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Old 10-27-2010, 08:00 AM   #26 (permalink)
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I'd like to see your detailed mission/plan/structure as soon as it is publicly available to see of or how TOHVA can work with SOC going forward.
We will make that public as soon as we can.
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Old 10-27-2010, 08:53 AM   #27 (permalink)
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The legalities are not fully taken care of yet, thats why our website and forum are not visible. THis post was to answer some of the questions we were receiving and to try to get the trailkeeper system that we want to use jump started. When everything is finalized, it will be made public for everyone to see.
Then you have gotten off to a very bad start here on pirate.

Sending our members unsolicited PM's asking for support is considered spam and I have received complaints.

Until you are a legit non profit that we can examine your documents you will be held to the same standard of any other for profit business and that means you will need to buy a vendor star to continue using pirate4x4 for your businesses benefit.
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Old 10-27-2010, 09:08 AM   #28 (permalink)
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I started to type this out earlier and then deleted it.

SOC could start out as the information database you refered to earlier and help with volunteer efforts for the parks. I have been involved with groups very simular to what I think you are trying to do. 501c 3 is a pain in the ass to get started and really I just dont see why you need the cash yet...I said yet.


Unless I have missed something you dont need money to bring information to the people. It doesnt cost a dime to send out an email or yahoo group message saying a work party is needed at whatever park.


I still am having a hard time understanding why private parks need to be given donations. DRM was correct when he said the parks are a business and need to be ran as such. The best thing you could do for the park is follow their business model....show up and wheel. Maybe buy a tshirt or two and whatever else they have for sale.
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Old 10-27-2010, 10:47 AM   #29 (permalink)
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Then you have gotten off to a very bad start here on pirate.

Sending our members unsolicited PM's asking for support is considered spam and I have received complaints.

Until you are a legit non profit that we can examine your documents you will be held to the same standard of any other for profit business and that means you will need to buy a vendor star to continue using pirate4x4 for your businesses benefit.
I have never sent anyone a PM asking for support, I have recieved PMs wanting to support us and I will comment to them saying thanks for your support. Thats all

I understand what your are saying and I agree with you, we have just been ask so many questions from people, we wanted to put something out there to wet thier appetite, to try and show them we wern't just running our mouth, that we intend on devoting the time and energy into this effort.

We will continue to rally support, when we have the legal documents, otherwise we will let it go for now. Thanks
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:25 AM   #30 (permalink)
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When you get your 501 setup let us know and we will extend the same courtesy as all other land use ors and donate a yellow star.
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:26 AM   #31 (permalink)
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When you get your 501 setup let us know and we will extend the same courtesy as all other land use ors and donate a yellow star.
Thank you sir!
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Old 10-27-2010, 11:31 AM   #32 (permalink)
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very cool!
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Old 11-03-2010, 11:28 AM   #33 (permalink)
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Just checking in. Hope things are going well...
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Old 11-03-2010, 12:47 PM   #34 (permalink)
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things are going well. we're currently getting the 501 paperwork together. Once we do we'll be releasing more info. We do not want to wear out our welcome on pirate so we're going to have to wait till we get the OK before we can give any more details.
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Old 11-09-2010, 07:43 AM   #35 (permalink)
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looking forward to more info after the red tape
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Old 11-09-2010, 12:46 PM   #36 (permalink)
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looking forward to more info after the red tape
yeah it's going to be a little while. I spoke with the IRS and they said once a application has been submitted then it takes a minimum of 90 days before approval. With the end of the year around the corner and tax season upon us we'll see how they stick to that timeline. If we can get the application in before Christmas I think we'll be in good shape.
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Old 11-09-2010, 08:51 PM   #37 (permalink)
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Exclamation This could work !!!!

As far as money is concerned, worry with that later. We see how donations or financial matters helped with the tellico issues, but personaly feel that trail information would be helpful to all and maybe even bring the naysayers together and act as a whole rather than acting as individuals. We've also seen the end product of that, if we're starting out anew then do it right! With that being said keep us abreast of your plans and strategies in a + way not putting each of us at each others throats leave politics to sorry ass politicians and ohv parks to us individuals and clubs. As sorry a shape as this country is in we need to try some new things and if they don't work set down like adults i think most of us are,and talk to each other not at each other. Bottom line we all know that this is becoming a serious issue all over the usa and fussing and arguing will lead to the dismay of a sport we all love, you never know what to expect but at least no one can say we didn't give it a shot. Flame me if you may, but that is exactly what i'm writing this message about. Let's see what comes of this newly formed organization and hope that it brings us together as an offroad club united there's power in numbers so lets all stick together, as of now pirate is the best source handsdown of information we have so support it,without pirate these comunications would not be possible, that's my 2 cents worth just felt like venting after reading the tellico post tonight, i kind a feel like one of those indians that had all they possesed taken away by our government we have no choice as i see it but to give anything new a shot, a chance,thanks for reading how i feel about a special recreation to all who visit this great site!!!!!!!!!!
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Old 11-10-2010, 05:50 PM   #38 (permalink)
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There is no "US and Them" in this fight, as Ive seen posted before. The new organization will work with any and all groups fighting for our OHV areas. I think we can make a difference and we are looking forward to making this official and productive.
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Old 11-10-2010, 06:03 PM   #39 (permalink)
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In for the updates. I hope this works out.
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Old 11-17-2010, 07:09 PM   #40 (permalink)
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There is no "US and Them" in this fight, as Ive seen posted before.
So is that why you went back and deleted the thread YOU started titled:

"Poll: The "OFFICIAL" abolish the SFWDA thread!"


I'm all for giving this mystical new organization (that you guys still haven't shared ANY details about, while saying your organization is based on open COMMUNICATION) a chance, but don't sit here and act like you're all for hugs and cooperation when you have spent the last year SPECIFICALLY trying to create an "Us and Them" situation.
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Old 11-17-2010, 08:17 PM   #41 (permalink)
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"Us and Them situation".
SFWDA did that all by themselves, just talk to the dunebuggy guys the sfwda helped throw out of Tellico.
Oh, they will say; That was a past leadership, that did that.
Southern four wheel drive, means just that. Too hell with those atvs, dirtbikes and dunebuggies. Us and Them!
Southern is committed only to four wheel drives, unlike the blue ribbon coalition.
Yes, I'm bitter I was one of those buggy guys.
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Old 11-18-2010, 05:30 AM   #42 (permalink)
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So is that why you went back and deleted the thread YOU started titled:

"Poll: The "OFFICIAL" abolish the SFWDA thread!"


I'm all for giving this mystical new organization (that you guys still haven't shared ANY details about, while saying your organization is based on open COMMUNICATION) a chance, but don't sit here and act like you're all for hugs and cooperation when you have spent the last year SPECIFICALLY trying to create an "Us and Them" situation.
the reason we can't say anything is because we were told by camo that we cannot drum up business when we have no proof of a 501c(4) designation. Just trying to play by the rules and keep things fair to the yellow star members. We've already stated it's going to take a little time to clear that IRS hurdle. 90 days just to have the application looked at. That doesn't include the time it takes to raise almost $600 to file.

it's not an Us vs Them scenario. it's more along the lines of you do what you want and we'll do what we want. if ever you see that we're not so bad and we're actually dedicated to helping and you want to join in we'll be happy to work something out. I think this is going farther than Southern is willing to at this point.
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Old 11-18-2010, 06:53 AM   #43 (permalink)
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the reason we can't say anything is because we were told by camo that we cannot drum up business when we have no proof of a 501c(4) designation. Just trying to play by the rules and keep things fair to the yellow star members. We've already stated it's going to take a little time to clear that IRS hurdle. 90 days just to have the application looked at. That doesn't include the time it takes to raise almost $600 to file.
So because you can't pimp it here, you can't create a website, post a link, share some info elsewhere? I don't get that. Here's my email -send me a link to the website, or send me actual info about the organization, it's structure, it's mission, etc: drm@4x4spot.com

If there is a new organization, I'd be more than happy to get a news release up on TOHVA's site to get the word out.

Again, you guys claimed this was going to be an "out-in-the-open" organization, but you simply are not following through with that claim.

Quote:
it's not an Us vs Them scenario.
With all due respect - don't blow smoke up my ass.

ROCKRAWL started a thread calling for SFWDA to be "abolished", and can't even restrain himself from commenting on SFWDA's membership drive threads towards the negative.

You got burned by SFWDA letting you go (in an manner I don't agree with, BTW), but then you handled yourself pretty unprofessionally IMHO in the fallout of that, and all of a sudden switched teams and are bitter about it.

So far - the two vocal proponents of this new organization are quite clearly creating an "us vs. them" atmosphere, and that is how the general public sees it.



You want this new organization to succeed? You better work REAL hard to reign in the leashes on your leading voices and their blatant negative tone. "Not SFWDA" might get you a few members to get started, but it is a pretty lame battle cry to actually be a POSITIVE influence on a regional level. I can tell you right now - nobody that actually matters is going to take you serious as long as your leading voice - ROCKRAWL - can't control himself.

I guess you can ignore my suggestions, but IMHO you'd be a fool to do so and pretty much guarantee your organization WILL fail.
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:34 AM   #44 (permalink)
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So because you can't pimp it here, you can't create a website, post a link, share some info elsewhere? I don't get that. Here's my email -send me a link to the website, or send me actual info about the organization, it's structure, it's mission, etc: drm@4x4spot.com

If there is a new organization, I'd be more than happy to get a news release up on TOHVA's site to get the word out.

Again, you guys claimed this was going to be an "out-in-the-open" organization, but you simply are not following through with that claim.



With all due respect - don't blow smoke up my ass.

ROCKRAWL started a thread calling for SFWDA to be "abolished", and can't even restrain himself from commenting on SFWDA's membership drive threads towards the negative.

You got burned by SFWDA letting you go (in an manner I don't agree with, BTW), but then you handled yourself pretty unprofessionally IMHO in the fallout of that, and all of a sudden switched teams and are bitter about it.

So far - the two vocal proponents of this new organization are quite clearly creating an "us vs. them" atmosphere, and that is how the general public sees it.



You want this new organization to succeed? You better work REAL hard to reign in the leashes on your leading voices and their blatant negative tone. "Not SFWDA" might get you a few members to get started, but it is a pretty lame battle cry to actually be a POSITIVE influence on a regional level. I can tell you right now - nobody that actually matters is going to take you serious as long as your leading voice - ROCKRAWL - can't control himself.

I guess you can ignore my suggestions, but IMHO you'd be a fool to do so and pretty much guarantee your organization WILL fail.
We currently are working on the website. Besides a few pics to make it a little friendlier on the eyes it's complete. I had it finished 2 weeks ago. I guess it's my fault for not releasing it sooner. I don't really feel like going into it but I've spent a lot of my free time at the hospital lately. Fortunately, it looks like I won't have to be doing that much more.

Gary and I are working together to get this going. Just like Southern we do not have paid staff and it's on our time. Currently it's going to take roughly $600 to make it happen. We are not asking for donations or support. Just to make it clear. It's going to take a little time to raise that money. Meanwhile we're building the site and the information we need to spread out. I appreciate the offer and we will take you up on it. However, I would rather roll out a complete package rather than a few pieces at a time. I guess it wouldn't hurt to at least put out the mission statement and general plans. I'll see what I can get to you.

Addressing the 2 vocal proponents. I'm assuming you mean me as one of those. I am not against Southern. Never have been. I am against the current leadership and their mishandling of their position. Did I act unprofessionally? yeah, I guess I did but my emotions were running high and I felt people needed to know. I don't regret what I did because hopefully I opened a few eyes to what was happening within the organization. I want an organization in the southeast to help promote, preserve and expand what we already have. I just don't think Southern is the vehicle to get to that point because of the driver(s).
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Old 11-18-2010, 07:48 AM   #45 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply - good info, and a good update.


But like I said - Gary has NO place to sit here and claim "there is no us vs. them". It's bullshit. You know it, I know it, he knows it. He has been adament about tearing down SFWDA repeatedly for years. That is NOT the way to get your new organization off the ground. If he was smart - he'd just shut up about Southern completely and focus on saying positive things about SOC and pray that everybody forgets his ranting and raving about Southern.

But to act like he didn't foster an "us vs. them" atmosphere? That's just insulting to the intelligence of anyone paying attention.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:04 AM   #46 (permalink)
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Thanks for the reply - good info, and a good update.


But like I said - Gary has NO place to sit here and claim "there is no us vs. them". It's bullshit. You know it, I know it, he knows it. He has been adament about tearing down SFWDA repeatedly for years. That is NOT the way to get your new organization off the ground. If he was smart - he'd just shut up about Southern completely and focus on saying positive things about SOC and pray that everybody forgets his ranting and raving about Southern.

But to act like he didn't foster an "us vs. them" atmosphere? That's just insulting to the intelligence of anyone paying attention.
Why should we share info with you about this org? You'll get it when eeryone else gets it, you'll get no special treatment.

I have let bashing Southern go and I am focusing on the new org. Your the one still stirring up shit

This is the bottom line: if you want to support an org with people who have aa true passion for the sport comprised of people who actually "wheel" and who care about our riding areas and trying to save them, get on board, if not, rebuild the SFWDA.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:10 AM   #47 (permalink)
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There is no "US and Them" in this fight,
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I have let bashing Southern go and I am focusing on the new org.
So first you deny it, then when you get called on it you say"I'm not doing that any more"

Buddy, the public image problem here is YOURS. I'd suggest you learn to take ownership of it instead of passing the buck. What people think of ME won't hurt your organization, but this kind of dishonestly by YOU will sure hurt it.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:31 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Everyone knows how I feel about southern that's no secret and when I say there is no us Vs them, I'm referring to any organization that is trying to make a difference we would definetly support them and try to work with them, please go crawl back under your rock and let us make a difference.

We are passionate about our sport that's why we are doing what were doing.
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Old 11-18-2010, 09:40 AM   #49 (permalink)
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Everyone knows how I feel about southern that's no secret and when I say there is no us Vs them, I'm referring to any organization that is trying to make a difference we would definetly support them and try to work with them, please go crawl back under your rock and let us make a difference.

We are passionate about our sport that's why we are doing what were doing.

If you think posts like this help your cause, you're doomed


Nick - maybe you can talk some sense into him, before you waste time on an organization that will be hamstrung by Gary running his mouth.


Regardless - my offer still stands. As soon as you guys have all your ducks in a row let me know or prepare a press release so we can get the word out and get you working with other organizations who share your goals.
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Old 11-20-2010, 04:57 AM   #50 (permalink)
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If this is going to be a "let's try something different" approach, why not make it a "for profit" venture. It's probably a lot easier to get going than the hoops of a non-profit.
One area you may be able to "profit" would be to act as a consultancy to aid new park owners in getting going. As someone else mentioned, a lot of park owners really don't want to be all that involved. They're basically trying to do something with the land they have.

A place up in Maine went down the tubes cause the owner received bad advice. Most parks up north are setup as clubs- similar to hunt clubs. They aren't subjected to the same scrutiny that a normal business is. This owner was advised to setup as a normal business and got mired down in all the environmental bs the town/state made him go through.

Maybe you can provide trail layout/cutting services so that you can at least re-reimburse people for food/gas.

Maybe provide "professional" event support/training.
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