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Diamonds vs. 60s

5K views 54 replies 20 participants last post by  Haggar 
#1 ·
I am still trying to decide on what axles to use for my sas. i want a very strong axle that will be used as a daily driver, rock crawler, and desert runner. i will use coil overs as well. would my best bet be diamonds front and rear or 60s front and rear? thanks for any help.
 
#7 ·
Diamonds use stock steering joints though dont they? maybe im wrong. very distinct possiblility. are longs as strong as 60 joints?
 
#8 ·
Diamonds can use any steering knuckle or drop in 3rd you want. And be made to any width that you want.

Any combination of 9"/Toy Mini/Tundra/Cruiser dif coupled with either CV's or U joints and 60 Knuckles/Toy Mini/Cruiser knuckles.

You will never have to worry about the housing folding up on you. After two years of absolutely stupid abuse, I can make mine look new in 30 minutes with a flapper wheel and a can of paint.
 
#10 ·
sooo i can get a diamond houseing cut to my prefered lenghth, get it, weld 60 outers on, have a cheaper version of a rebuilt 60?
 
#14 ·
I think that running 60's for a dd wont be as good as a diamond if you look at it that way, ur going to have to put some money into a mc and roters and calipers etc to get a good brake system and then the 60's are going to be a lot heavier and with a 22r/re(asuming what you have) that's the last thing you want IMHO.
 
#16 ·
60/9's or full 60's are what I want and would do if I started from scratch ever again. But did the slow toy axle build up like everyone else.

All though I'm very impressed with JRT's 8.4" chunks and toy outers which could be an option if i found cheap enough 8.4 chunks.
 
#17 ·
thanks everyone. so im leaning towards the 9/60 diamond with longs for joints? or sould i go with 60 joints. im lookin for strenght and durability not bling. the longs do have the warrenty though. when i tell him a axle width when i want a 65" mount to mount width what do i tell him. i have the 3.slow. also what am i looking at price ways for a 9/60 diamond front and a 60 diamond rear? thanks
 
#19 ·
One more note. All that stuff above is the objective side. Purely subjective... my favorite thing about a Diamond is when I was building my buggy, I could weld anywhere for as long as I wanted with as much heat as necessary without any fear of warping the housing or dealing with welding to cast. IMHO that was huge. Also the time involved with finding and picking up a used housing and then cleaning and stripping it before you can even start working on it.

As far as strength. The toy housings are stamped sheet metal. They bend, everyone knows that. Stock 60 stuff is pretty damn stout, but you are much more likely to spin or bend a tube on a 60 then you will ever do on a high end fab'd housing.

Plus, they look cool :flipoff2:

Off the soap box

d
 
#20 ·
wow. thanks for the price comparison. nice reserch ect......anybody wanna loan me some dough. ive got about 2100.:D. oh, by the way. i get my licence in september.:laughing: im working alot to but i think my sas is a few years off.
 
#22 · (Edited)
you could have a decent diamond for 2100.

used complete axle for 300 - seen a few in norcal in the classifieds.
diamond toyota axle with 30 splines shouldnt be more that 1800.

it wont be the top of the line bling but get you rollin.
 
#24 ·
for a link coil over should i go with the diamond 9/60 or a diamond toy. would it be worth the extra money to go with the 9/60?
 
#27 ·
Basically, everyone will tell you what they'd do, usually without thinking of your situation.

You'd mentioned DD, Rock Crawler, and Deset runner, with coilovers.

No mention of tire size at all. No mention of engine, trans, expected gearing, etc.

Basically consider this:

How wide do you want to be?
Are you now, or the people you are with breaking mostly shafts and joints, or breaking ring and pinions, too?
Are you a finesse driver or on/off throttle jockey?

IMO, I'd prefer a diamond front, and your choice of rear, depending on what you want.

My reasons:

On a daily driver, I personally wouldn't want *full* width, i.e like 65-67" WMS. I also wouldn't want to lug about 600 extra lbs of axle around. Most of our trucks are slow enough already.

On a desert runner, I'd also want the diamonds. You aren't going to damage one of those housings. The axle tubes are big (standard is 3.25" with 0.375" wall, and high quality tubing), the center section is 1/4" thick plate, knuckle gussets, etc. You want less unspring weight so your suspension can react. A diamond axle is around 40-50 lbs heavier than stock toyota. A Dana 60 or 14b is around 300 lbs heavier than stock toyota. The ground clearance on a diamond is excellent, better than stock.

For rock crawling, its your choice. Above 39s or so, I'd rule out any toy stuff, though, unless you are very light.


Me, for my situation, I bought a 6" wider than stock diamond housing. For now, I'll use an IFS rear with spacers, but move to a full float kit (still keeping spacers) when I get a chance. So I'll be around 62" wms front/61.5" rear. Right where I want it to be. I might get a taco rear with the stronger R&P, though, they are around 60.75" wide.

This is with 38.5" SXs for the truck. With 36" SXs, I'm not breaking parts with how *I* wheel. So I feel comfortable moving up. And since I already have a built front, and I don't want to go bigger than 38.5s, a diamond makes a lot of sense.



Myself, if I was starting from scratch, I'd think about diamonds with taco center sections. I already have built older 8-inch chunks, so I'll run what I have...
 
#38 ·
I also wouldn't want to lug about 600 extra lbs of axle around
I gathered some different axle wights the other day. I didn't find factory numbers, but I think this should give you an idea.
Code:
Axle weights:

[U]stock fronts[/U]
zuk                   - 165
toy                   - 220
Dana 30               - 230 (tj)
dana 44               - 350 (79 bronco 60" wms)
dana 60               - 500
mog 4o4               - 600
Mog 406               - 650
U1300                 - 710
Military UAZ Portal   - 340 pounds (europe)
volvo portals         - 600 (total for front and rear with discbrakes)

[U]custom fronts[/U]
stock toy front housing (for comparison) 55-60
diamond toy- 350 (62" wms, fully built) Housing only w/ 3/8" wall 3.5" dia tubes would be 75-80 lbs
Diamond 609 front 95 housing only Dedenbear C's, 3/8" wall 3.5" dia tubes 62" wms
9 inch/416 Mog Portals, 5 on 5 1/2, Wilwood Disc brakes, Stange center section, 35 spline shafts, ARB - 397
dana 60 355 (camo version:gun drilled axles, aluminum hubs, aluminum calipers, thin wall cromolly tubes, and lots of $$$)

[U]stock rears[/U]
Zuk                   - 130
Toy                   - 150
ford 9                - 200-250 (full width)
Dana 44               - 150-250 (tj)
dana 60               - 320 (old jeep p/u)
Dana 70HD             - 480 (wide track unit DRW)
Corp 14FF             - 550 (14 bolt bible)  -different tube sizes may weigh less
mog 404               - 550
mog 406               - 620
military UAZ portal   - 300 (europe)
volvo portals         - 600 (total for front and rear with discbrakes)

[U]custom rears[/U]
Stock tacoma housing 60?
Diamond toy 75-80
Trail gear 58 1/4" wall. 55" width? (maybe 58)
Diamond 9" 75-80 Housing only w/ 3/8" wall 3.5" dia tubes
Dana 60 250 (camo version:gun drilled axles, aluminum hubs, aluminum calipers, thin wall cromolly tubes, and lots of $$$
)
Corp 14FF complete axle w/ disc brakes: 475? (varies depending on drum size)
Here are a few links that I used as refernce.
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=228355
http://coloradok5.com/forums/showthread.php?t=55499&highlight=weight
http://pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=354647

Conclusion. A 60 front and 14 bolt rear adds ~500 lbs over a toy. That sure seems like a lot of weight to drag up a waterfall...

If I had it to do over it would be 9" f/r. 60 outers front. But my toy stuff has yet to fail.
 
#28 ·
Plus, my usual answer to this stuff:


If you don't know if you want a 7.8" ring gear, or a 9"+ ring gear, then whatever your plan is, its out of your league and you need to wheel something smaller until you can answer your own questions...:laughing::flipoff2:
 
#31 · (Edited)
alright then: 91 4runner, 3.slow. looking at 35s possibly 37s depending on lift/handling, about 62 inch mount to mount axle width,auto as of now. soon to be manual, probably 5.29s. full bodied, well obviously. my dad just finished a half jeep half buggy cj5 with d60 rear 44 front, 37s, arbs, so ill hav no lack of wheeling, i just want a vehicle i can take wheeling wherever without a trailer. after reading everything im leaning towards diamond 8.4 inch pumpkin with toy outers and longs for the price. plenty strong for 37s. Then eventualy diamond rear. arbs, all that good stuff.
 
#50 ·
alright then: 91 4runner, 3.slow. looking at 35s possibly 37s depending on lift/handling, about 62 inch mount to mount axle width
With 35's or 37's a 60 in my opninion is overkill, not saying there is anything wrong with overkill strength, but you will have no ground clearence, might as well just go diamond all toyota. Doesnt sound like you'll be trashing it too hard anyhow
 
#41 · (Edited)
As much as I would love to have a diamond 9/60............................I have to ask the question.............will the r&p hold up to full body cruiser with a 400hp sbc, 42 in Irocs, and my 165lb right foot? Yes, it's linked & coilovers, semi DD, desert runner, / crawler.:smokin:
























(hopefully!!!!:laughing: someday!!!!!):flipoff2:
 
#43 · (Edited)
As much as I would love to have a diamond 9/60............................I have to ask the question.............will the r&p hold up to full body cruiser with a 400hp sbc, 42 in Irocs, and my 165lb right foot? Yes, it's linked & coilovers, semi DD, desert runner, / crawler.:smokin:

(hopefully!!!!:laughing: someday!!!!!):flipoff2:
it holds up to scott ellinger. right behind you on the some day
 
#54 ·
I have to say that I was surprised at how much power my 22re had with the D60/14B axles and 40" meat. I had no problem spinning them at all (two stock transfer-cases and 5.38 gears.) On the road it got up to speed fairly easy but I do have an L C Cam in a fairly fresh engine.

Would I want it for a DD? No, but if I were to build my 86 4 runner DD for the trails also I would do it on the cheap - something like a set of Scout D44's. I've seen these punished HARD under the full size original Scouts and am always amazed at how well they hold up. I can get stock front and rear Scouts for $200 then set them up. I would go this route before dropping one cent in the Toy tin cans again.
 
#55 ·
something like a set of Scout D44's. I've seen these punished HARD under the full size original Scouts and am always amazed at how well they hold up. I can get stock front and rear Scouts for $200 then set them up. I would go this route before dropping one cent in the Toy tin cans again.
Yeah, back in the day, before everyone went hardcore, we used scout 44s under everything. Plenty of guys in my club ran scout 44s with 38.5s-40s in their CJs.
 
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