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Old 04-03-2012, 02:27 PM   #126 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Jeff Knoll View Post
This might ruffle some feathers but since this thread is a train wreck why not?

In defense of Cal 4 wheel, they have committed about $6000.00 to savethehammers.org. So far CORVA has chipped in $500 for stickers they sold which where produced by CMRC. Each of the members sold the same amount including Cal 4 wheel. (so IMHO that's a wash)

If a number of you are going to promote a boycott of an event that will raise much needed funds to save Johnson Valley and wave a CORVA banner over another association as being a better choice for our land use fights across the state, than I challenge you to share with us why that is a better choice outside the we don't like this group of people argument. Boycotting is one thing, promoting the boycott it is another.

That's not a bash on CORVA its a bash on the irony of this whole situation.

Is it fair to say Cal 4 wheel does not do enough for the south when they have committed to save the hammers?

Are the people that are boycotting HDR implying that they will be doing more for Johnson Valley than Cal 4 wheel? I certainly hope so, because we are only half way to meeting our goals with the commitments we have, and so far, a few associations have not stepped up to help make that happen.

I will not be attending HDR. Not because its a Cal 4 wheel event, but because it is a hot as the sun the last weekend in May in the desert. You want to make that event better? Change the date! That's the start of Boat season. If you are going to have an event in the summer months in the desert, there damn sure better be water involved.
The money that CA4WDC has in the legal fund for Johnson Valley is there because of what Jeff Knoll, Dave Cole, Harry Baker, Helen Baker, Steve Gardiner, Camo Linker, Jessi Combs, Shannon Campbell, Rick Russell and some others did at KOH 2011. None of the money in that fund was put in there by the Cal4 board. In fact, several board members and one of the contractors was adamant that Cal4 should never be associated with a racing event. Jeff you know this to be true because you got emails from John Stewart telling you this.

In spite of the lack of support from the Cal4 board, dozens of volunteers were recruited to work at the gate and around Hammertown for the 2011 race. While some of these volunteers were Cal4 members, many were not. But all were supporters of the race and Hammerking, and it was because of their work and visibility at the race that a total of $11990.00 was accrued and was put in a special legal fund that Steve and Harry asked Cal4 to create for the single and sole purpose of “Saving Johnson Valley.”

So Jeff, before you praise Cal4 and damn another organization for “only” donating $500.00, isn't that all that the board of Cal 4 is doing by selling the stickers, considering that all the other money in Cal4's JV fund came through yours and Dave's efforts, so aren't you and Dave actually making Cal4's donation? The next question is, will Cal4 really give you the money in the JV fund?

Additionally, the HDR money doesn't go into any land use or legal fund it goes into the general fund and is used to pay for the operation of the organization. So even though a portion could be considered as paying for the contractors, it could just as easily be used to buy toilet paper.

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Old 04-03-2012, 05:41 PM   #127 (permalink)
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Unfortunate that we waist so much energy arguing and not putting that effort into our efforts to save Johnson Valley and other areas that are threatened. I would hope that everyone that has spent time writing here in this tread have also taken as much time to write or visit there congress person. I was able to talk to mine for over 45 min one day. The personal contact with your congressman or there staff is very important. O yea I did help raise some (little amount) of the money in the Johnson Valley line item in the Cal 4 budget.

O yea come to HDR and have some fun...
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Old 04-03-2012, 06:57 PM   #128 (permalink)
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Steve you didn't help with KOH 2011. You weren't even there.

Oh Yeah, have fun at hdr....
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Old 04-03-2012, 07:22 PM   #129 (permalink)
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Steve you didn't help with KOH 2011. You weren't even there.

Oh Yeah, have fun at hdr....
Thanks for pointing that out Helen, and you know why I was not there.
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Old 04-04-2012, 08:15 PM   #130 (permalink)
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Last night the CA4WDC BOD voted to release it's entire Johnson Vallley legal fund to CMRC to help fund there lobbying efforts in Washington DC. We have already given $1400.00 and we will be turning over an additional $9700.00 for a grand total of $11,100.00. This money was donated at the 2011 KOH and many CA4WDC events last year. At this years KOH, CA4WDC sold $500.00 worth of the Save Johnson Valley stickers at our 2012 Sweepstakes Vehicle booth. That money has already been turned over to CMRC. So for those who say CA4WDC dosn't care about the South District this is another example of how much we care about all our public lands. Sometimes the political BS within CA4WDC can be painful but CA4WDC will always be there to keep our
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Old 04-05-2012, 09:22 AM   #131 (permalink)
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Thats owesome, but that wont make the occupy CA4WDC haters any happier. They have made up there minds to leave, I just ask them one thing why is there leader (Harry) not following them?????

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Old 04-05-2012, 12:58 PM   #132 (permalink)
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He will not voluntarly leave, they like being the center of attention.
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Old 04-06-2012, 05:20 AM   #133 (permalink)
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Thats owesome, but that wont make the occupy CA4WDC haters any happier. They have made up there minds to leave, I just ask them one thing why is there leader (Harry) no following them?????
then maybe some of the local clubs in SoCal should ask Harry that question?

If those people want to run off to Corva, let them.

What is the hidden agenda of the South Districts leadership? Are they trying to bankrupt Cal4, push more members over to Corva?

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Old 04-06-2012, 06:23 AM   #134 (permalink)
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I agree with you, let them leave, they seem to be very unhappy people, personally I think where ever they go it will have the same results. Its really sad that the 4 wheel drive community in Ca. cant come together for a single cause, there always seems to be the one problem of the ME, ME, ME whats in it for ME. This is a prime example of why this country is so screwed up, we cant even get the 4 wheel drive community together how in the hell can we get the nation together.

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Old 04-06-2012, 08:17 AM   #135 (permalink)
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Fix it, don't give up or insult

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I agree with you, let them leave.... Its really sad that the 4 wheel drive community in Ca. cant come together.
Wow, John. I don't see how this helps. I don't think telling the unhappy people to leave will help our cause. I was hoping to encourage discourse about the internal problems in CA4WDC and find a way to fix it. If we just insult each other and tell ourselves to leave if we don't like it, then we are gaining nothing and the organization is really broken. In this case, CA4WDC should really rename itself. However, what I wold like is for the board members (our representatives) to start acting like politicians (sadly). They need to put away their differences and find a common ground to help save our lands. If they can't do this, why are we backing them? Because they can put a few dollars to a legal fund? 10K is nothing compared to what our foes can muster. We need a strong organization that can be there for us.
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Old 04-06-2012, 10:36 AM   #136 (permalink)
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Thats owesome, but that wont make the occupy CA4WDC haters any happier. They have made up there minds to leave, I just ask them one thing why is there leader (Harry) not following them?????
Good question??? He has a hidden agenda of busting the bank for CA4WDC so they cannot hire their NRC'S. When Harry does not like someone, he goes out of his way to make it difficult.
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Old 04-06-2012, 11:44 AM   #137 (permalink)
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Its unfortunate but sometimes you just have tell some people to leave for the good of the entire organization. There are a few who really want to hurt the organization from within by busting the budget or just creating a division between the districts. Sometimes there is no other choice.
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Old 04-06-2012, 02:50 PM   #138 (permalink)
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Wow, John. I don't see how this helps. I don't think telling the unhappy people to leave will help our cause. I was hoping to encourage discourse about the internal problems in CA4WDC and find a way to fix it. If we just insult each other and tell ourselves to leave if we don't like it, then we are gaining nothing and the organization is really broken. In this case, CA4WDC should really rename itself. However, what I wold like is for the board members (our representatives) to start acting like politicians (sadly). They need to put away their differences and find a common ground to help save our lands. If they can't do this, why are we backing them? Because they can put a few dollars to a legal fund? 10K is nothing compared to what our foes can muster. We need a strong organization that can be there for us.
Sent you a PM, you can toss it took me a few to figure out who you where

Bill I'm just tierd of the non stop bickering that has been going on for the past couple of years in clubs, between clubs and now with CA4WDC. You just can't make some people happy, I just want to get together with friends, go camping, wheelin & go to events without the BS. I stepped up and I'm leading a run for HDR just like I did last year, I hope others step up.

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Old 05-24-2012, 08:58 PM   #139 (permalink)
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Wow, I just wasted over an hour reading this whole thread.

The one thing that jumps at me is that it seems that the way business is done by Cal4 may need a review. For example, there is discourse between regions. That may be a reflection of the larger SoCal vs NorCal issue Statewide that was caused by water rights issues, or maybe not.

I will say that I am not able to run for an office on the BOD and try to fix it because I am fully busy with the Rubicon Trail Foundation and have my hands full.

An idea though: Disband the districts, make a full BOD of all current members or limit to a smaller number, make it a STATEWIDE organization and do a full review and edit of the bylaws. Maybe even a full rewrite as the last time I read them they seemed way to cumbersome and did not allow flexibility for action as is needed in todays market.

One other note is with the instant gratification society we have, quarterly meetings with no way to make decisions in between meetings (as explained to me by a former President of Cal4) does not allow enough flexibility to take action as needed in today's politics.

This may not be the right forum for such ideas, but I know that 3 BOD will see this at least because of the involvement here.

Like Jeff said, an idea is an idea and not a person. It should take it's own identity and be judged on the merit of the idea.

That's all I got.

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Old 05-24-2012, 11:39 PM   #140 (permalink)
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I like the idea of recreating Cal4Wheel from the inside. My feelings is that it's a broken (cracked?) organization that needs major work to repair. Tearing down the whole organization would create a major whole in our organizational needs, but it is showing signs of needing more than just quietly shaking hands and making like we are great friends.

I'd like to see more innovative ideas as Scott presented. Something different is certainly needed. Whatever else the problems we have as a 4WD community, the pitiful low count of members in CA4WDC points to an organization that many don't relate to.
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Old 05-25-2012, 10:23 PM   #141 (permalink)
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Cal4 has some issues, but I think with the people on the SD BOD now, there will be some new discussion to bring new ideas forward.

These have been discussed on the South Districts Facebook page.

Lots of good ideas.

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Old 05-30-2012, 03:17 PM   #142 (permalink)
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Dont you guys know how to pick your trash up? If I get one more paper plate with "HDR" sharpied on it in my yard Im gonna be pissed! PICK YOUR SHIT UP!!!
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