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The Stock Runner build. stock height link suspenion.

80K views 192 replies 48 participants last post by  bk2life 
#1 · (Edited)
Gotta do the backstory of course....

Here's how it came home with me


First build consisted of welded rear, Aussie locked ifs, 4.7 tcase gears, and bud built crossmember. Mile Marker slow ass winch recessed in factory bumper. 285/75-16 Cooper STT (bad ass little tires)

 
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#2 ·
Then proceeded to do lots of wheelin all over the southeast.:grinpimp:
Destroyed most of the sheet metal. Broke piles of cv shafts, folded up lots of steering shit:mad3:



Fawked the front end all up. Built a new front bumper, put on an 83 model grille and round head lights. bobbed the rear end too about a foot.

 
#3 · (Edited)
Random pic on the trailer from this summer....

It's got dual cases now.:smokin: much better.




Finally broke the front diff, chewed up the aussie locker. I swapped an open front end back into it and got pissed off everytime I tried to go riding. I HATE open diffs.:mad3::mad3:
 
#4 ·
Cut that shit up!

There's my buddy Drunk Mike (DM) sizing up the Runner.


Pulled 'er in the shop 'round 3:00 yesterday. Got it set up on the 12 Ton jackstand, no concrete block-smash your fuckin' head- issues here! :flipoff2:



Whipped out the GiantTech 40amp plasma, buzzed the brackets off real close to the frame, and had it ground clean in about 3 hours and 12 Beast Ice's later:barf:

 
#5 ·
The axle.

I've had bad experiences with Toy axles in the past... Ripped off hi steer arms, crushed knuckle bearings, BROKE THE FAWK OFF knuckle ball:mad3:

I figured I'd bite the bullet again since I had a set of 30spline Longs already...

Front axle Specs:
83 housing
Gussets and shit (especailly knuckle balls!!!)
4.10 V6 Diff with Lock Right from JTOffroad
ARP knuckle studs and rebuild kit from Front Range Offroad
LOW STEER! (can't build a stock height w/ hi steer with out lots of frame mods)
IFS hubs
LC rotors
30 spline Longfields :grinpimp:



 
#8 ·
Swiped some links off my old truggy. Shopcat keeping guard.:mr-t:



Lower link mounts, some formed 1/4" plate 2" inside.




Lower links at ride height.



Lower links with axle layin on the ground...



Ride height.
 
#10 ·
The links are 22" eye to eye...

Kinda short, but geometry will be good, and they'll be almost flat at ride height.

That damn hump in the frame kept them from being longer. If I made them longer, they would have to be mounted lower, and I don't want to give up any more ground clearance esp. since I'm only running 33's (31.5" actual height :shaking:)

I think it'll work out ok.:homer:
 
#11 · (Edited)
Makes sense. I'm sure it will work fine, especially since the low ride height should help keep the angles decent and you probably won't be needing super long travel.

I think you stole my shopcat. :D
 
#14 ·
Axle is moved about 4" forward. 18.5" from body body mount bolt to center pin on my Runner, stock 85 model is about 22.5".

I had to move the axle forward to get any up travel at all. I'm about 3.5"-4" to the frame (as in metal on metal contact). :shaking:

If i could have moved the axle forward more up into the hump in the fram I'd be in better shape, but I wanted to keep the front clip intact. And I think trucks with the axle under the grill look stupid.:flipoff2:
 
#13 ·
Did a little more today.

Remember kids... Don't leave your metal outside when you life in a sub-tropical climate:homer: RUST:barf:

3/16 plate, plaz'd out some frame braces.


Frame plated where the coils will go. No cracked frame for me!:flipoff2: Also backed the engine mounts. You can kinda see the axle side panhard bar mount too. Plated the front of the diff and welded it to it.

 
#19 · (Edited)
Got some more done today...

My buddy Gabe came over in his new Cruiser after he got done slingin mail today.

Pretty sweet.
Alum. tub, full family cage, TBI 350, turbo350, 205 and .... :shaking: 1/2 ton dodge axles, D44, 9.25 with ARB, Detroit, 4.56 gears. (No he didn't build it, and plans to put tons in it...):flipoff2:


Anyway. :D
got the panhard bar and upper link in, all links tacked in place.


Upper link frame side mount, 3" 3/16" wall. welded a washer on the hole, welded nut on the inside of the mount and plaz'd a hole in the inner frame to clear it.


^yeah I gotta grind those old shock tabs off...
 
#24 ·
Flex joints from suicidedoors.com tapped into the links (had 'em left over from the truggy) and the rod ends that I sell.:smokin:

fwiw, i had my panhard mount about 6" past the drivers side frame rail and about 2" lower than the bottom of frame. helped a lot for bump steer with long travel. my axle panhard mount was about 8" above axle center line. hope it helps. cool build btw.
That's about how I had the panhard on my truggy. I'm not too worried about bump steer. Drag link and panhard will be almost spot on, Flat at ride height.

I'm gonna swing the box forward a few inches to clear the panhard for now. I'll be full hydro before summer time (damn i love full hydro steering):D
 
#23 ·
fwiw, i had my panhard mount about 6" past the drivers side frame rail and about 2" lower than the bottom of frame. helped a lot for bump steer with long travel. my axle panhard mount was about 8" above axle center line. hope it helps. cool build btw.
 
#25 · (Edited)
with stock height your going to be dealing with a different set of challenges. For what your tackling your right to build the suspension for down travel not up travel. That being said if you would like to get more up travel out of the lower link or give it more space to clearance the frame you could french the frame a little and plate it when you are done. You could also get a lot of clearance from that link by putting a bend in it. Sorry for the crude drawing and seeing as how you already put the upper where you could have outboarded the lower it may be too late or have you just tacked everything. French or notching the frame straight and true would be a bitch with an angle grinder but seeing as how you have access to a plasma cutter(lucky bastard) I would say you could accomplish it in a day or less. I know if you run it on the inside of the frame you lose triangulation but your running a panhard so its a no issue for you. Problem is most folks have brake lines/ fuel lines running on the inside of a frame rail usually. Not impossible to reroute but walks into the PITA no fun zone quickly.
Frenching it will raise the link angle to some degree which you can easily get back with a longer link. Difference now would be gained clearance of the link and it would be flush with the framerail. No hang ups forward or reverse. I got lazy on my build at this exact point will probably do it later. That being said longer flatter angles on the links are much more important in the rear than the front considering the different purposes the two serve. You will be completely fine with what you have and it should perform very well.

I think you might find later the steering geometry may get a little tough to juggle. You may want to consider a reverse cut box like one out of a scout or fj60 to make that problem going away without a lot of effort. I really like the fact that you are building something that when you make the line it was all driver.
Just my .02
 

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#26 ·
...if you would like to get more up travel out of the lower link or give it more space to clearance the frame you could french the frame a little and plate it when you are done. You could also get a lot of clearance from that link by putting a bend in it.

Sorry for the crude drawing and seeing as how you already put the upper where you could have outboarded the lower it may be too late or have you just tacked everything.

French or notching the frame straight and true would be a bitch with an angle grinder but seeing as how you have access to a plasma cutter(lucky bastard) I would say you could accomplish it in a day or less. I know if you run it on the inside of the frame you lose triangulation but your running a panhard so its a no issue for you. Problem is most folks have brake lines/ fuel lines running on the inside of a frame rail usually. Not impossible to reroute but walks into the PITA no fun zone quickly.
Frenching it will raise the link angle to some degree which you can easily get back with a longer link. Difference now would be gained clearance of the link and it would be flush with the framerail. No hang ups forward or reverse. I got lazy on my build at this exact point will probably do it later. That being said longer flatter angles on the links are much more important in the rear than the front considering the different purposes the two serve. You will be completely fine with what you have and it should perform very well.

I think you might find later the steering geometry may get a little tough to juggle. You may want to consider a reverse cut box like one out of a scout or fj60 to make that problem going away without a lot of effort. I really like the fact that you are building something that when you make the line it was all driver.
Just my .02
CAN'T have any more up travel with a Toy axle. Diff will hit the engine/starter.:mad3:

Lower links clear the frame fine, and my lower link mounts are mounted in about the same location as a leaf spring shackle, so I'm not worried about hang ups, as it doesn't hang down as much as a 5" shackle like most ppl use with a SAS.

The upper link axle mount swings up between the driver side engine mount and the coolant tube. Close.:flipoff2:

Even cutting the factory frame out and replacing with tube (like Chopperman did on his Runner) wouldn't help because the axle will hit the engine.:laughing:

Steering will not be an issue either.:D Box will be moved up to body mount, drag link connected to lo-steer tierod. A forward swing box would be completely impossible, as the coil spring will be in the way and the axle is way to close to the frame.

Like I said, full hydro by summer most likely.:grinpimp:
 
#27 ·
SO you've cycled the suspension and the lower not only clears the frame but all vitals except motor and started right?
If your gonna stay stock suspension your build parameter changes in the fact that instead of taller suspension you need ground clearance to compensate. Believe me when I say I wish I saw more rigs like yours. I really love the idea of clearancing problems rather than lifting them in the air. Move sheet metal and parts.
Now just a thought I know it raises COG a little bit but what about raising the motor just a little to gain all your potential movement in the link?
 
#28 ·
SO you've cycled the suspension and the lower not only clears the frame but all vitals except motor and started right?

Believe me when I say I wish I saw more rigs like yours. I really love the idea of clearancing problems rather than lifting them in the air. Move sheet metal and parts.

Now just a thought I know it raises COG a little bit but what about raising the motor just a little to gain all your potential movement in the link?
Yep, cycled it from full up, full down, full flex in both directions. (as in metal on metal, joints binding, full flex... more than it will see with bumpstops and shocks) all clears. Had to grind about 1/4" notch in the engine mount on the driver side.:grinpimp:

The edge of the diff hump hits the frame first on straight up travel. I will probably notch the frame a bit on the inside of the passenger side so I can get even up travel for each side, since there is nothing in the way on the driver side, I get about 3/4" more up travel.

3/4" is like a mile with a build like this. My panhard bar bolt head clears the axletube by 1/8". The panhard mount will actually go inbetween the axle tube and tierod at full driver side up travel.:smokin:

I could "c-notch" the frame for axle clearance and gain about 1/2" more up travel before the engine mount and entire pass. frame rail would have to go. Then I'd only have 1/4" to the oil pan.:( Doesn't seem worth the trouble...

The only "real" solution for lots of up travel and tire still in the wheel well is to do like Bent Fab and move the engine back into the firewall and let the axle come up in front of the crank pulley.


Thanks for the props.:grinpimp:
 
#29 ·
Oh yeah, and if you can afford to build a truck and go wheelin'. You can afford a plasma cutter. I only gave $400 for my GiantTech and it's been kick ass. My dad has a plasma cutter from Parker Metal Working (same looking little "blue box" model) and it's worked great for 3 years, I cut up almost 40,000lb of stainless food processing equipment to scrap it out right after we got it too.
 
#30 ·
Good points and considering uptravel is less important than down travel you seem to have a good game plan going. I want that panhard gusseted though:laughing: Up by the frame rail and just a little 45 degree tab for the one on the front of the pumpkin. Smart taking the diff cover plate and using it for your mounting point:p
 
#31 ·
I'm seriously considering a short coilover (F-O-A 2.0) 10" or 12" travel to make life easy.

On the F-O-A calculator I guessed 1200lb per corner sprung weight,
It suggested around 222lb/in for 10" travel and 60% droop, and 175lb/in primary rate for 12" travel at 70% droop.

I was wondering about running a single rate coil on the 10" travel shock??? any suggestions about this? *off to do more sirchin' on short coilovers!!!:flipoff2:
 
#34 ·
My 3rd gen 4runner (3.4 v6) is about 800lbs per corner unsprung in the front. I think your 1200lbs is ways off...

Make sure that PH mount fits between the axle and TR when stuffed AND steered to lock both ways because you don't want it getting caught in there.

A forward swing box is a pretty good option too. 4rnrrick did something similar to mine but with more mods for uptravel.
 

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