22RE timing issue - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum

marvilusone · 07-05-2009, 12:16 PM

Working on a friends 85 Runner and we're having an issue with the timing. For the engine to run it's best the timing mark on the crank is over at the 9 o'clock position on the pulley. It should be up near the 12 o'clock position. It runs good the way it is but it feels like it lacks some power. A very very slight miss at idle but good through the rest of the RPM's. If we try to set the timing according to the FSM it hardly runs at all. The rotor button lines up with the no. 1 terminal on the cap the way it is now. We're thinking the dist is a tooth off. The PO replaced the timing set. Could the tensioner be shot or is the dist a tooth off? IDK if the tensioner or guides were replaced by the PO and we have no way of getting in contact with him.

brownbagg · 07-05-2009, 12:55 PM

put the bottom pulley on zero. take vave cover off and look at the chain, see it the dot is 12 oclock

operose · 07-05-2009, 12:59 PM

you said you think the distributor is off a tooth -- did you move it a tooth in each direction and see what happens?

attitude of gratitud · 07-05-2009, 01:23 PM

pull the v/c and check your marks. if they're fine set the crank pulley at 5 degrees. pull the cap off and make sure it's aimed at #1. setting the crank at 5 degrees just always works easier on 22r's for putting the distributor in.

marvilusone · 07-05-2009, 03:40 PM

The distributor is in correct and the timing chain cheks out good. We found out that the timing T connector wasn't working because of the idle being too high and the TPS wasn't sensing that the throttle was closed and allowing the ECU to go into service mode. The timing is now spot on but there is still a minor miss at idle. We also did find some leaks at the intake ducting which would be throwing off the readings from the MAF and those are fixed. We're out of time for today so a test drive will have to wait until tomorrow.

NOODLES · 07-05-2009, 04:28 PM

maybe a spun balancer. it happens. pretty common.

uda · 07-05-2009, 11:32 PM

Its your TPS.........Its bad thats why it runs better at a different degree setting......I'm surprise no one has answered you on this...

I got money on my answer..Who else?

papa_jon · 07-06-2009, 07:21 PM

It was just idleing to high.. now we can work on fixing everything else

dkc1657 · 07-07-2009, 12:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvilusone

Working on a friends 85 Runner and we're having an issue with the timing. For the engine to run it's best the timing mark on the crank is over at the 9 o'clock position on the pulley. It should be up near the 12 o'clock position. It runs good the way it is but it feels like it lacks some power. A very very slight miss at idle but good through the rest of the RPM's. If we try to set the timing according to the FSM it hardly runs at all. The rotor button lines up with the no. 1 terminal on the cap the way it is now. We're thinking the dist is a tooth off. The PO replaced the timing set. Could the tensioner be shot or is the dist a tooth off? IDK if the tensioner or guides were replaced by the PO and we have no way of getting in contact with him.

I've read what everyone else said about this... but from the info that you provided, I still think it's a timing chain issue.

I've seen something really similar many many times before ... I've done it, and I've seen others do it ... especially apprentices back in the 90's when we still had manual adjustable ignition timing on newer cars and trucks.

You put the timing belt / chain on, button everything up and then either the truck starts but doesn't stay running unless you feather the throttle, or it runs like total crap and you figure it's a timing issue and just crank the timing CCW waaay over the specs.

The guy figures that if the timing belt / chain is off a tooth, well there's a lot of teeth, how much of a difference can one tooth make on valve timing? Answer is --- a LOT.

Especially on engines that have dists that can be turned 360 degrees, I've watched techs feather the throttle on one hand and crank the distributor with the other hand +60 and -60 degrees to try and compensate for a improperly timed belt / chain. And even worse, for those dists that cannot rotate too much, I've watched techs pull out the dist and reposition it, and lazy techs actually unplug the plug wires from the dist cap and rotate THEM because tey're too lazy to pull out the dist itself and rotate the gear.

Most of these screwups are of course made by apprentices.

In which case all apprentices must pay their dues, so you have to let them suffer a bit before letting them know how to fix it. LOL

The thing is that after you install the timing chain, make sure to crank the engine over several times and reline the timing marks on the cam and crank sprockets. In fact, what I like to do is to actually start the engine right after the timing chain / belt goes in and let it run for a bit. Then stop the engine and recheck the timing mark alignment.

Another thing, don't ever trust the distributor rotor location as an indication of TDC. I hope to hell this is not breaking news to anyone here.

marvilusone · 07-07-2009, 06:01 AM

After the inital test drive it is alot better now. We have checked the timing chain a million times over and it's good. The timing and all ignition related components have all checked out good. There's still a slight stumble at idle but we're being told that could be due to the cat being removed and the Flowmaster exhaust. We're going to get some miles on it and see how everything does.

papa_jon · 07-08-2009, 06:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by marvilusone

After the inital test drive it is alot better now. We have checked the timing chain a million times over and it's good. The timing and all ignition related components have all checked out good. There's still a slight stumble at idle but we're being told that could be due to the cat being removed and the Flowmaster exhaust. We're going to get some miles on it and see how everything does.

The issuse we are haveing is it does idle's rough and and lack of power.
we have did all normal tune up plugs,wires,cap,button,fuel filter,and fuel pump it went bad when we first got it.

Etype R · 07-08-2009, 01:39 PM

Double check all the vac lines, if any of them are switched around wrong it will cause running problems. Also make sure there are no loose vac lines. After doing a HG job on my 85 I had running and idle problems due to van lines being hooked up wrong, loose vac lines, and the dist was off 1 tooth. I also had to clean the IAC and adjust the TPS.

Pull the distributor, and rotate it in the direction you need to get it to run correctly, then slide it back in and try again.

07-05-2009, 12:16 PM	#1 (permalink)
marvilusone Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Member # 103040 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 137	22RE timing issue Working on a friends 85 Runner and we're having an issue with the timing. For the engine to run it's best the timing mark on the crank is over at the 9 o'clock position on the pulley. It should be up near the 12 o'clock position. It runs good the way it is but it feels like it lacks some power. A very very slight miss at idle but good through the rest of the RPM's. If we try to set the timing according to the FSM it hardly runs at all. The rotor button lines up with the no. 1 terminal on the cap the way it is now. We're thinking the dist is a tooth off. The PO replaced the timing set. Could the tensioner be shot or is the dist a tooth off? IDK if the tensioner or guides were replaced by the PO and we have no way of getting in contact with him. __________________ [QUOTE=smewhtguy;13760187]I'd hit that like a freight train with no brakes![/QUOTE]

07-05-2009, 03:40 PM	#5 (permalink)
marvilusone Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Member # 103040 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 137	The distributor is in correct and the timing chain cheks out good. We found out that the timing T connector wasn't working because of the idle being too high and the TPS wasn't sensing that the throttle was closed and allowing the ECU to go into service mode. The timing is now spot on but there is still a minor miss at idle. We also did find some leaks at the intake ducting which would be throwing off the readings from the MAF and those are fixed. We're out of time for today so a test drive will have to wait until tomorrow. __________________ [QUOTE=smewhtguy;13760187]I'd hit that like a freight train with no brakes![/QUOTE]

07-07-2009, 06:01 AM	#10 (permalink)
marvilusone Registered User Join Date: Nov 2007 Member # 103040 Location: Charleston, SC Posts: 137	After the inital test drive it is alot better now. We have checked the timing chain a million times over and it's good. The timing and all ignition related components have all checked out good. There's still a slight stumble at idle but we're being told that could be due to the cat being removed and the Flowmaster exhaust. We're going to get some miles on it and see how everything does. __________________ [QUOTE=smewhtguy;13760187]I'd hit that like a freight train with no brakes![/QUOTE]

Thread Tools
Show Printable Version Email this Page
Display Modes
Linear Mode Switch to Hybrid Mode Switch to Threaded Mode

07-05-2009, 12:55 PM	#2 (permalink)
brownbagg Registered User Join Date: Feb 2000 Member # 102 Location: grand bay al usa Posts: 1,002	put the bottom pulley on zero. take vave cover off and look at the chain, see it the dot is 12 oclock

07-05-2009, 12:59 PM	#3 (permalink)
operose Registered User Join Date: Mar 2006 Member # 69243 Location: who cares Posts: 987	you said you think the distributor is off a tooth -- did you move it a tooth in each direction and see what happens?

07-05-2009, 01:23 PM	#4 (permalink)
attitude of gratitud Registered User Join Date: May 2007 Member # 92502 Posts: 19	pull the v/c and check your marks. if they're fine set the crank pulley at 5 degrees. pull the cap off and make sure it's aimed at #1. setting the crank at 5 degrees just always works easier on 22r's for putting the distributor in.

07-05-2009, 04:28 PM	#6 (permalink)
NOODLES Registered User Join Date: Feb 2001 Member # 3132 Location: I love jews Posts: 4,889	maybe a spun balancer. it happens. pretty common.

07-05-2009, 11:32 PM	#7 (permalink)
uda Registered User Join Date: Aug 2004 Member # 34713 Posts: 736	Its your TPS.........Its bad thats why it runs better at a different degree setting......I'm surprise no one has answered you on this... I got money on my answer..Who else?

07-06-2009, 07:21 PM	#8 (permalink)
papa_jon Registered User Join Date: Dec 2008 Member # 125109 Location: kannapolis nc Posts: 4	It was just idleing to high.. now we can work on fixing everything else

07-08-2009, 01:39 PM	#12 (permalink)
Etype R Registered User Join Date: Sep 2005 Member # 53525 Location: Lino Lakes, MN Posts: 231	Double check all the vac lines, if any of them are switched around wrong it will cause running problems. Also make sure there are no loose vac lines. After doing a HG job on my 85 I had running and idle problems due to van lines being hooked up wrong, loose vac lines, and the dist was off 1 tooth. I also had to clean the IAC and adjust the TPS. Pull the distributor, and rotate it in the direction you need to get it to run correctly, then slide it back in and try again.