug wires off till you find the one that makes the least change and you got the issue narrowed down to the cylinder thats mis firing. Then swap the plug wire to another cylinder and see if the problem moves with the plug wire. See I haven't even left the drive way and I have tested and cross checked. I even showed you how to test it with no tools at all...just a little deductive reasoning.

I just looked it up on line for the 7M and while most shop manuals give a by foot rating the Toyota manual I looked at had a max resistance. On the 7M its 25kohm Without taking the time to go through my truck FSM I would say thats probably still valid for a 22R. Its a pretty standard figure on resistance plug wires.

The one that that pissed me off to make this post is some guy telling somebody to go buy a $150 EGR for a idle problem without diagnosing. The guy couldn't tell the owner how to diagnose it because he didn't know how. Thankfully that owner is smart enough and or poor enough that he wasn't up for throwing parts/money at the problem and started questioning.


I am telling you the best thing anybody can do is sit down and read the trouble shooting section of a shop manual if not the whole manual cover to cover.

Understand that a engine is just a series of actions and reactions. When something fails to act or react is when you have a problem. Then you have to have enough sense to look at the symptoms and trace back wards to the source of the failure. The Toyota FSM has a GREAT diagnostic chart. http://www.cygnusx1.net/supra/librar.../ig/IG_05.html
That trouble shoot guide takes you step by step on going through each symptom and what to check for that symptom.

For the record I don't claim to be some great mechanic. I work on my Junk because I cant afford to pay somebody to work on it. The few times I did let somebody work on my junk I realized after they did shitty work that I really couldn't do any worse and I wasn't paying by the hour so I could work on it till the problem was fixed. Then I had that knowledge of how to fix it next time it broke.

I have a few friends that are good mechanics. They are the people that I talk to and bounce ideas off if I am having a problem as guidance. They are more my "step back and re evaluate to problem step. Then I go get the manual and I test the parts they suggest need to be looked at.

My claim is to have a good memory and a good ability to associate a symptom with the part that is most likely going to cause that symptom. I then have enough sense to be able to read a repair manual and follow its directions on how to test what I think is defective. I then remember that procedure and if I forget I know how to look it up again.

[Keaponlaffen]

Mechanical aptitude is a big thing.... if you understand how it works, then you can understand how to fix it... and if you take it apart, you can remember/assume how it goes back together. Some people have it, some don't. That's why there's mechanics and people who take their cars/truck/bicycles to mechanics when they break

[Grim Reaper]

Originally Posted by Keaponlaffen

Mechanical aptitude is a big thing

Mechanical aptitude is 90% common sense.

[jdrocks]

this country is raising a big herd of sheep that is so mechanically disinclined that they are hard pressed to hang a picture on the wall much less use common sense diagnostic procedures on anything automotive.

[flecker]

Everyone on this board needs a new truck!

[Roc Doc]

ttt for the newbs. It's a good read.

[Lord Orange]

this is a good read....is there any pictures for us who can't read?

[synwars]

This IS a good read.

[Landslide]

Originally Posted by DHONDAGOD

well put sir, the problem is the ding-dongs that you speak of will read the first 3-sentences, say "that dosent apply to me"

That's what I did because I know it all already anyway!!!

My theroy is the "KISS" one "KEEP IT SIMPLE STUPID

In laymans terms ~ look at the easy simple cheap things first, then work your way up the ladder to the more complicated things. I don't know how many times I've seen people (Idiots) dig deep into the expensive crap only to find out later it was the $2.00 part bolted on top of the valve cover causing the problem (hypothetical scenario for an example just stated for the goobs going ~ "what $2.00 part?")

[Coop 50]

Originally Posted by jdrocks

this country is raising a big herd of sheep that is so mechanically disinclined that they are hard pressed to hang a picture on the wall much less use common sense diagnostic procedures on anything automotive.

The responsibility of every good dad, teach their kids about maintaining vehicles when they show the slightest interest in driving.

[black jimmy]

Originally Posted by Coop 50

The responsibility of every good dad, teach their kids about maintaining vehicles when they show the slightest interest in driving.

X2.

I don't claim to be some great mechanic, but checking things does go a long way. I don't know shit about Toy's, but by working on the one that I have now and by using the FAQ on here, I hope to learn a lot more about them.

[AndrewFlow]

It’s best to be silent and thought a fool than speak up and remove all doubt.
~Samuel Langhorne Clemens

[problem child]

i have said many times, BEING SMART AIN'T ALWAYS KNOWING EVERYTHING,IT'S KNOWING WHO TO ASK.that's why i look on here everyday

[problem child]

i have said many times, BEING SMART AIN'T ALWAYS KNOWING EVERYTHING,IT'S KNOWING WHO TO ASK.that's why i look on here everyday shucks,i should be a genius by now

[Arizona Taco]

Originally Posted by AndrewFlow

It’s best to be silent and thought a fool than speak up and remove all doubt.
~Samuel Langhorne Clemens

If you insist.

Where can I buy some of that blinker fluid everyone tells me i need?

[flecker]

Originally Posted by Arizona Taco

If you insist.

Where can I buy some of that blinker fluid everyone tells me i need?

One last time.... If your truck is out of blinker fluid, it's broke... and you need to buy a new one!

[NOODLES]

whats jacked up is you can go to yahoo search and type in your cars problem, and there is a 90 percent chance you are going to find the info you need and what needs to be done to fix it. but still retards post in this section with the simplist of automotive repair questions. how do I crank up my torsion bars, what is the hardest core solid rotor for my straight axle truck, where are my kateritic coinmachineverters?