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Old 04-12-2018, 04:00 PM   #51 (permalink)
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Dont mean to necropost, but thank you for this write up sjracer. Has anyone tried a multi-piston caliper (Wilwood, or the like)?
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Old 04-12-2018, 06:31 PM   #52 (permalink)
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I'd like to know why we aren't regularly seeing modern HD rear disc swaps instead of this old single piston stuff. I'm not fawking around with hard-to-find, obscenely expensive, and undersized Caddy calipers. Surely there's a way to swap the rear disc and PB setup off a modern truck using nothing more than part numbers and a little ingenuity, but I've yet to see it. Maybe I just need to search harder, but it sure seems like retrofit disc brake tech hasn't evolved much in the last fifteen years...
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Old 04-12-2018, 09:01 PM   #53 (permalink)
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Exactly Posi, anyone else have a multi-piston caliper setup that they could/would share?
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Old 04-13-2018, 06:52 AM   #54 (permalink)
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I have a factory disc housing under my truck but owned a disc-brake swapped drum housing before that. I don't know for sure, but I imagine if you're able to cut off the factory drum brake flange, and weld on a custom flange for the factory HD disc brakes, you'd be set.

I think the reason nobody offers a conversion kit lies in the fact that the GM caliper brackets and all the components needed to make the modern disc brakes work are going to be very expensive. I think the caliper brackets alone are around $100 each including the backing plate (which is necessary if you want to use the e-brake). Then a full e-brake rebuild is going to be around $100 or so with all the components and rotors and calipers. Rotors and calipers are around $50 each. Without considering all the small parts you may need, expect to pay over $400 just for new HD components. Granted, you could save a lot of cost getting some of this stuff at a junkyard (mainly the caliper brackets - everything else in a JY is probably junk).

Another thing to consider is that the factory-disc axle has slide-on rotor and all the disc brake conversion kits are stud-mounted rotors. I'd expect that the hub OD needs to be milled down to fit slide on rotors, but I am not certain.
EDIT: I'm dumb, you could also grab a hub from a factory-disc axle if you weren't buying new. If you were, this would add even more cost to the conversion.

I guess the bottom line is that at some point it makes more sense just to swap the entire axle like I did, cost-wise. I found my factory-disc axle for $250 and rebuilt the brakes for another ~$250. Sold my old axle for $350 so out of pocket it wasn't too pricey for me.

With that said, if you want I should be able to get you the exact dimensions of the factory-disc brake flange from a 3D model I have, if you'd like to have one cut locally and start messing with it. Hell, I can even get the dimension from the WMS of the hub to the flange so you can get the distance right.
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Old 04-13-2018, 12:36 PM   #55 (permalink)
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It would be interesting to see braking force data to compare for example the eldo, stock drum and stock disc/drum parking brake. IIRC you guys in US don't have any real test for parking brakes at MOT like we have here in Finland? Braking force is displayed for every tire in kN.
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Old 04-13-2018, 01:51 PM   #56 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMANbluesfreak View Post
I have a factory disc housing under my truck but owned a disc-brake swapped drum housing before that. I don't know for sure, but I imagine if you're able to cut off the factory drum brake flange, and weld on a custom flange for the factory HD disc brakes, you'd be set.

I think the reason nobody offers a conversion kit lies in the fact that the GM caliper brackets and all the components needed to make the modern disc brakes work are going to be very expensive. I think the caliper brackets alone are around $100 each including the backing plate (which is necessary if you want to use the e-brake). Then a full e-brake rebuild is going to be around $100 or so with all the components and rotors and calipers. Rotors and calipers are around $50 each. Without considering all the small parts you may need, expect to pay over $400 just for new HD components. Granted, you could save a lot of cost getting some of this stuff at a junkyard (mainly the caliper brackets - everything else in a JY is probably junk).

Another thing to consider is that the factory-disc axle has slide-on rotor and all the disc brake conversion kits are stud-mounted rotors. I'd expect that the hub OD needs to be milled down to fit slide on rotors, but I am not certain.
EDIT: I'm dumb, you could also grab a hub from a factory-disc axle if you weren't buying new. If you were, this would add even more cost to the conversion.

I guess the bottom line is that at some point it makes more sense just to swap the entire axle like I did, cost-wise. I found my factory-disc axle for $250 and rebuilt the brakes for another ~$250. Sold my old axle for $350 so out of pocket it wasn't too pricey for me.

With that said, if you want I should be able to get you the exact dimensions of the factory-disc brake flange from a 3D model I have, if you'd like to have one cut locally and start messing with it. Hell, I can even get the dimension from the WMS of the hub to the flange so you can get the distance right.
I have an old school 14 bolt under my 03 Escalade. It currently has 10 bolt calipers on it without a parking brake. I converted the vehicle to a manual transmission and would really like to have a proper parking brake. I would be very keen on getting the CAD dimensions so I can get some flanges cut out and installed to make the swap.

I'd much rather put OEM 14 bolt disc brakes with a parking brake on than mess around with the old Eldorado calipers, even if the cost is higher as it would mean that I can use the stock park brake cables on my Caddy. I would just put a newer diff under the truck, but it has been fully trussed and 3-linked already. Re-doing all that for the sake of a park brake doesn't make sense.
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Old 04-13-2018, 05:21 PM   #57 (permalink)
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How hard would it be to make a plate adapter to go from the common old 14 bolt backing plate pattern to something like the 03 and newer ram 10.5 setup? Is there a reason people dont want the drum inside of a rotor style e-brake?
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Old 04-14-2018, 02:10 AM   #58 (permalink)
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Not hard at all, IF the offset would happen to be close enough. The reason people don't do that was just told, it's really expensive if you use new parts.
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Old 04-14-2018, 05:26 AM   #59 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by DMANbluesfreak View Post
I guess the bottom line is that at some point it makes more sense just to swap the entire axle like I did, cost-wise. I found my factory-disc axle for $250 and rebuilt the brakes for another ~$250. Sold my old axle for $350 so out of pocket it wasn't too pricey for me.

With that said, if you want I should be able to get you the exact dimensions of the factory-disc brake flange from a 3D model I have, if you'd like to have one cut locally and start messing with it. Hell, I can even get the dimension from the WMS of the hub to the flange so you can get the distance right.
If you're starting from scratch, I'm sure you're right that it would make the most sense to just swap in a complete late model rear if you can find one in good shape. That's the path I'd like to take if I could find something in decent condition, but of course you have to deal with buying/building whatever mounts you need, and lugging heavy-ass axles around when all you're really after is brakes. And, like SierraClassic said, if you've done a bunch of work to your axle, a swap isn't so appealing.

The dimensional info might be real handy; thanks.

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MAKE SURE TO GET ALL THE PARTS AND TOOLS TOGETHER BEFORE STARTING THIS. IT CAN TAKE WEEKS TO GET ELDORADO CALIPERS.
This is one of the main things that puts me off this swap.

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i found a 76 eldo at Pick and pull that still had the rear calipers. they cost me (with core charge) $25 each out the door. i found them on the internet for around $135 per w/core of around $45

when you look at the price of doing a driveline e-brake, it's kind of a wash.
And this is another. For the western guys with junkyards stuffed full of pristine vintage sheetmetal it might be no bid deal, but there is no chance of ever seeing a 70's Eldorado in a yard here, let alone one with working brakes, and $360 just for a pair of bare calipers is nuts.

Just so nobody gets the wrong idea, I read this when it was first posted and I appreciate sjracer's excellent write-up. I seriously thought about doing it for awhile, but the cost and parts availability issue is just more than I want to deal with, and I'm just surprised in all the years since we started doing disc brake swaps, nobody has pieced together a more modern kit. I realize it would be expensive, but really, so is this setup, and late model brakes would perform better and have way better serviceability.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:43 AM   #60 (permalink)
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I have an old school 14 bolt under my 03 Escalade. It currently has 10 bolt calipers on it without a parking brake. I converted the vehicle to a manual transmission and would really like to have a proper parking brake. I would be very keen on getting the CAD dimensions so I can get some flanges cut out and installed to make the swap.

I'd much rather put OEM 14 bolt disc brakes with a parking brake on than mess around with the old Eldorado calipers, even if the cost is higher as it would mean that I can use the stock park brake cables on my Caddy. I would just put a newer diff under the truck, but it has been fully trussed and 3-linked already. Re-doing all that for the sake of a park brake doesn't make sense.
I totally hear you on that one. I'll get you some basic dimensions and we'll go from there. I can get more dimensions as needed.

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How hard would it be to make a plate adapter to go from the common old 14 bolt backing plate pattern to something like the 03 and newer ram 10.5 setup? Is there a reason people dont want the drum inside of a rotor style e-brake?
It would be pretty tough I think. Some of the holes would overlap, some wouldn't. I don't have dimensions of an older 14b flange anymore to measure from, though. Not to mention, if the offset of the older flange is too far out, it definitely won't work.
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:57 AM   #61 (permalink)
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Dimensions in Millimeters because that's NX's default setting and I'm lazy.

Mind you, I don't think the shoulder they add is necessary for a homebrew setup. It's there solely as a shoulder for the caliper bracket to center on. If you're careful when you assemble things, I think you could get away without it.
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Old 04-14-2018, 09:12 AM   #62 (permalink)
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First picture is just an outlined cutaway. I'm not sure why the outlines go away when I add dimensions.


Flange outer face to hub outer face (where brake disc will mate) dimension:


Overall hub diameter (to see if machining the hub down is necessary to fit the disc hat over it):
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Old 04-14-2018, 08:05 PM   #63 (permalink)
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Yeah unfortunately I dont have an old 14 bolt laying around either, just 94 ram dana70, 03 ram 10.5 and a 06 ram 11.5. If it looks like it would be possible at all I'll be glad to try and grab some measurements off a buddies truck that has a 80's srw 10.5 under it.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:13 AM   #64 (permalink)
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Perfect! Thanks so much! I'll be working on getting this done in the near future.
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Old 04-16-2018, 11:43 AM   #65 (permalink)
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Keep me posted on what you work out on it. I'd love to see how it works.
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Old 08-03-2018, 02:59 AM   #66 (permalink)
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I've now mounted the calipers on my K10. Service brake works great, parking brake works but not too great. The pads are very close to the rotors, not really any gap there. Parking brake levers moves away from the stop about 15mm (0.6in).

I did the parking brake levers myself and to get them in a good angle I ground off some nub on the caliper to give space for the lever. I assumed this would not matter and the ratcheting/adjustment would work anyways. Is this correct? Why do I get so much travel even though I dont have much pad gap at all?

I have vehicle inspection in an hour so I'll know if its good enough but just confused why I have so much movement on the lever.


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Old 08-03-2018, 09:28 AM   #67 (permalink)
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No where near to pass inspection... I got one side adjusted properly but this other side just wont index at all. I get that 15mm gap between the lever and stop and the brakes grab but it will just not index/adjust and I've tried every tip and guide I can find. I did have the hydraulic brakes bled and working before, which you are not supposed to do before adjusting p-brake, but I removed brake hose and it just wont adjust. Did it mess something inside the caliper?

https://youtu.be/XE9QtOONfmg

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Old 10-12-2018, 11:50 PM   #68 (permalink)
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Thanks DMANbluesfreak! I've been searching Pirate and the net for the past couple weeks but unable to find a drawing of the newer AAM 14 bolt backing plate flange, until today and this thread. FINALLY found it! Any chance you can share the NX model or STEP it out? I use NX at work.

I have a mid 90s corp 14b from a dually going into my LJ. Not sure what drum setup it came with as the brakes were completely removed when I bought the axle. Has the DRW hubs but narrowed to 64-3/4 WMS. I am trying to get the newer 14b disc brakes on it so I can have the drum-in-hat parking brake. I need the newer flange to weld onto my tube and now I can look into getting some made. I can't use a bolt-in adapter like Right Gear and Axle sold a few years ago because that's for the SRW axle.

I can get some measurements from my 14b to verify against your model. I need a larger set of calipers for the hub outer diameter as I only have 6" at the house. I'll grab some larger from work and get the dimension.

Exactly which years and engine combo has the newer 14b with the discs and drum-in-hat with 8x6.5? I've seen mention of 99-up and 02-up. I found one locally out of a 1999 2500 on CL and from the photo it looks like it has what I need.

Thanks again!
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Old 10-13-2018, 05:34 PM   #69 (permalink)
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Thanks DMANbluesfreak! I've been searching Pirate and the net for the past couple weeks but unable to find a drawing of the newer AAM 14 bolt backing plate flange, until today and this thread. FINALLY found it! Any chance you can share the NX model or STEP it out? I use NX at work.

I have a mid 90s corp 14b from a dually going into my LJ. Not sure what drum setup it came with as the brakes were completely removed when I bought the axle. Has the DRW hubs but narrowed to 64-3/4 WMS. I am trying to get the newer 14b disc brakes on it so I can have the drum-in-hat parking brake. I need the newer flange to weld onto my tube and now I can look into getting some made. I can't use a bolt-in adapter like Right Gear and Axle sold a few years ago because that's for the SRW axle.

I can get some measurements from my 14b to verify against your model. I need a larger set of calipers for the hub outer diameter as I only have 6" at the house. I'll grab some larger from work and get the dimension.

Exactly which years and engine combo has the newer 14b with the discs and drum-in-hat with 8x6.5? I've seen mention of 99-up and 02-up. I found one locally out of a 1999 2500 on CL and from the photo it looks like it has what I need.

Thanks again!
I can probably get you the file, but it might be a while. I left it on my work computer and next week is going to be pretty crazy. Shoot me a PM to remind me.

Anyway, the newer 14b 10.5 comes under 2001+ 2500HD trucks with 6.0L engines, 2500 Suburbans/Avalanches with 8.1L engines, and 3/4-1-ton vans (wider) - not sure which engines/trims for the vans.

Keep in mind the 99-00 2500 trucks and 6.0L 2500 suburbans (all years) only had the 9.5 semifloater 14b. I do not know if the brakes are the same, but I would guess at least the rotors are different since it's a semifloater.
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Old 10-15-2018, 06:15 PM   #70 (permalink)
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I can probably get you the file, but it might be a while. I left it on my work computer and next week is going to be pretty crazy. Shoot me a PM to remind me.

Anyway, the newer 14b 10.5 comes under 2001+ 2500HD trucks with 6.0L engines, 2500 Suburbans/Avalanches with 8.1L engines, and 3/4-1-ton vans (wider) - not sure which engines/trims for the vans.

Keep in mind the 99-00 2500 trucks and 6.0L 2500 suburbans (all years) only had the 9.5 semifloater 14b. I do not know if the brakes are the same, but I would guess at least the rotors are different since it's a semifloater.
Thanks. Will PM you. I'm not in rush. Still researching it all so I make sure I get what will work and not something that'll mean more work to make work. Have also read about the 99-up (or around there) E350 D60FF brakes work as well, with the custom bracket. But those look to have rotors that go behind the hub and held on by the studs, unlike the 2500HD ones which go over the over and studs.

Thanks.
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Old 10-16-2018, 06:49 AM   #71 (permalink)
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Yeah I dig the slip-on, drum-in-hat rotors from the 2500HD. But part of that is because I already have the same e-brake cables coming from my cab.
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Old 10-17-2018, 10:52 AM   #72 (permalink)
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Has anyone tried Ruffstuff's Cadillac El Dorado Caliper Set With Parking Brake Lever?

https://www.ruffstuffspecialties.com...g/R2262-A.html
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