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Old 07-23-2007, 07:31 PM   #1 (permalink)
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22R compression ratios

I had to pull the head off of my brother's 22R tonight to fix an external head gasket leak and while it's off I'm going to take it to the machine shop to have it checked out and freshened up. The buggy runs on propane and I thought while it was over there I might as well shave the head to boost the compression ratio to get some cheap power. I am an American engine guy though and didn't know if there was any reason I shouldn't / couldn't do this with his 22R. has anyone done this before? If so, did you notice a gain in power? What is stock compression ratio on a 22R and how high can you go before things start to break down?

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Old 07-23-2007, 07:41 PM   #2 (permalink)
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9-9.4:1 is typical stock compression.
Much more than that you'll have to consider premium gas...
Propane, clearly not an issue - might ask gotpropane what they recommend.

Note, significantly cutting the head will impact cam timing, so there are limits even with adjustable cam sprockets...

Might talk to DOA or one of the other engine vendors about what they recommend.
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Old 07-24-2007, 08:11 AM   #3 (permalink)
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Here are the compression figures:

20R: 8.4:1
22R: 9.0:1
22R-E: 9.0:1
22R-TE: 7.5:1

I don't think shaving the head will up the compression ratio to much of a noticable difference. What, like 0.2:1 higher maybe? It should broaden your power band though.

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Old 07-24-2007, 09:19 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by BigMike View Post
Here are the compression figures:

20R: 8.4:1
22R: 9.0:1
22R-E: 9.0:1
22R-TE: 7.5:1

I don't think shaving the head will up the compression ratio to much of a noticable difference. What, like 0.2:1 higher maybe? It should broaden your power band though.

BigMike
Why do you say that? Depending on how much you shave on an American motor it can make fairly large differences. Why would it be any different on a 22R?

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Old 07-24-2007, 09:31 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Oh, I just got what you were saying. The small amount I would be able to shave and still not affect cam shaft timming would be minimal. Gotcha.

I spoke to a machine shop just now. They say .015" - .020" would be max. before they would begin worrying about cam timing.

I almost think that's its not even worth it now, you're right.

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Old 07-24-2007, 09:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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Remember on an American motor, assuming you are talking about a V6/V8, there are two cylinder heads and more surface area to shave off than on the 22R.

I'm sure if you dyno the engine before and after, there would be a power increase if you could hold all other variables constant, but will you notice it in you "ass dyno" that is the real question.
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Old 07-24-2007, 11:12 AM   #7 (permalink)
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shave the head where you need to grind the block pins down, take a link out of the chain and you should be happy. Timing will be a little advanced thou.
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:05 PM   #8 (permalink)
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what is everyone else running as far as performance parts for propane motors...and what would be the cheapest performance mods for propane
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:05 PM   #9 (permalink)
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what is everyone else running as far as performance parts for propane motors...and what would be the cheapest performance mods for propane motors...thanks
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Old 07-24-2007, 07:42 PM   #10 (permalink)
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shave the head where you need to grind the block pins down, take a link out of the chain and you should be happy. Timing will be a little advanced thou.
yikes!! i smell a bent valve
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Old 07-24-2007, 10:25 PM   #11 (permalink)
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I ran a LC pro EFI head with .025 taken off(no choice pore in casting), a Lc pro EFI cam and adjustable cam gear. Noticed no difference really after being decked that hard.
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Old 07-25-2007, 06:31 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Yeah, after this thread and other info that I've read elsewhere, I'm thinking that there's not going to be much, if any, power gain and a) it's not worth the money and b) not worth the possible headaches.

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Old 07-25-2007, 09:33 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The later 22RE heads don't have a lot of volume in the head itself. You'd get more by decking the block the same amount, because its got more area than the chamber in the head.

Milling the head is fairly common in honda/imports, but its not a big jump. Taking off 0.030" on a honda head usually nets around 0.5 bump in CR. You'd maybe see 0.2 - 0.3 (my guess) on a late style 22RE because of the shape of the chambers, which would maybe add 2-3 ft-lbs. When we were building race hondas (closed course road racing), certain classes require stock pistons but allow head milling, so we'd do it to gain some edge.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:21 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Bringing this back up for discussion. Been doing a lot of reading about 22R/RE/Turbo builds.

I've acquired a GotPropane kit, and am looking to to build a motor. Not sure what direction I want to go.

I've got a bunch of engines/parts that I could possibly combine:
1 tall deck 82 22R
1 22RTE long block (no turbo manifold)
1 short deck 85 22R
2 87? 22RE


I'm thinking put 22RE rotating assembly in the RTE block to bump the compression and utilize the factory turbo oil/coolant ports. Then building a turbo exhaust manifold and using a draw through setup on a turbo.
^I figure this would work fine and make decent power for relatively cheap. I'd need to source a turbo though.



I've also entertained the IDEA of building a high compression 22R and running the propane kit. I know of several HIGH compression small blocks that people run on propane around here (12-13:1).

Is it even possible to build a 22R with that compression ratio? I was thinking the tall deck block with the domed pistons + 22RE head, have to cut the pistons down for head/valve clearance? Anyone ever looked into this or have any kind of power estimate on a high compression 22R on propane?

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Old 05-31-2012, 09:29 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Seems like it would be easier to source some high compression pistons for the short deck and use those as they would match the head.

Guess it depends how much you would need to cut off the domed piston, then design of the combustion chamber to get good flow and still have enough meat on the piston to just not burn up.

Ultimately i personally think it would be easier to tune the turbo setup to get as much air/fuel as you want in there.
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Old 05-31-2012, 09:38 AM   #16 (permalink)
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The rte with turbo and pane with 8-10 psi boost should make good reliable power.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:17 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Quote:
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The rte with turbo and pane with 8-10 psi boost should make good reliable power.
That's what I was thinking... With RTE block with RE pistons to get the comp ratio up and build torque faster. The propane should take care of pre-detonation.

I've looked at Mr.Stubs Blueberry Krunch build, planning to do something similar, except build my own turbo manifold and use the RTE block for convenience.
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:37 PM   #18 (permalink)
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except build my own turbo manifold and use the RTE block for convenience.
I like the idea of using the RTE block. I should have but sold mine before I decided to go turbo

You should know how I vote......
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Old 05-31-2012, 08:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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I just found this in my note book /forum/toyota-truck-4runner/760711-mr-stubs-notebook.html





franzh (Automotive)

Propane has an octane level and fuel sensitivity levels that prohibits it from being used in CI engines with a static compression ratio much over 16.5 to 1.
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Old 06-01-2012, 10:12 AM   #20 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I just found this in my note book http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=760711





franzh (Automotive)

Propane has an octane level and fuel sensitivity levels that prohibits it from being used in CI engines with a static compression ratio much over 16.5 to 1.
You're notebook and build thread is really helpful.

I'll probably start looking for a turbo soon. I think it'll be the better option.


I was just curious if it was even possible to build a stupid high compression 13-14:1 22R, with modified stock parts, run it on propane, and make ~150hp.

But I can most likely make ~200hp with the RTE block w/ RE pistons.

I guess I'll use the RTE head and cam? I assume they are different, at least the cam? since it was designed for boost?

Off to do more research.
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