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Old 09-26-2015, 05:45 PM   #1 (permalink)
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241 case pips into neutral

First. I've searched. Trust me. I want this fixed. I'll try to make the story simple.

Got a 94 12 valve 5 speed 4x4. Cheap. Had issues. Got it home. No front driveshadt. And tcase linkage not hookes up. Had case leak bad. Turned out to be cracked rear case half. Fixed that. After getting back together. It would not sta in 2hi. Only 4hi. But it would make a sound above 60mph. It would stay in 2hi to about 55-60 mph. I do not know if it ever stayed I'm 2hi. We very well could have drove it home in 4hi.

Anyways. I've replaced the bushings on the shift forks. Checked and triple checked everything. My snap ring is good on the output. I can't make the shaft move than maybe a .02 back and forth. Nothing I would think should cause an issue.

I'm at my wits end here. I've had it apart 4 times. This last time I thought maybe I put the 4hi shift collar on backwards onto the synchro hub. So I swapped that. That made it worse. It would not stay in 4hi or 2 hi. Can someone at least confirm for me in my pics I have the synchro hub on the Manisha ft correctly? Does anyone see anything wrong with any of my stuff? I'll get any pics anyone needs. Thanks.
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Old 09-26-2015, 05:56 PM   #2 (permalink)
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While this might sound ghetto. To rule out my detent, I pulled the spring out and ran it solid. This seemed to hold it in gear, but it was pretty violent. I wasn't able to go faster than maybe 25 mph for fear of hurting sometbing. It felt like it was trying to yank itself into neutral. Pretty violently.
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Old 09-26-2015, 06:01 PM   #3 (permalink)
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This is the only spot I can find any wear. Anything that looks somewhat recent anyways. This is on both sides of the 4wd shift collar. I also bottomed some wear on the 4lo gear that slides into the planetary. But I'm pretty sure thats from my neutral issue.
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Old 09-28-2015, 06:29 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Bump. ..
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Old 09-28-2015, 10:54 PM   #5 (permalink)
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When you say it wont stay in 2 hi, where does it go from there? does the shifter yank past 4H into N?
Does 4 Lo work?

You did check adjustment of the shift rod?

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Old 09-29-2015, 09:59 AM   #6 (permalink)
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It goes from 2hi into neutral. On the tcase it's 2hi-2hi-n-lo in that order front to back.

The linkage is not hooked up at all to the case.

It stays in 4hi
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Old 09-29-2015, 10:01 AM   #7 (permalink)
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4hi-2hi-n-lo

Sorry wouldn't let me edit my post on mobile.
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Old 09-29-2015, 11:15 AM   #8 (permalink)
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I think you have 2hi and 4hi backward
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Old 09-29-2015, 01:08 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Since you bought it without a front driveshaft.... have you checked that the front and rear axle ratios are the same?
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:20 PM   #10 (permalink)
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The front shaft still is not hooked up. And trail tamer I thought the same thing. But there us no way yhe cade can shift that way. I've asked on other forums and they confirm that ar the case shift tab, it's 4hi-2hi -n-lo. Look at the pictures I posted of the main shaft. The synchro must move towards the rear if the vehicle to engage the 4wd gear.
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Old 09-29-2015, 06:42 PM   #11 (permalink)
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The front shaft still is not hooked up. And trail tamer I thought the same thing. But there us no way yhe cade can shift that way. I've asked on other forums and they confirm that ar the case shift tab, it's 4hi-2hi -n-lo. Look at the pictures I posted of the main shaft. The synchro must move towards the rear if the vehicle to engage the 4wd gear.
Mine is 2hi-4hi -n-lo, newer trucks with the late shifter are different.
Synchro motion is ultimately ruled by the slot in the pawl, not which way the stick is moving, that is how a Ford and a Dodge with the same case have different shift patterns.
Easy test, in park, grab the front output and try to turn it.
One of the pics it looks like the shift pads might be worn, you change all of them right?

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Old 09-29-2015, 07:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Sweet. We are getting somewhere. I was super confused by the shift pattern. Thank you for that info. I am super newbie when it comes to domestic vehicles.

Ok. The case before I changed the rear half because it was cracked from a leak, it said 241c on the back. I'm assuming they swapped my input to a Chevy case. Is there any way for me to confirm this? I used a 241v back half when I replaced it to fix the leak.

The shift pawl is the rooster thing inside the case correct? Perhaps I have the wrong one? Also, take a look at my range shift fork. It looks different from almost every other range fork I can find online for a 241dld. I found one, but it days it's for a 89-93 trans. I'm sorry for all the words. I'm just trying to figure this all out. Thank you for your time
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Old 09-29-2015, 07:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I forgot to add I have definitely confirmed my shift pattern by getting under the truck and spin the front output while shifting. It's 4hi-2hi-n-lo

I did not change all the pads. Just the ones on the range hub. Also I noticed some slight wear today on the range fork. How noticeable would a bend be in it? How much would matter? I wanna say it had a ever so slight bend, but I may just b3 convincing myself of that. I'll post pics tomorrow
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Old 09-30-2015, 11:45 PM   #14 (permalink)
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If you put a Chevy case on a dodge trans, it is clocked about straight down, and your driveshaft won't work out. As far as I can tell the big 3 back case halves are all pretty much the same, and they are the part the tag comes with.
I believe dodge has 2 possible range forks in the 241DLD
N is on the range hub
If the meat of the shift pad wears down, the synchro isn't held far enough in, and the lever starts to kick out under load. You might try to hold it in, and you have a pretty good handle, so I could see the fork bending as much as a pad thickness, then even new pads would not fix it, and once the gear noses are buggered, you will never be able to hold it in.
IMO that is your most likely scenario, but mismatched parts are always possible in a cheap beater.

Do you have the tcase shift linkage that is bolted to the side of the tranny?
While its apart, is there any sign the chain has been hitting the case? if so its past due for replacement.

Yes the Pawl is the comb which has bumps for the detent, a cam for the vac switch(do you have that?should.) or on other applications there are a couple kinds of electric switch/sender, and slots that synchronize the shift forks and define their pattern.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:47 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Thank you. There is definitely some wear on the very tips of the input and the range gear. Am I screwed? I noticed some slight wear on my range for also since posting this. I'll post a pic.

I tbink I cam see an ever so slight b3nd in my range fork. Ever so slight. But from what you say, it seems thats all it would take. Correct? Do you think o should spend the money and try a new range fork?

The inside of the case looks great. I can't see any wear anywhere. And the chain appears tight to me. But again I'm not familiar with these. The only spot in can find some wear is on the input teeth, the range gear teeth where it very first slides into the input. The shift range fork has a small groove. And my mode for has some marks. But I don't know if they are from operation.

I really wanna get this thing fixed so I can paint it and drive it. Right now it's sitting dead in the driveway. I really appreciate the information and time.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:50 AM   #16 (permalink)
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My transfer case linkage is bolted to the side of my trans. Yes. It is not hooked from that to the case tho. Thats a separate issue I was having.
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Old 10-05-2015, 09:57 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Old 10-05-2015, 11:03 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Fwiw my transfer case input also has the larger .940 input bearing. Doesn't this mean mine is the newer style case? I've read about the shift pattern changing later on and being bolted to the floor instead of the trans. My I put cover also had red slice on it when I first took it apart. Like it had been apart somewhat recently. Perhaps they blew the original, and found a later style case not realizing or caring that the shift pattern would be different?
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Old 10-05-2015, 06:35 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Thank you. There is definitely some wear on the very tips of the input and the range gear. Am I screwed? I noticed some slight wear on my range for also since posting this. I'll post a pic.
I think replacements are cheap

I tbink I cam see an ever so slight b3nd in my range fork. Ever so slight. But from what you say, it seems thats all it would take. Correct? Do you think o should spend the money and try a new range fork?
in this pic,
that looks like pretty serious contact wear to me. they might have subsequently replaced the pads. can you get a good square on it?


The inside of the case looks great. I can't see any wear anywhere. And the chain appears tight to me. But again I'm not familiar with these. The only spot in can find some wear is on the input teeth, the range gear teeth where it very first slides into the input. The shift range fork has a small groove. And my mode for has some marks. But I don't know if they are from operation.

I really wanna get this thing fixed so I can paint it and drive it. Right now it's sitting dead in the driveway. I really appreciate the information and time.
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My transfer case linkage is bolted to the side of my trans. Yes. It is not hooked from that to the case tho. Thats a separate issue I was having.
So you have that part from an appropriate early truck, and the last rod from either shifter will jack into the arm on the case the same.


Quote:
Originally Posted by 81NorCalYota View Post
Fwiw my transfer case input also has the larger .940 input bearing. Doesn't this mean mine is the newer style case? I've read about the shift pattern changing later on and being bolted to the floor instead of the trans. My I put cover also had red slice on it when I first took it apart. Like it had been apart somewhat recently. Perhaps they blew the original, and found a later style case not realizing or caring that the shift pattern would be different?
only makes a difference if you have to look at the numbers on the shifter really, but you could switch shifter caps.

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Old 10-05-2015, 07:02 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I'll put a square on it tomorrow and order one if it's off. They are 50 bucks. I can get a new input and lo range gear for 130 but do you think I need them? Pics of both on first post. What Do you think I should do? I'm not sure if they replaced the pads prior to me or not. The guy I got it from wad not mechanically inclued at all.
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Old 10-05-2015, 07:17 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I think there are 2 possibilities for the fork, especially given the unknowns of your part origin. I'd call Transfer Case Express, they've been pretty helpful to me, stock parts, and have a branch in Oakland.
Usually on the phone I've got the South Carolina office, they may be having food issues. if no answer.
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Old 10-06-2015, 01:30 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I called transfer case express. They said their tech was out to lunch. He never called back. I called quad4x4 and talked to their tech. I sent him a pic of my shift fork and he said he had never seen one like that before. I can't find another one online anywhere to match it. If you pull up a diagram online I can find it. But not a part number. Perhaps someone else is better at searching than me. II'd just buy another tcase but I can't find one. I'm going to post an ad in the classifieds now. But I'd really like to figure this out.
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Old 10-11-2015, 08:33 PM   #23 (permalink)
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I think I found the issue. This is not a case that came behind a dodge 2500. It's either a Chevy case, or a dodge 1500 dld case. They do exist. Thats about all I can think of.

I got a confirmed 241 dld that I pulled myself off a stock v10 2500 auto today. I had to swap the inputs so I got to see the inside. It's basically the same, but everything is bigger. And like mentioned previoisly, the shift pawl is also different.

It needed a fork as it had some wear and I'm just gonna replace it all while im.in there. But I think all will be good when I get it back together. The planetary gear cuts were ever so slightly different, but it went together and turns smoothly. So I'm gonna run it. Pics of the 2 different main shafts.

Thanks for the help and will report back after install with the results.
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Old 10-12-2015, 10:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
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I had the same problem on a Chevy Tahoe 1500, when I took the case apart I saw wear on the shift fork, so I swapped in a new one and threw on a rebuild kit and it fixed it right up. Probably not useful knowledge now I guess.
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Old 10-16-2015, 10:01 PM   #25 (permalink)
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Got it all back together with new fork and pads. Works perfect. Shifts how it should.

As far as the other case, best I can assume is it was,a combination of the fork, pads, input wear, and range hub wear, combined with not being designed for the torque of a cummins. I may never know for sure tho. Regardless, it is fixed. Thanks for the help.
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