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Old 02-27-2007, 09:59 AM   #51 (permalink)
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Just had a look, the test would appear to accurately measure the torque and twist at failure. This does apply to real life including shock loading. There are not significant time dependant strength factors at play in an axle. Shock loading is just peaking of torques in an axle by use of the truck. The axle doesn't care how long that is applied, if it is more than its strength it comes apart.

The only main factor it doesn't show is fatigue.

The axles with high % twist before failure will in general have a much longer fatiuge life. This is more applicable for daily driving that trail use.

Last edited by Slowzuki; 02-27-2007 at 10:00 AM.
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Old 02-27-2007, 05:34 PM   #52 (permalink)
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has anyone tested the new 40 spline d60 shafts... or the 45spline rear 9" shats. my buddy told me about both and i was wondering how bomb proof they are....
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Old 05-02-2007, 07:14 AM   #53 (permalink)
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did bobby break anything at the jambo???
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Old 05-03-2007, 02:25 AM   #54 (permalink)
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wait, am i blind, or is the longfield d60 cv not on the test results? i'm interested in seeing its abilities.
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Old 05-03-2007, 09:28 AM   #55 (permalink)
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IIRC they tried to break a 60 CV at one point and maxed out the machine.
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:22 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mikey_d05 View Post
IIRC they tried to break a 60 CV at one point and maxed out the machine.
shit.


i need some 60's and 2g's for those!
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Old 05-03-2007, 08:40 PM   #57 (permalink)
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Yes we tryed brakeing the Dana 60 CVs. Our machine can't brake them it starts to bend the table of the machine.
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Old 05-04-2007, 12:09 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ErikB View Post
This is in no way an exact science. Nor does it show how they will actually perform in the real world. It doesn't take into consideration a lot of different factors like shock loads, fatigue, and others. It may not even be unbiased.

It is, however, about the closest way anyone has yet come up with though to make some ROUGH comparisons (with far fewer and more controlled variables than testing them on different rigs and trail conditions).

Take it with a grain of salt, not as gospel. Do research beyond this machine and make your own informed decisions.
Your right, its not "REAL"world or gospel, but Mr. Longfields parts are extremely SICK and well worth every penny for the piece of mind!
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Old 05-04-2007, 08:19 PM   #59 (permalink)
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so you break RP or inner shafts or??
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:53 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Bobby's machine vs. the calculator

Quote:
Originally Posted by Billavista dana 60 bible
How strong are the different axle shafts?
(note these figures are subject to much debate)

Standard Dana axles (1040 steel, induction hardened)
-30 sp 1.31" 6,044.1 ft/lbs
-35 sp 1.50" 8,966.2 ft/lbs.

Moser Engineering (1541m, induction hardened)
-30 Spline - 6,200 ft/ lbs.
-35 spline - 9,600 ft/lbs.

Aftermarket 4340 steel, thru hardened
-30sp 1.31" 9,923.5 ft/lbs
-35 sp 1.5" 14,721 ft/lbs

The Formula is:
Yield Torque (in/lb)= Tensile Strength ( psi) x polar moment of inertia/ radius of material

The theoretical axle size by spline to percent strength increase, assuming same material, diameter, and heat treat is: 30 spline � 35 spline: ~40%
I was reading the Dana 60 Bible again today and thought this was pretty interesting information. I think it puts Bobby's machine decently close to engineering estimates. The toy axle shaft is 1.30" for reference and therefore should be pretty close to the 30 spline dana 60 strength stock or alloy.

This also should give a bearing as to strength of the shafts of other axles as well...
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Old 07-27-2007, 11:45 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Bobby, have you ever put you 30 spline toyota longfields in that machine and twisted them up to just before breadking point and leaving it there like an endurance test? Just a thought I had.
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Old 07-27-2007, 08:13 PM   #62 (permalink)
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I just put an FJ80 under my Tacoma but havent been able to test it out. It would be nice to see the compairison between the FJ 80 stock birf and the mini stock birf.

Here you go.

You can see the 80 bell is quite a bit larger.







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Old 07-28-2007, 10:59 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Yes we tryed brakeing the Dana 60 CVs. Our machine can't brake them it starts to bend the table of the machine.
How much twist and ft/lbs we're you at when you stopped the test?
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Old 07-29-2007, 08:15 AM   #64 (permalink)
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The Dana 60 CV 19,000 ft. lbs. about 100* of twist in the splines.
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Old 07-29-2007, 12:28 PM   #65 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Longfield View Post
The Dana 60 CV 19,000 ft. lbs. about 100* of twist in the splines.
That's a hell of an axle shaft. I got your 30 spline Toy stuff and if I had my K30 still I'd have a set of your 60 CVs. I hope you had a good birthday.
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Old 03-19-2008, 10:23 PM   #66 (permalink)
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Hope that everyone at the Jamboree liked the axle breaking demonstration. I really liked it and was really supprised at some of the results.
Here they are:


PRODUCT / ................................................. FT.LB. TORQUE/.... % TWIST
Yukon 4340 Dana 60 35 spline short side axle.........12,000 ..................130
Stock Dana 60 35 spline short side axle .................6,500 ....................35
Yukon 4340 Dana 44 30 spline short side axle ..........5,800 ...................35
Stock dana 44 30 spline........................................5,00 0.....................35
Yukon 4340 Birfield Eliminator kit (ear failure)............5,500......................50
Longfield 4340 30 spline (shaft failure)......................8,500............... ......175
Longfield 4340 27 spline........................................6,50 0.....................75
Stock Toyota Birfield.......................................... ..4,200 .....................45
Stock Toyota Inner Axle.......................................5,000 .....................45
All Pro "Profield"........................................ .......... 3,500 ....................30
Stock toyota Transfer Case Output Shaft.................2,500 ....................65
Longfield treated Transfer case output shaft.............2,500.....................20
Longfield 4340 Transfer Case Output Shaft...............4,000......................25
All Pro Transfer Case Output Shaft..........................2,500 ......................60
Marlin "treated" Transfer Case Output Shaft..............2,500 ......................10
Stock Toyota Hub............................................... .5,800/
Longfield Treated Toy Hub ....................................6,800/
Stock Toyota Flange............................................ .6,000/
Longfield 4340 Flange............................................ Didn't test


The sotck Dana 60 35 spline inner axles was 8,300 F.B. NOT 6,500 F.B.
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:00 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Bobby has there ever been talk or thoughts of building dana 44 cv's?
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Old 03-19-2008, 11:47 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Bobby has there ever been talk or thoughts of building dana 44 cv's?
No, your the first
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Old 04-15-2008, 02:52 AM   #69 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by ErikB
This is in no way an exact science. Nor does it show how they will actually perform in the real world. It doesn't take into consideration a lot of different factors like shock loads, fatigue, and others. It may not even be unbiased.

It is, however, about the closest way anyone has yet come up with though to make some ROUGH comparisons (with far fewer and more controlled variables than testing them on different rigs and trail conditions).

So this thread came up as a reference for breaking strengths for axles on another forum. This destructive testing is cool and I'd like to discuss the scientific accuracy of these numbers. Its a great piece to piece comparision but the torque numbers could possibly be fine tuned a little.

I see one obvious flaw in the formula given to bobby right away. Working force of a cylinder is not = to the pressure x diameter. Its = to pressure x effective area. More precise would be differential pressure x area but no need to split hairs. Area is greater than diameter.

I would like to calculate these numbers more accuratly or just double check them if you could tell me the diameter of the cyl and the sprocket you used to calculate the torque ratings and the pressure at the breaking point of any one shaft you may know off hand.

There is an exponential created by the design that we wont be able to calculate for but we can get closer.

Thanks

Last edited by psychobilly; 04-15-2008 at 02:54 AM.
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:12 PM   #70 (permalink)
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:16 PM   #71 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by psychobilly View Post
So this thread came up as a reference for breaking strengths for axles on another forum. This destructive testing is cool and I'd like to discuss the scientific accuracy of these numbers. Its a great piece to piece comparision but the torque numbers could possibly be fine tuned a little.

I see one obvious flaw in the formula given to bobby right away. Working force of a cylinder is not = to the pressure x diameter. Its = to pressure x effective area. More precise would be differential pressure x area but no need to split hairs. Area is greater than diameter.

I would like to calculate these numbers more accuratly or just double check them if you could tell me the diameter of the cyl and the sprocket you used to calculate the torque ratings and the pressure at the breaking point of any one shaft you may know off hand.

There is an exponential created by the design that we wont be able to calculate for but we can get closer.

Thanks
WOW! Your right it is not rocket science, we have had 3 different companies check this for us. I built the machine and we took it to Hydraulics Northwest in Tacoma WA, then I sent all the information, like cylinder diameter, sprocket diameter, line pressure to the engineers that make our products in Rockford, IL. They calculated it for us also. They amazingly came up with really close numbers to the hydraulic place. I suppose you could build one identical to this machine and put them side by side and you probably would not get the same breakage numbers. But who cares. If you sent me 3 axles marked A, B, & C for me like a lot of people do to run blind tests. If C breaks 10 numbers higher than A and twists 5 numbers higher, then you can figured it is a better axle. So who cares if this is accurate enough for the other engineers that are trying to figure it out. Rockford has been building axles for years and has one similar, and their numbers are pretty close to this one. I guess somebody can build one and see if it is fairly close to this one.

Ok the cylinder is 4" in diameter, Sproket is 12" in diameter and they did figure the area and the key to this whole mathematical mess is the line pressure. Which you engineers are going to have to figure out on your own.
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Old 04-17-2008, 10:49 PM   #72 (permalink)
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Hey Bobby how much stronger is a rear FF shaft than a SF shaft (granted they are the same 4340 material)? I know a FF shaft is stronger in the way that the weight of the vehicle doesn't rest on it, however, if you put one in the machine do you think you would get similar results? Also what about a 300M FF shaft? (really how much stronger is it than 4340?) Just trying to figure out if going FF in the rear is worth it...
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Old 04-18-2008, 10:56 AM   #73 (permalink)
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flame me if i am wrong, but a SF shaft does not have any weight on it, the weight is suported by the bearings and iner lip of axle housing.... at least thats how i unter stand it.
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Old 04-18-2008, 12:34 PM   #74 (permalink)
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flame me if i am wrong, but a SF shaft does not have any weight on it, the weight is suported by the bearings and iner lip of axle housing.... at least thats how i unter stand it.
Sorry but no... The axle shaft supports the weight of the vehicle. Ever wonder why it has wheel studs in it? The bearing start supporting the weight as it enters the housing, however, from the bearing out, the weight is supported by the shaft. That's why after a hard landing you might bend the shaft causing a wobble in the tire.

This is where a FF rear end is superior to a SF rear end... The shaft isn't loaded by the weight of the vehicle, only the torque from the engine and tires.

Last edited by 01rocktaco; 04-18-2008 at 12:35 PM.
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Old 04-30-2008, 09:45 PM   #75 (permalink)
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Tried Rockwell stuff?
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