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Old 12-05-2007, 07:53 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Full Floater Conversion

Full floater conversion

I'm doing a full floater conversion from Front Range Offroad Fab on the rear of my toy I searched for a write up but couldn't find one so I figured id do one.


From Front Range
What is a full floater conversion and why...
The factory Toyota rear axles are a semi-floating design. In this design, the load is spread over 2 components. One is the wheel bearing, the other is the axle shaft itself. The load taken by the axle shaft then gets transmitted to the carrier bearings inside the differential. These axle shafts are also only held in by the press fit bearing on the axle shaft. When this bearing wears out, there is nothing left to hold the entire assembly to the housing, and it promptly leaves the vehicle, tire and axle shaft all together. Also, should an axle shaft break, the bearing will hold the axle in until the twisting force now put on it destroys the bearing. Since the wheel bearings were never designed to take a twisting force, the bearing fails shortly after the axle shaft. Also, the drum brakes leave something to be desired. They fill up with mud easily, quickly destroying the shoes and drums. The adjusters for them seem to wear out quickly, lessening their effectiveness even more.
On a full-floating axle design, the load on the tire is placed 100% on a pair of wheel bearings. The axle shaft is only used to drive the wheel, not take the weight of the vehicle. When a wheel bearing fails, the tire does not leave the vehicle because the bearings are tapered roller, and held on by 2 spindle nuts. The wheel/hub assembly can wobble, significantly, and the wheel still will not come off. Also, with the full-floating design, an axle shaft can fail, and will not affect any other part. Should an axle shaft break, the pieces should be removed, but the hub assembly and brakes will not be affected.
The full-floater conversion kit also integrates locking hubs on the rear axle, which can be unlocked for flat-towing the vehicle. DO NOT USE WARN, MILEMARKER OR OTHER AFTERMARKET LOCKING HUBS!! These hubs are MUCH weaker than the Aisin hubs and our drive flanges. They also do not allow proper spline engagement into the differential.
With the disk brake conversion, mud and water are much less of an issue, as disks self-clean very quickly and efficiently. The calipers this conversion kit was designed with also have an e-brake internally, and a bracket is supplied to hook the calipers to the factory e-brake cable. All that is required to adjust them is to use the e-brake. Each use of the e-brake adjusts the calipers internal stops.
We often get asked "What other benefits does a Full-Floating axle have, that I should convert to one?" Well, like they say, a picture is worth 1,000 words. Here's the left rear axle shaft in our Tacoma, after just 3 trail runs. This runout translates to about 3/8-1/2" wobble in the tire. This not only wears tires funny, but rapidly destroys a drum or disk brake (imagine a rotor with .120 runout!), and eats wheel bearings for lunch. With a Full-Floating axle, this simply cannot happen. And no, the truck was not jumped, or hopped on obstacles at all.

FAQ
Q: Do I need a larger master cylinder to push enough fluid to the new calipers?
A: No, the calipers are a great match with the factory M/C. The pedal feel is almost identical to properly setup drum brakes, except the truck stops quicker.
Q: Do I need a Residual Valve?
A: No, because there is no rotor run out (wobble), and there is a mechanical e-brake in the caliper, so the caliper maintains its correct adjustment. With other disk brake kits, the play in the wheel bearing causes the rotor to wobble. This play pushes the caliper piston back into its bore. The residual valve maintains a small amount of pressure to the calipers, to prevent the piston from being pushed very far back into its bore.
Q: What’s involved in installing a Full-Floater Conversion Kit?
A: All that is required is to remove your stock axle and brakes. From there, start bolting on the new parts. There is no welding or cutting required. No special tools are required.
Q: Will the Full-Floater Conversion Kit work on a truck equipped with ABS?
A: On ABS equipped trucks the ABS must be bypassed. Please call for more information.


So the kit is available in two different forms one kit that uses supra rotors and calipers and a kit that uses solid axle rotor and calipers. I opted for the kit that uses toy rotors and calipers.

This kit uses stock straight axle front calipers, rotors, and backing plates (dust shields).

The kit comes with
adapter for mounting spindles
new shafts (not pictured)
inner axle seals
studs
and that's it
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:54 PM   #2 (permalink)
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You need to supply
Factory wheel bearings for '79-'95 front axles (inner and outer) Factory hubs from '81-'85 solid axle truck Factory locking hubs from '79-'85 truck Inner wheel bearing seal. Stock '79-'85 front spindles. "Loaded" calipers from solid axle truck. Wheel studs (normally can be reused) Rotor to hub bolts (easily reused, 2 per side) Solid axle rotors proportioning valve
Optional but why not
ARP hub studs
Tcase Ebrake


Heresy some helpful links
http://www.birfield.com/~morgan/tech/axle/index.html covers a complete tear down of a front axle
http://frontrangeoffroadfab.com/nfos...8815185b23ea6b this is where you can buy the kit
http://www.4x4wire.com/toyota/reviews/fullfloater/ another article on installing the full floater
http://www.4wdtoyotaowner.com/ bitchn all Toyota magazine that also features this upgrade in this months edition
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:56 PM   #3 (permalink)
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OK here we go (not all the pics are mine)

Start by putting the truck on jack stands drain the gear oil and pull the wheels off the truck.

Pull the cotter pin on the back of the drum and remove the ebrake cable.

Use a 10mm wrench and disconnect the hard brake line from the drum and use a vacuum cap to stop the line from leaking. Make sure the caps are on tight I had one pop off and the master ran dry so I had to bench bleed the master cyl.

Pull the four bolts on the back of the axle housing I think there 14mm. SAVE THE NUTS they are reused.

Pull the axles all the way out and stand them on end.

Remove the seal on the end of the axle tube.

Then remove the O-ring and clean up the surface.

Take your new adapter to the press or to a shop and have the 4 new studs pressed in. Thanks ZUK.
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:57 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Place the adapter on the axle tube and secure with the 4 nuts.

Put a new o ring in and tighten to 51 ft-lbs.
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Old 12-05-2007, 07:58 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Pull the stickers off and clean off any burrs that are on the splines.

Grease the differential side of the splines (snap ring goes towards hub) and slide it into the housing.

Drive out the brass bushings on the inside of the spindles. I used a flat head screwdriver and hammer. be sure not to gall the inside of the spindles.

Press in the new seals they are aluminum be very careful not to damage them use lots of grease. make sure there is plenty of grease on the seal before you bolt the spindle on.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:00 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Grease the axle splines at the hub and all along the axle shaft where the new seal will ride. You will damage the new seal if you do not. You will want to install the spindle very slowly and carefully over the splines to not damage the seal on the sharp edges.

You can go two routes just RTV the adapter and put the spindle on or use some OEM seals to keep more moisture out. I live in AZ so we only see about a 1/4inch of rain a year so I just RTVd it and called it a day.

If you go the RTV route RTV the the adapter and slide the spindle on then the backing plate and torque the bolts to 29-39 ft-lbs.Throw on some backing plate eliminators plates. I didn't have any on hand but had a few extra backing plates I decided to trim them down for a cleaner look. well I didn't trim them down Tim did. He was nice enough to bead blast them and paint them.
Picture is of the spindle with backing plate and seal in place
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:01 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Or use an OEM seal to keep grime and water away from the inner bearing seal. The white gasket goes on the adapter first, then the spindle and the caliper backing plate center section, next the gray gasket, and finally the extra seal. throw the bolts on and torque to 29-39 ft-lbs

Next install the races, and inner bearing and inner bearing seal on the hub and proceeded to slide it onto the spindle. Make sure use plenty of grease on the extra seal and the outer surface of the hub to keep that seal lubricated.

Install 54mm nut, lock washer, and 54mm nut
ya ya I know those rotors are nasty but they were thick enough cleaned them up with some brake cleaner before I bolted it all together.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:02 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Bolt the hub body on using the 12mm nuts and come washers

Install the snap rings provided TIP I couldn't get the snap ring on at first there wasn't enough of the axle showing trough the hub body so I pulled the axle/hub body partly out and put the snap ring on then slid it back in place as one big unit.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:02 PM   #9 (permalink)
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You can now install either drive flanges or manual lockout hubs I had an extra set of locking hubs sitting around so I cleaned them up rebuilt them and put new hub studs in. I gave them some new paint and put them on using the 10mm bolts The locking hubs should work if they don't ill swap to drive flanges. It would also be good to swap in some longfield hub gears.

On to the brakes put the calipers on the rotors and use two 17mm bolts to secure it.

I used my stock hard brake lines just curled them and installed into the caliper 10mm. Have a friend come over and bleed the brakes Thanks Tim.

Next bolt on the rim/tire. and your done.
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:04 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Road test... took the truck out and made some hard stops. The braking is pretty impressive when I get after it the truck really stops.

Impressions the kit is a trick upgrade to your Toyota. I needed a beefier set of axles and wanted disk brakes this kit did it both. I could see this kit being very spendy once you factor in the kit 670.00 plus all the front end gear. I had basically everything I needed laying in my garage, so it worked out for me.

You could easily upgrade to ifs rotors and calipers and get the truck to really stop. I just used solid axle rotors because I had a set in the garage plus I just have a tube bed with no weight and I don't daily drive it.

I picked up a proportioning valve from summit haven't installed it yet but I'm sure it will help fine tune the brakes.

You will need some sort of ebrake system I ordered one from all pro and plan on installing it this weekend.

I'm not sure if I'm going to keep locking hubs out back or swap to drive flanges. the hubs sit pretty far out... they are still inside the rim but I'm sure they will take a beating. The wow factor alone might be worth keeping them though, the stares and pointing are
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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there you go I hope that helps someone... ill post some pics of the ebrake set up and the prop valve when I install those. Ill also post more info on how it handles on the trail. I would imagine it will do great. very easy install if you have ever taken apart a front toy axle. just sucks doing the work in the dirt.

You can pm me if you have any questions before or during the swap to your truck

Jeremy
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Old 12-05-2007, 08:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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What do you use as a spare axle shaft in the rear if you snap one?
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
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You don't, you unlock that side and roll on the other(assuming a spool or other full time locker). The only way to have a spare is to order an extra one.
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Old 12-05-2007, 09:23 PM   #14 (permalink)
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That's what I was figuring, but I didn't see spare axle shafts listed on FROR's page.

For such a simple kit it seems to cost a ton, the axle shafts must be pricey since I assume that's where the bulk of it comes from.
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Old 12-05-2007, 11:13 PM   #15 (permalink)
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I asked them once and I think they said it was $150 for a spare.

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Old 12-06-2007, 05:25 AM   #16 (permalink)
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well woth it my friend has it on his and I will soon. Thanks for the write up.
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Old 12-06-2007, 08:39 AM   #17 (permalink)
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as far as a spare goes do you carry a spare stock shaft? it would be a good idea to have one back at your home base just in case.
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
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i'd be more worried about the manual locking hub or hub studs before the shafts.

gotta love the full float, tear down and install was QUICK on mine
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Old 12-06-2007, 06:41 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Question for "scheider591". Could you let us know what its like to drive on road with one unlocked rear hub? Ive heard that it is works but is very scetchy.
It would be nice for a daily driver though.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:11 PM   #20 (permalink)
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is the strength comparable to stock?
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:50 PM   #21 (permalink)
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is the strength comparable to stock?
ask brian ellinger. he has all the actual factuals, but if a shaft goes on a rear toy axle and you have no spare, you are fukt not so with a full float.
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Old 12-06-2007, 07:53 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Question for "scheider591". Could you let us know what its like to drive on road with one unlocked rear hub? Ive heard that it is works but is very scetchy.
It would be nice for a daily driver though.
it will get you home , BUT, you will want to take it easy on the go fast peddle. pushes tward(SP?) the unlocked side, especially on acceleration.
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Old 12-06-2007, 09:54 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Quote:
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Question for "scheider591". Could you let us know what its like to drive on road with one unlocked rear hub? Ive heard that it is works but is very scetchy.
It would be nice for a daily driver though.
Its a little fun in the rain. Sends you sideways in the direction of the one side that is locked.

I installed Bobby Longs hub gears in all 4 of my hubs. I've spun on wet and dry pavement, gased it up some soft dry hills dill I was bogged down in my ruts, pulled people out of wholes, and god know what else. I've pulled everything apart since and have found little wear on anything. The one key thing with this kit is to get your bearing drag correct on the inner and outer wheel bearings. I do use a detroit locker in the rear and I have had it "unlock" from time to time on dry pavement and it does scare the shit out of you the first few times but you'll get over it. Good write up. I'll post up some of my own pics and show a few more details.
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Old 12-06-2007, 10:10 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Here's Drivers side:

No one needs to get scared this is the correct clearance between the caliper mounting bracket and the rotor although it looks a little close.

Now I didnt use the supra calipers cause I was hearing that after a few dips in the mud the parking break mechanism didnt handle the abuse all that well. The calipers are expensive as all hell to boot! So I grabed some 87' 4 cyl. IFS calipers ( there is a casting difference and piston difference between the 4 cyl and the 6 cyl ). I didnt have to use wheel spacers on the back to cover the vented rotors I was using, but you could do this whole kit with the solid rotors and the straight axle calipers if you chose too.


The photos of the calipers are while they were on my front axle, but for argument sakes you can see the difference at the wheel mounting point on the hub its self.
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Old 12-07-2007, 05:18 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Rockrat made me a full floater, it uses Longfield long-side 30 spline front inner shafts. When I get 30 spline Longfields for my front axle, 3 of the 4 shafts will be the same
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