Valve cover to cam sprocket/timing chain clearance issue, wtf?! - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
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Old 03-28-2011, 07:15 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Valve cover to cam sprocket/timing chain clearance issue, wtf?!

Ok so a first off, I searched a ton already and came up with nothing. Next a lil background to the problem, I'm currently swapping my block (22re), due to a gouged up 4th cylinder with the block from my parts truck. So I put all my accessories, and head and timing cover and timing set, pretty much everything from my old engine onto this block.

Now 2 nights ago I'm buttoning it up and putting the valve cover on and notice that its not sitting down completely in the front of the engine. So I take it off and see its rubbing on the timing chain and cam sprocket. What the Hell? Im pretty sure it wasn't doing that b4. So I tried swapping the valve cover with a spare, same problem. The oem rubber gasket sits about 1/16 away from contacting the head. Nice and squashed though at the back of the valve cover.

Thinking that its perhaps my heavy duty aftermarket single row timing set I measured the parts engine chain around its sprocket with a vernier, same as mine, 115mm.

Anybody out there come across this or got any ideas? I'm really scratching my head here, and just wanna get back out on the rocks, thanks in advance guys!
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:03 PM   #2 (permalink)
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its hard enough to get the cam sproket up onto the shaft alone, i donno how you can have it up so high that the valve cover is hitting it. can we get a pic?
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:14 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Sounds like you swapped everything from an 85 up to an 84 down engine,
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:37 PM   #4 (permalink)
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its hard enough to get the cam sproket up onto the shaft alone, i donno how you can have it up so high that the valve cover is hitting it. can we get a pic?
I know man its driving me nuts, I don't know how this is even possible. What can I even take a pic of for you though?
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:40 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Sounds like you swapped everything from an 85 up to an 84 down engine,
I highly doubt it man, was a 91 2wd ext cab that I sasd, and now using a 91 4wd block, and they looked like the original engines for the truck.
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:47 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Double check your cam sprocket isn't on backwards. I can't remember for sure if they're symmetrical.
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Old 03-28-2011, 09:55 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Double check your cam sprocket isn't on backwards. I can't remember for sure if they're symmetrical.
Ok Im pretty sure I remember that it only had the dimple for timing on one side, but ill double check, keep em coming guys and thanks for all the input so far.
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Old 03-29-2011, 08:00 AM   #8 (permalink)
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It is a single row chain, not double? Double wont fit in later valve covers without some work. Otherwise, maybe the cam gear is not completely on the cam, and is too far forward?

Just to be sure, both these engines were running fuel injection, and the intakes were bolted on with bolts in every hole, intake to head?
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:06 AM   #9 (permalink)
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I highly doubt it man, was a 91 2wd ext cab that I sasd, and now using a 91 4wd block, and they looked like the original engines for the truck.
was just a thought, I just got a 2wd 91 with an 84 engine in it
But I cant see on any of our engines how the valve cover could hit, is the baffle bent?
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:10 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Like Brian said, the double row timing chain setup will not fit with a late style valve cover. Maybe your wider single row timing set is causing the same problem. I know that when I went to a double row timing chain I had to get an early style valve cover. In case you don't know the first pic is the early style and the second pic is the late style. It seems kind of backwards but the one with the sloped front actually has more room inside for timing chain clearance.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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Sounds like you swapped everything from an 85 up to an 84 down engine,
This would make no difference as far as his problem is concerned. Deck height would not change the cam gear to valve cover clearence as its set by the center line of the cam, and the cam gears are pretty much all the same diameter.

It has to be something stupid that is being overlooked. I know it sounds stupid but is the head torqued? Rocker assy completely seated? No tools or vacuum lines in the way? Are you positive that its actually the cam gear making contact? Can you post pics?
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Old 03-29-2011, 11:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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This would make no difference as far as his problem is concerned. Deck height would not change the cam gear to valve cover clearence as its set by the center line of the cam, and the cam gears are pretty much all the same diameter.

It has to be something stupid that is being overlooked. I know it sounds stupid but is the head torqued? Rocker assy completely seated? No tools or vacuum lines in the way? Are you positive that its actually the cam gear making contact? Can you post pics?
I was thinking of the two row chain from an early which does not clear a late valve cover.
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Old 03-29-2011, 12:50 PM   #13 (permalink)
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It is a single row chain, not double? Double wont fit in later valve covers without some work. Otherwise, maybe the cam gear is not completely on the cam, and is too far forward?

Just to be sure, both these engines were running fuel injection, and the intakes were bolted on with bolts in every hole, intake to head?


yep its definitely a single, i made sure to specify that, as i came across that in my searches. pretty sure its sitting far enough forward, ill double check, but i did torque the bolt and dizzy gear on there, and looked forward enough.

both engines were running, and were efi. ummm my intake isnt mounted though yet. the engine is on a stand and the intake is still pushed to the side in the truck, should this matter at all though?
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:02 PM   #14 (permalink)
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was just a thought, I just got a 2wd 91 with an 84 engine in it
But I cant see on any of our engines how the valve cover could hit, is the baffle bent?
nope doesnt look bent, if anything bent in a little from the contact. also tried the parts engine valve cover, it also was hitting on the baffle.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:05 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Like Brian said, the double row timing chain setup will not fit with a late style valve cover. Maybe your wider single row timing set is causing the same problem. I know that when I went to a double row timing chain I had to get an early style valve cover. In case you don't know the first pic is the early style and the second pic is the late style. It seems kind of backwards but the one with the sloped front actually has more room inside for timing chain clearance.

ya no its the square style valve cover, the newer style. i dont think my heavy duty set has a wider chain or sprocket, i think they just call it hd because of the steel backed guides.
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Old 03-29-2011, 01:11 PM   #16 (permalink)
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This would make no difference as far as his problem is concerned. Deck height would not change the cam gear to valve cover clearence as its set by the center line of the cam, and the cam gears are pretty much all the same diameter.

It has to be something stupid that is being overlooked. I know it sounds stupid but is the head torqued? Rocker assy completely seated? No tools or vacuum lines in the way? Are you positive that its actually the cam gear making contact? Can you post pics?

head is all torqued down, with arp head studs, all are tight i tripple cheched. im pretty sure rocker assembly is all seated, but ill double check tonight. nope no tools, or vac lines in the way. its definitely the cam gear, there are clear marks from the chain contact on the baffle in the cover.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:10 PM   #17 (permalink)
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head is all torqued down, with arp head studs, all are tight i tripple cheched. im pretty sure rocker assembly is all seated, but ill double check tonight. nope no tools, or vac lines in the way. its definitely the cam gear, there are clear marks from the chain contact on the baffle in the cover.
If there are any threads from the stud protruding past the nut, then the stud is hitting a rib on under side of the valve cover. This usually happens with the front two studs and the two rear studs. You can either remove the suds and shorten the end that goes into the block or grid the ribs off the inside of the valve cover. Not musch grinding required either way.
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Old 03-29-2011, 07:47 PM   #18 (permalink)
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If there are any threads from the stud protruding past the nut, then the stud is hitting a rib on under side of the valve cover. This usually happens with the front two studs and the two rear studs. You can either remove the suds and shorten the end that goes into the block or grid the ribs off the inside of the valve cover. Not musch grinding required either way.

I wish that I had checked this thread before I got home, I just finished figuring this out for myself. Ya the front 2 studs are hitting that rib or webbing I was gonna call it. I sharpied the area where the chain marks were, and there was no shiny new marks coming coming thru the marker paint, so I started looking elsewhere and that is it. I'll take the carbide bit to those ribs now.

I immediately dismissed it being the arp studs cause I figured if it was hitting any it would be hitting all. I now assume the marks on the valve cover were from the a sloppy chain when the guides broke a while ago.

I also didn't relate it to the studs, cause I guess I didn't notice the problem when I installed them. (which wasn't long ago, I put em in when I replaced the headgasket, thinking that was my coolant and exhaust mixing problem, but it was the block)

Well thanks to all for your help, I can't believe I didn't hear about this when I put the studs in originally, I mean its a pretty common mod I think. Arp should really have a note In the box, maybe this should go in the faq too?
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Old 03-29-2011, 09:00 PM   #19 (permalink)
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wow, I have never had that problem, I guess we will stick with our head studs.
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Old 03-29-2011, 10:20 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I was thinking of the two row chain from an early which does not clear a late valve cover.
Glad the OP got it figured out!

Hmmm Dave, my Late model with the dual row conversion, square VC, fits fine !!! ...



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Old 03-30-2011, 07:40 AM   #21 (permalink)
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I would guess the valve cover is modified?
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Old 03-31-2011, 09:34 AM   #22 (permalink)
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Could be, In fact, I bet your right, heck, I know your right. I'll ask Tim next time I talk to him what he did.
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:24 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Could be, In fact, I bet your right, heck, I know your right. I'll ask Tim next time I talk to him what he did.
I'm dealing with this issue right now on an 84 engine with double row chain. Sure would love to know what others have done to the baffle inside that square cover!
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Old 09-30-2011, 01:44 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Like Brian said, the double row timing chain setup will not fit with a late style valve cover. Maybe your wider single row timing set is causing the same problem. I know that when I went to a double row timing chain I had to get an early style valve cover. In case you don't know the first pic is the early style and the second pic is the late style. It seems kind of backwards but the one with the sloped front actually has more room inside for timing chain clearance.
IIRC the front baffle was very easy to remove and isnt a issue. I removed mine when I did a double row set on my old motor. I checked it before and it did hit and wouldnt sit flat.
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Old 09-30-2011, 06:46 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Well, I just removed the oil filler part of the baffle... grinded the spot welds off. If I were to do this again, I would use another method because it made a mess inside the cover. Good thing I have a solvent tank!
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