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Jumping ship...

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#1 · (Edited)


This junk followed me home a few weeks ago.....

I am staring a new project ( and trying to buy a house! ). It's not going to be a Willys :evil: Sorry guys. Rango will live on. It's pretty much 'done' at this point and I don't anticipate changing anything big. If I do I will keep the thread updated. It has been a faithful steed over the last few years and will continue to be my trail ride while I build this new one.

I don't know where the build thread will go...maybe I will just let this thread roll into that if nobody is watching. I love this little corner of pirate. I have put a lot of time into making it what it is in the last few years. The members active in this section are all a great bunch of people. Many go above and beyond to help other members. Keep up the great work. I will try and stay as active in here as I can during the new build. Cheers.

Edit for Notes/Links I regularly need for this project....

A good reference for Nuts/Bolts. This Metric thing takes some getting use to.
http://forum.ih8mud.com/threads/nuts-and-bolts.76927/
 
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#5 ·
Funny....

Does it help I wanted a Willys pickup cab kinda size thing but I didn't want a fixed windshield and top? The logical thing I came up with was a FJ40 that is going to be reworked into a fj45 pickup kinda sized tub thing. My friend is also building a Willys based truck project and I didn't want to copy him. If I was going to build a FJ45-esk pickup tub, what better chassis to stick it on than an FZJ80 ( or rather Lexus LX450! :grinpimp: ) chassis? It even has the elocker option :smokin: I think the factory 112" wheelbase is going to be just about perfect with 40s...
 
#6 ·
Hate to say it but thought about similar thing. We all love our Willy's but they are small and its tough to have a comfortable long trip in a Flatty no matter how well or what you do. And you know this better than anyone. We've all been at this long enough to know what's realistic.

Just glad you went first...!
 
#7 ·
Yeah. I enjoy my flat fender very much, but I will be the 1st to tell you that it has its limitations. While I will admit those limitations FAR surpass what I ever thought it was possible of.....it is time to move on. I don't like building vehicles that are in a constant state of flux. I generally have a pretty specific vision of what I wanted and built towards that. I want to keep my flat fender a flat fender. Heck....now all the cool kids are buying stockers and 'wheeling those! I can never keep up with all these trends.

This new rig is basically just going to be a 'bigger' version of the 'clown car' concept that was coined with my Rango build. It is going to be as low as practical. It will have as much flat and smooth belly clearance as possible. It will have big dumb tires. I am going to try to keep it as front heavy as I can so that when it is loaded with gear it still performs well and when its empty it climbs like a goat.

What will be different with this is that I will be up-scaling most of the components. This one is getting modern fuel injected V8 power. It will be an automatic since I have the available length. It will be capable of going down the interstate at 80mph. The axles are going to be stronger. The tires are going to be bigger. It is going to have a lot more wheelbase.

I'm not building a full size vehicle however. The wheelbase is only going to be 112" which was very close to the 110" goal I had for a large tire build. I am going to try and keep the body 'small' and out of the way. The FJ40 tub is going to have the doors pinched to bring the tub width down to about 55.5" wide. This is actually NARROWER than the rear of a flat fender tub which is 57" wide. I am not building the FJ45-esk tub to be stock length, I am going to add a little bit of stretch to it for a touch more legroom ( along with a slightly higher seating position than my flat fender ). My bum knee has been giving me fits lately and I need to have a bit more legroom.....and likely cruise control for big trips.

The front clip is going to get 'highlined' to help fit the 40" tires. My goal is to keep the 80-series suspension stock and clear those tires. I suspect I will pick up an inch or two of lift from the reduction in body weight from stock. I am going to french little front fenders into the hood and rework the grill shell to match. In the back I am going to build a small 'stepside' bed that is reminiscent to the original Willys pickup beds. It will have just enough room to lay a full size spare tire down in the bed.

Stay tuned. We are right in the middle of buying a house so this will probably move slower than I want.
 
#8 ·
Oh nooooo! I just got here and haven't really even started my build. I always look for the Mieser comments and suggestions, even if you are stuck on that clown car thing. :D Nah, really I like it.

It will cool to see another vehicle, even if it isn't a Willys, get Mieserized.



Are you thinking something like this, just an FJ front, or are you looking at something with a bigger cab and bed?
 
#9 ·
Are you thinking something like this, just an FJ front, or are you looking at something with a bigger cab and bed?
Yup, basically like that just with my own twists. The bed will be very close to what Chris did on that rig....



I basically just want enough space to lay a full size spare tire down in the bed for the most part. I can tip the tire up on its side for hauling the odd thing around town or leave the tire at home. Dry bags for gear in the tire like I do in the Willys. There should be room for tool bags and kitchen gear also. I would also like to be able to plop a tent-cot on top of the tire for long trips like UA.

Some more naughty pictures of ideas...



The front clip is going to be modified to look like this but hopefully with a nice aluminum sheet inner fender system to keep the muck of the engine.



Here is an Australian FJ45-esk that had the doors 'pinched' parallel to make the tub narrower....about 55" wide. That is about 4" narrower than a normal CJ/YJ tub. I like the proportions of the body on that one. I'm going to be playing around with the height of the tub line a little bit I think to make the bed idea work like I want.

Lots of other details brewing.
 
#11 ·
I've had the alternate idea to build a 'cab-truck' type thing for a few years as an alternative to my 'bodied buggy' project that I just couldn't get off the ground. I had thought about using a JKU frame as a base a lot since I helped with the UA Summer Camp Jeep this spring. I think that idea has promise, but it would be pressing the general size I wanted. The JKU is a 116" wheelbase and that is starting to get a bit long to me. I wanted something about 110" with a 40-42" tire. That seems to work really well for the most part.

I started hunting around for a chassis that would give me a more 'complete' package that wouldn't require a ton of work to run a 40" tire. I wanted a strong box frame, coil suspension, about a 110" wheelbase, etc. I have always liked the J80 series. They where always had a bit too much body, where a little too portly, slightly underpowered, and the departure angle kinda sucked. I basically started asking myself about what if I 'fixed' all those issues. Reading this build in pirate gave me a good visual starting point for what I was thinking about....

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-land-cruiser/1886386-kulas-fj220-build.html

This answered a lot of the 'what if' type questions for me as far as proportions and where things might end up in the chassis. It also gives me a pretty good idea that a 40" tire will fit like I want.

In the end I basically just stumbled on the FZJ80/LX450 chassis donor. The amount of 'stuff' I am getting for a very fair price helped push me in the direction of using that chassis. When you start add up what even a set of selectable lockers cost in the aftermarket this donor became a screaming deal. My plan is to keep the stock frame, suspension, axles, and steering. That should give me a really neat base to start with. It should also be a lot less work than my Rango build where I had to design and build the frame from scratch!

The same time I was trying to strike a deal on the chassis I stumbled on this build in Kula's build above.

http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyota-land-cruiser/1028518-project-goin-big-fj40.html

That build is where I think I first saw the 'pinched' door opening thing done. That idea started rolling around in my head a bit and I ended up surfing some Australian forums and found some similar rigs with the doors pinched to narrow the body width.

While I was waiting for the owner of the LX450 to finish removing the engine I stumbled onto the FJ40 tub, hood, and grill.

And here we are...
 
#13 ·
Meh. A Land Cruiser isn't really jumping ship. I have one of those too.

Realistically, assuming you don't get anyone pregnant, the only logical next step from one 4x4 is buying another one.

It should be a cool build otherwise. 80 series drivetrain is bad ass for the weight.
 
#17 ·
All you 'truck' guys where making me all jealous with all that space and wheelbase at UA this year!

It's kinda funny. I ended up changing from a project where I was going to have to make another chassis and suspension with a 'production' body to one where I am basically just doing a lot of body work now.

It's still going to be WAY smaller than your GMC! I can't make it too easy on myself....
 
#19 · (Edited)
This is my friend Verne's new Willys truck project....



Once I started seeing pictures like this I started to get pretty hot and bothered for a little pickup build. I didn't really just want to copy it. I love the look but I am pretty sure that I wanted a body tub that was more modular....

Then at Ultimate Adventure this year Pewe 'rented' Kenny's CJ10 truck after the transmission went out in the CJ17...



I did a little hunting around for a CJ10 tub but didn't come up with much. I talked to Aqualu about one too. I was thinking about sticking one on a JKU frame with all stock JK suspension.

Chris Durham also brought this on UA this year....



I crawled all over them for the week :evil:

What I think I boiled it down to is that this class of vehicle just doesn't really exist in the USA in stock form. Basically, these are small MID-size trucks.

The wheelbase is about 110" which seems to be a great compromise between climbing ability and stability versus maneuverability. They not running small engines. Most mini-trucks in the USA come with a 4cyl or 6cyl at best. These are running mostly smaller v8 power with some 6cyl mixed in....or insane big block power in Verne's case. The axles are heavier duty. The tires tend to hover around the 40-42" range.

In general, the tubs/cabs/bodies on these are actually pretty small. I would say they are about the size of a mini-truck but with a difference....vertical height and seating position. Most mini-truck cabs the seat is pretty close to the floor and your legs are way out in front. Most Jeeps and vehicles like FJ40/45s have you in a more upright seating position, where I think the visibility is a bit better.

The other interesting part about using a jeep or land cruiser tub like this, is that they are modular ( Verne isn't playing well with others here ). I really like the idea of a modular tub instead of a one piece cab. Even though the overall size of the tub is pretty minimal, if you play around hard enough long enough your going to end up taking out the A-pillar, windshield, or the edge of the top along the door. With a modular tub design it is a lot easier to replace those parts when needed. If the top is modular you also have the ability to just pull off panels as the trails get harder....or the weather gets hotter!

I helped build a few FJ40s in the past and always thought they had character. If you kinda squint they kinda look like a blend of a Willys truck nose on a jeep CJ body.

What I really started digging on was the idea of a body slightly narrower than a stock CJ/YJ tub. They are about 59" wide and thought they had a little 'extra' in the hips when doing tight trail work. I've thought about narrowing one, but that always seems like a ton of detail work. When I started looking at this idea for 'pinching' the doors on the J40 series, the overall size started to look really neat. A 55" tub is about 4" narrower than a stock CJ/YJ tub. Not too much different, most people might not even notice. Since I am just going to pinch the doors the front of the tub can remain stock. The windshield frame can be all stock at 55" wide or so. The hood can also remain stock.

I will probably french some little fenders into the hood but I shouldn't have to narrow it or pie cut it. I will be reworking the grill shell a bit. The stock J40 grill shape just looks off without fenders bolted to it in my opinion. I think I am going to end up keeping the stock bezel shape, but narrowing up the distance between the headlights a bit. That should allow me to make the side of the grill shell just an outward taper. That should give the front tire a little more room when turning and stuffing also...

Blah blah blah.
 
#21 ·
Yea, I don't see the FJ as being straying far from the fold. And one thing I like about the Willys forum is all the crap that's in some of the other areas of Pirate doesn't exist.

Yes, please link that build thread here as I will be a frequent viewer.

I'd guess most of us have a non-Willys rig in the stable. Here's my Jimmy dalliance which I think is a natural addition to the stable! (It's actually what I learned to drive in circa 1980 and part of the family...NOT just a truck!)

 
#22 · (Edited)
The next big part...



And then after a day of work....



Now I have a great looking chassis to build on! Full box frame. Front and rear coil/link suspension, nice 63" wide axles with 4.10 gears with selectable lockers, 4 wheel disc brakes with integrated rear parking brake, and a steering system with a forward swinging box that can be tucked behind the grill.

It was amazing how clean this J80 was before it was wreaked. It only has 108K miles on it! I will give it a nice long new life....
 
#26 ·
Most likely...

GM Gen 4 5.3 LS truck engine
GM 6l80e automatic
Land Rover LT230 transfer case (with 1.2 or 1.4 high range?)

I am going to keep the 'stock' 63" wide J80 axles with E-locker diffs and 4.10 gears. They will be getting alloy axles and some other small upgrades eventually.
 
#29 ·
40's :evil: I have my eye on a set of the ProComp MT2's. They are being made by Maxxis from what I have been able to dig up.



Everyone I have talked to running the 40" version has been pretty dang happy for $399 a tire ( shipped! )

The 6L80's have come down in price and are now very well supported in the tuning community. The wide gear spread makes so many options practical now with an automatic. You can run an affordable 2:1 low range t-case and get close to the same gearing as an atlas. That 4:1 first gear really buys you a lot of gearing. With the double overdrive its almost a shame that gearing deeper than 5.3X isn't more common. I think these transmissions would work really well with something in the 6-6.5:1 range with 40-42" tires.

I have wanted to use one of the 6l80s in a build for a while now. The 8-speed is going to be even better in the next few years. I had a np205 sitting on the shelf, but with the double offset axles I had to find another option. I think the underdrive high range and full time capability of the LT230 sounds pretty interesting for the J80 chassis with the factory 4.10 E-locker diffs.
 
#31 ·
Depends how you drive I guess, for me it will probably be ok. My hope is that this thing will be 3500-4000lbs. This isn't a KOH car. This isn't a rock bouncer. This isn't a cone dodger. It is just a trail rig that will still have a body that I don't want to completely trash.

300M stuff is an option for front shafts....and the birfields are the larger J80 units. In the end, it's a compromise. The high pinion j80 front diff is going to be pretty strong going forward, but has it's limitations when backup bound up. I've seen a few 9.5" LC center J80 front axles custom built also. If I get the chance I will probably upgrade the stock centers with solid pinion spacers and some more carrier bearing preload.

I wanted a complete chassis to build off of, one that the frame, suspension, axles, gearing, lockers, and steering where already 'done' for the most part. This J80 fit that list pretty well for the cost.
 
#32 ·
Mieser,

If you plan to use the FJ80 axles make sure to look into the new high steer options that have pretty recently been made. Those axles are VERY beef from the factory.

Do love me some FJ40 builds though, are you doing the thread here? :D
 
#33 ·
I think this is going to be too low for high steering. I plan to keep the suspension very close to stock height and There isn't much room from the drag link to the frame with the suspension fully compressed....



I stole that from the pacfab fj80 truggy thread....

This is my hidden anti-build thread at this point. :evil:
 
#34 ·
I got an early christmas present from one of the UA Alumni when the LX450 chassis came down from denver....



This is an older LT230 transfer case from a Defender 110. This one has the 1.4 high range which is a bit rare in the USA. The rear output parts are MIA, but I can find another donor LT230 for some parts and spares. This will make a nice mockup case and will give me the option for 1.4 high range, or 1.2 high range, depending on what I get for another parts case.

I found it interesting how large this case really is. That is a Ford NP205 behind it!
 
#35 ·
make sure its hidden here. your not the only one jumping ship. i'm taking my 79 yota 2x shop truck and making it the new m38-6 with doors and AC. 4.3/700r/300 ifs stuff on a solid front at 60"wms. something to keep in mind on the 8sp auto. I have a 14 dodge standard cab short bed v6 8 spd. on the flat freeway it rocks, in the hills I fawking hate it. pulled a 1500lb trailer up to the north rim last week and the fawker shifted at least a 1000 times in 9 miles. some time 4 down shifts in 4 seconds to up shift 4 in 10 seconds. not the transmissions fault the motor has no low end but still I hope this POS will catch fire and burns to the ground :shaking:
 
#37 ·
About the same size as an np205 :)

I think the front/rear outputs are 9" off the transmission input. These cases sit sit at a decent angle stock also though...not flat.

Good thing I have all that space in the splayed J80 chassis! The J80 frame tapers from about a 28" center in front to a 43.5" center in the rear! There is over 41" of room side to side for a fuel tank between the rear frame rails behind the axle. It shouldn't be too hard to get 25-30 gallons of capacity without too much hanging down to get in the way.



My original intent was to have the bed be big enough to lay a full size 40" spare tire down in the bed. That doesn't look like it is going to be that difficult. My only fear at this point is that the bed is going to be very shallow since the upper rear spring mounts sit to high. I'll know more once I get a body tub stuck on the frame.
 
#38 ·
It's going to be pretty cool! I did not catch the low range in the Rover t-case while skimming but it looks like you got the gearing figured out in your head. But the first gear ratio plus the torque converter torque multiplication, a 2-1 case will probably get you into the 65-80 to 1 reduction in low range which will be plenty.
I had suggested a Cherokee or Wagoneer at the beginning of your brainstorming sessions or even an early Jeepster. Wagoneers and Cherokees are 110" WB.
After suggesting it to you I thought about building a Avalanche type vehicle out of a Wagoneer. I don't possess your skills or have the tools to work at your level so if I decide on a midsize vehicle that will probably be the direction I go.
Does this chassis have the full float rear axle?
I agree on your assessment of the front axle, you can drive well enough to keep a Dana 30 alive with 35's. I hardly doubt you'll kill a Toyota 8.5 with 40's and an automatic.
Did you ever install the spring and fuel pin in the Dodge? I was curious how that changed the performance values of the Cummins.
Lastly, how's the river looking?
 
#39 ·
Low range on the rover LT230 is 3.32:1. That will put me at 54:1 with the stock 4.10 axles and the 4:1 1st gear on the 6l80e. For me, I think that is just about perfect for a smaller v8 and 40s. I think 65-80:1 with an automatic would be way too low....

FSJ's just have too much body for what I want to do. I don't really want something with a body that has to be disposable. In the end I want the wheelbase bonus....but not the body to get in the way.

Yes. This J80 chassis is a 1996 version and has the full float disc brake rear axle....with the elocker option.

I think the front axle will be ok but not great. With my driving style it will at least have a prayer. My hope is that this car will only be about 3500-4000lbs when finished....that is probably 1000-2000lbs lighter than the stock J80 depending on how it was loaded/built. They seem to be fairly durable all said and done.

No pin or spring in the Dodge. I am just too lazy and drive it every day.

The river stuff sucks!
 
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