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Old 01-03-2020, 05:27 PM   #1451 (permalink)
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How did they fail / could you tell how they failed? Were your caps tack welded?

Bggrnchvy mentioned to me that he had caps spinning inside his Yukon chromos and eventually got so loose they started having issues.
Both the u joint failures I had two opposing trunions sheared off from the body clean. On the one that failed on me in low range in the rock garden at Mt Mud Run, the two yoke ears on the broken side shaft had the sheared trunions and caps still in them! Unfortunately when it unloaded and I backed out the shafts contacted and tweaked the ears and made re-assembly impossible.

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Old 01-03-2020, 09:57 PM   #1452 (permalink)
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Damn! That's a strange break in my opinion.

Hopefully the superjoints do the trick for you!
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Old 01-06-2020, 02:33 PM   #1453 (permalink)
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Old 01-07-2020, 07:25 AM   #1454 (permalink)
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Do I get kudos for doing more work than necessary?

Despite wanting to go to a tension shackle setup and Deavers/Alcans/Atlas custom springs in the rear after breaking my rear leaf... I picked up a set of 2500 springs to get the truck roadworthy again. My wife and I are on a tighter budget this year so it'll be a couple months before I can save the scratch for the custom setup (I estimate around $1500 for springs, new perches to adjust pinion angle, and new shackle hangers).

Anywho... I should have just bolted the rusty fuckers in the truck and called it good... but here we are.

I continually love my choice in DD / go-fast car / parts runner


Ordered new friction pads for it, too. They'll be here Wednesday and I can button the pack up and start working on getting it in the truck.


Already started drawing up a tension shackle hanger. The only non-factory ones I can find were pretty damn expensive and this one I can play with the shackle location to adjust pinion angle and account for a longer shackle if I want. Plus it's beefier.
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Old 01-07-2020, 11:36 AM   #1455 (permalink)
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What is your wheelbase on this? It seems to work good, do you wish it were shorter or longer, or is it just right?
Travis..
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:20 PM   #1456 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by DMANbluesfreak View Post
Do I get kudos for doing more work than necessary?

Despite wanting to go to a tension shackle setup and Deavers/Alcans/Atlas custom springs in the rear after breaking my rear leaf... I picked up a set of 2500 springs to get the truck roadworthy again. My wife and I are on a tighter budget this year so it'll be a couple months before I can save the scratch for the custom setup (I estimate around $1500 for springs, new perches to adjust pinion angle, and new shackle hangers).

Anywho... I should have just bolted the rusty fuckers in the truck and called it good... but here we are.

I continually love my choice in DD / go-fast car / parts runner


Ordered new friction pads for it, too. They'll be here Wednesday and I can button the pack up and start working on getting it in the truck.


Already started drawing up a tension shackle hanger. The only non-factory ones I can find were pretty damn expensive and this one I can play with the shackle location to adjust pinion angle and account for a longer shackle if I want. Plus it's beefier.
Now these aren't available...
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Old 01-07-2020, 02:45 PM   #1457 (permalink)
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Now these aren't available...
IDK what's going on this time. I checked them when I made the post and they worked and now they're not no matter what I do.

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What is your wheelbase on this? It seems to work good, do you wish it were shorter or longer, or is it just right?
Travis..
133"

I'd say its good but not great. The only thing I don't like it about it is breakover angle isn't the best. I don't care if I drag belly, but it does keep me from getting up stuff from time to time. I can't really go much shorter without the bed being utterly useless or the rear tires being in the back of the cab. A reg cab wheelbase is a lot more maneuverable and will have better breakover if everything else is the same as mine.

That said, for as top heavy as this thing is, it sure is nice having the extra wheelbase over most jeeps when doing climbs and descents. I really like how it performs compared to the old wheelbase and have very little wish to shorten it further.
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:52 AM   #1458 (permalink)
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IDK what's going on this time. I checked them when I made the post and they worked and now they're not no matter what I do.
Whatever you did fixed the issue
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Old 01-08-2020, 08:54 AM   #1459 (permalink)
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Whatever you did fixed the issue
I didn't do anything. Perhaps the google public server was temporarily down or something.

Whatever, it works now!
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Old 01-08-2020, 09:03 AM   #1460 (permalink)
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So... apparently, not all spring packs are created equally (duh!) even from truck to truck. I'm guessing there's a year break or trim level difference but anyway... doing some calculations to determine spring rates of the old leaf pack compared to the new one (or combinations of the new one with springs removed). The spring dimensions are listed below with the amount of sag at ride height approximated by the unsprung weight fully loaded.

Old:
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .403 x 60.25"
Bottom: .433 x 51"
Spring rate: 227.07 lb/in - Squat = 7.49"

New pack (4 Leaves):
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .359 x 59.5"
Middle: .359 x 55.25"
Bottom: .378 x 51"
Spring rate: 250.7 lb/in - Squat = 6.78"

New pack (3 Leaves):
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .359 x 59.5"
Bottom: .378 x 51"
Spring rate: 190.94 lb/in - Squat = 8.90"

New pack (3 Leaves, alt):
Main: .403 x 64"
Middle: .359 x 55.25"
Bottom: .378 x 51"
Spring rate: 202.85 lb/in - Squat = 8.38"

Looks to me like the truck will ride around 3/4" higher than previously if I do nothing. Most likely I'll chop the overload down to become a zero rate and remove my 2" block. This will lower the rear about half an inch (assuming the overload is around 3/4" thick, I didn't measure it yet), which should be fine to get me through until I can afford some fancy springs and convert to a tension shackle setup. Flex won't be quite as good, but my fancy photographer buddy who rode with me (@mattspitchers on IG) took this shot and I think I'll be okay with a 10% stiffer rear end. This is before the driver's side spring broke, before anyone asks



I toyed with the idea of cutting the old main leaves down to size, but then I can't bring a spare main leaf with me and I'd really like to do that just in case there's ever a catastrophic failure.

The other option is for me to ditch the 6" shackle and put my 4" shackle in, leaving the 2" block in place. I think this would mess with the pinion angle too much, though.
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Old 01-09-2020, 07:39 AM   #1461 (permalink)
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Got the springs squared away last night.

Looking at the amount of arch between the old and new spring (not in the picture, I measured the old pack after putting it back together), there's approximately 1" more arch in the new springs.
Old:
Spring rate: 227.07 lb/in
Squat = 7.49"
-2" block
Total = 5.49"

New pack (4 Leaves):
Spring rate: 250.7 lb/in - Squat = 6.78"
-0.7" zero rate
-1" additional arch
Total Squat= 5.08"
Height compared to previous setup = 5.49" - 5.08" = +0.41"

Thus, if they squat as much as my calculations suggest, I'll actually end up a smidge higher than I was on the old springs. I can ditch the 3/4" "zero rate" (AKA cut down overload spring) to drop it down if it ends up higher than I calculated. Sorry if I'm boring you all with math... this is the stuff I enjoy

Now just waiting on new shackle bushings because the sleeves on my old ones were a solid hit away from crumbling due to rust.

Speaking of which... Does anyone know of a OE-application rubber bushing that would press into 1.75" ID DOM that's 2.5" wide and has a 3" sleeve? Similar to what you'd press into a leaf spring eye. I'd like to ditch these poly bushings if possible because they only seem to last like 2 salty Illinois winters before being unusable. Greasable ones help, but that still seems to only prolong the life another year or two.
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Old 01-09-2020, 10:09 PM   #1462 (permalink)
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If you can't get the bushings you're looking for, try marine grease on whatever you do toss in there. It works great up here in NH with all the salt and weather we see. The BRP brand is called Triple Guard and the grease gun tube is PN 775776.
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:37 AM   #1463 (permalink)
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If you can't get the bushings you're looking for, try marine grease on whatever you do toss in there. It works great up here in NH with all the salt and weather we see. The BRP brand is called Triple Guard and the grease gun tube is PN 775776.
I second this.

Since switching to marine grease 3 years ago i haven't had to replace a u-joint, rod end, or bearing..... or even repack front wheel bearings.
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Old 01-10-2020, 06:52 AM   #1464 (permalink)
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Will do. You run marine grease in the wheel bearings too? No issues with it overheating?

I will say that the Energy suspension bushings I replaced these with have a seemingly solid (no visible weld seam) sleeve and are yellow-zinc plated. I don't think the old ones were. So these ought to last longer. I used the provided energy suspension grease which is super tacky (like marine grease), so again - these will probably last longer.

Still, I've gone 5-6 years on my front springs before I needed to replace the rubber bushings and it wasn't due to rust - they had just finally worn out due to all the flexing and whatnot. I'd much prefer a rubber bushing on my leaf spring shackle if at all possible.

I got the truck back together last night. Ended up taking out the cut-down overload from the pack since the rear measured higher than the front hub to fender when I set it down on jack stands. Didn't get a level-ground measurement, but it looks close to where it was before.



Yesterday on my lunch break, I went down the rabbit hole of leaf spring slider boxes for the next iteration of my rear suspension. I'm seriously considering this route, now. Looks like a lot of people have good luck with these even on a street-driven rig. The biggest thing would be making sure to plate the bottom of the slider box so that they don't get damaged coming down on them off-road, but that should be no problem. They'd be a fully custom design if I go this route so I can run really beefy UHMW sliders (or upgrade to bronze if those don't last long enough). It started out as a brain exercise but now I'm really liking this as an option.
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Old 01-10-2020, 07:49 AM   #1465 (permalink)
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Will do. You run marine grease in the wheel bearings too? No issues with it overheating?

I will say that the Energy suspension bushings I replaced these with have a seemingly solid (no visible weld seam) sleeve and are yellow-zinc plated. I don't think the old ones were. So these ought to last longer. I used the provided energy suspension grease which is super tacky (like marine grease), so again - these will probably last longer.

Still, I've gone 5-6 years on my front springs before I needed to replace the rubber bushings and it wasn't due to rust - they had just finally worn out due to all the flexing and whatnot. I'd much prefer a rubber bushing on my leaf spring shackle if at all possible.

I got the truck back together last night. Ended up taking out the cut-down overload from the pack since the rear measured higher than the front hub to fender when I set it down on jack stands. Didn't get a level-ground measurement, but it looks close to where it was before.


Yesterday on my lunch break, I went down the rabbit hole of leaf spring slider boxes for the next iteration of my rear suspension. I'm seriously considering this route, now. Looks like a lot of people have good luck with these even on a street-driven rig. The biggest thing would be making sure to plate the bottom of the slider box so that they don't get damaged coming down on them off-road, but that should be no problem. They'd be a fully custom design if I go this route so I can run really beefy UHMW sliders (or upgrade to bronze if those don't last long enough). It started out as a brain exercise but now I'm really liking this as an option.
Leaf spring sliders are cool. I actually built a set im not likely going to use. Super beefy, and i doubt I'd damage them if i landed on them. I'll post pics when i get into the shop again.
Truck's looking really good. Glad you're actually enjoying using it.
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Old 01-10-2020, 08:03 AM   #1466 (permalink)
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Are you wanting spring sliders front, rear, or both?
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Old 01-10-2020, 10:43 AM   #1467 (permalink)
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Leaf spring sliders are cool. I actually built a set im not likely going to use. Super beefy, and i doubt I'd damage them if i landed on them. I'll post pics when i get into the shop again.
Truck's looking really good. Glad you're actually enjoying using it.
Would love to see pictures. I haven't started drawing anything up, but will probably over the weekend if the weather is crappy.

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Are you wanting spring sliders front, rear, or both?
Only on the rear when I move to Deavers or Alcan springs. Front would be really difficult to package and if I'm trying to hold off redoing the front suspension until I one-day link it w/ coilovers (years in the future due to cost).
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Old 01-10-2020, 11:38 AM   #1468 (permalink)
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If you can't get the bushings you're looking for, try marine grease on whatever you do toss in there. It works great up here in NH with all the salt and weather we see. The BRP brand is called Triple Guard and the grease gun tube is PN 775776.
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I second this.

Since switching to marine grease 3 years ago i haven't had to replace a u-joint, rod end, or bearing..... or even repack front wheel bearings.
Good feedback. I was going to start doing some maintenance items soon, like pulling apart my hubs and packing the front bearings, and the use of marine grease keeps popping in my mind.
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:07 PM   #1469 (permalink)
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I enjoy the leaf spring tech of spring rates! I enjoy any of that odd tech...Looking good as always.

I have never been sold on slider boxes. What is the actual benefit to them?
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Old 01-10-2020, 01:23 PM   #1470 (permalink)
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I enjoy the leaf spring tech of spring rates! I enjoy any of that odd tech...Looking good as always.

I have never been sold on slider boxes. What is the actual benefit to them?
More lateral stability (especially on the road) and more linear/controlled spring rate modification than shackles. Since the shackles move in an arc, they affect the spring rate of the leaf spring as it changes from arched to flat and vice-versa. Slider boxes don't do this at all.

For my application, they also yield a better departure angle than a tension shackle and essentially the same departure angle as with compression shackles (since the spring eye is more or less the lowest point).

I'm still not fully sold on going this route, but it's worth exploring or maybe even trying out. I have a line on some 3" lift Alcan springs used from someone, which aren't quite arched enough for a tension shackle, but would be a good candidate for a slider box (or compression shackle setup).
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:19 AM   #1471 (permalink)
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After getting the leaf springs installed and some friendly ribbing from @BigLBZPower08 , I got a wild hair about installing the Custom/Prototype WFO Sway Bar I've had for over 5 years (!!) that they pulled off a GMT400 they were parting out.

It's a splined torsion bar style (like Currie) with clamp-on thick arms and uses UHMW bushings at each end of a tube to support the torsion bar. In the interest of saving weight, I didn't see the point in running a tube across the frame to support only the ends of the torsion bar, so I found some 1.5" and used it as an alignment bar. I calculate around 5lbs saved by eliminating the material between the mounts.



I also determined that due to my shock hoop design that the straight arms wouldn't clear no matter what I did, and I figured out that bent arms would work quite well.



I tried bending them with my home-fabbed (SWAG style) press brake and they wouldn't budge. But I was able to quickly whip up a die with more separation between the two sides and get the 3/4" thick w to bend with my 20t press. I upgraded my test arm to aluminum from cardboard to be doubly sure.



Trial 1 on the wider die was the right piece. Didn’t help. Trial 2 was adding the angle iron which increased the span almost double and I was finally able to get them to bend. I can’t do 90į, but I got them bent enough (with room to go further if I needed).


Final mockup and measurement/marking before tacking things in.


After confirming on the truck that things fit, I cut off the unnecessary stuff and welded the pieces together, reinsering the alignment bar for final weld.


And put some hefty tacks on the frame mounts and axle mounts:




Last steps are to remove one link at a time and flex the truck out to make sure there’s no unexpected interference with other components. I know for a fact that even flexed that the shocks will limit the travel before the arms hit the shock hoops, so I’m good there. The only thing I’m concerned with is if I leave the passenger side connected offroad (only remove the driver’s side link for simplicity) the link may interfere with the drag link under heavy droop. Time will tell, though. Locally I doubt I can get it to fully droop.

I'd also like to make the axle mounts tool-less quick disconnect - I've got some ideas on this. Oh, and tear everything apart for paint.
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Old 01-14-2020, 11:27 AM   #1472 (permalink)
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Killer setup for the swaybar. Iím sure it will help out a ton on the road.


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Old 01-14-2020, 11:38 AM   #1473 (permalink)
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sway bar setup is looking good so far. maybe go quick release on both sides at the axle side and weld another set of mounts to the shock hoops for when it's disconnected? pretty common setup on Jeeps
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Last edited by ]4RunnerKid[; 01-14-2020 at 11:39 AM.
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Old 01-14-2020, 12:25 PM   #1474 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by wvracer821 View Post
Killer setup for the swaybar. Iím sure it will help out a ton on the road.


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Thanks man! I just hope its not too stiff. Then again, my daily is a Mazdaspeed 3 that lifts a tire when I turn into my work parking lot ramp... so there's probably no such thing as too stiff

Quote:
Originally Posted by ]4RunnerKid[ View Post
sway bar setup is looking good so far. maybe go quick release on both sides at the axle side and weld another set of mounts to the shock hoops for when it's disconnected? pretty common setup on Jeeps
Well hot damn, that was my exact thought. It really comes down to if I need to remove both links offroad. If I remove just the driver's side, I need to tie the link up onto the arm somehow (should be easy).

If both need to be removed to accommodate full articulation, I'll tie them both into the frame or shock hoop like pictured there.

Something like this would be super cool, but overly complicated if I'm being honest with myself. https://www.quadratec.com/products/56016_300_07.htm

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Old 01-14-2020, 01:51 PM   #1475 (permalink)
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What are the dimensions of the bar? I have now been looking at the universal antirock bars to put in the same place as yours.
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