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Old 12-16-2015, 06:58 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Big Box Porting

Has anyone ported one of the new big box steering gears for hydro assist? If not, what is PSC or whoever charging for this service?
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Old 12-16-2015, 09:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've had PSC do several of them. I think they normally charge about tree-fiddy. You can get the whole kit from them, cylinder and all.
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Old 12-17-2015, 11:37 AM   #3 (permalink)
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For a 2007 would it require a new steering shaft?

New pitman arm? New steering box brace Nut that goes into the pillow bearing?
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Old 12-18-2015, 06:25 AM   #4 (permalink)
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I've had PSC do several of them. I think they normally charge about tree-fiddy. You can get the whole kit from them, cylinder and all.
Thanks. I read one of your posts on DOR.com about the different steering boxes available to 3rd gens. I'm about to pull the trigger on a hydro assist setup. What setup lasts the longest before you have to rebuild the steering box in your experience? I'm running a 3" Thuren setup with Carli BJs, 08.5 tie rod and drag link, big steering box w/ brace and 37" tires.
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Old 12-18-2015, 11:22 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Mopar and Borgeson both sell a conversion box that bolts right up on the 3rd gens with the 3G steering shaft. The Mopar box requires their new pitman arm and TRE, the Borgeson box uses the stock pitman arm and TRE, so in the long run it's cheaper. Internally they are identical. Borgeson opens them up and makes sure they are good, and has a better warranty than the factory box. We've been selling them since they came out and I can only remember one that needed replaced, the customer hit a light pole at a gas station and twisted the splines on the sector shaft. Other than that, none of the 3rd gen boxes I've sold have had any issues as far as I know.

As far as hydro assist, I've had it on all of the Dodge boxes and really they all work the same. The cylinder takes the pressure off the box, so the box is basically just directing fluid. As long as the sector shaft is braced up, it should last for a very long time. Keep the fluid cool and clean and if you have any problems, it's probably a fluke. I had the first hydro assist setup (that I know of) on a 3rd gen back in 2004 and that truck is still running around with everything working fine. That was the first hydro setup PSC did for a 3rd gen.
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Old 12-18-2015, 06:04 PM   #6 (permalink)
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So, I have the Mopar upgraded box and it's sloppy with only 25k miles on it. Thats why I'm looking to build something a little more durable.
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Old 12-18-2015, 08:48 PM   #7 (permalink)
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None of them last very long if they aren't supported. Do you have a steering brace? I had slack in my steering box on the 2014 truck with less than 5,000 miles. The new trucks use an even bigger box. They have to be braced. If it's wearing out that fast with a brace, hydro assist should take the rest of the load off the box. But they can be made to last a long time without hydro assist. My 2005 has had a Borgeson box and brace on for 2 or 3 years and it's still tight. It had 37" tires the whole time until we recently put 41" tires on. The brace went on the same day as the box.
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Old 12-22-2015, 07:36 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I have the brace also. That's why I'm entertaining the hydro assist idea. I want something that will last a little while.
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Old 12-22-2015, 08:47 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Howe is redoing my GM box and pump now. They offer a lot of upgrades such as welded box fittings, upgraded torsion bar for better road feel. Will post pictures as soon as its back.

Make sure to swap out all hoses for higher temp rated for pressure and larger diameter for low pressure return to the box pump and res.



Quote:
The effort and T-bar columns give a good indication as to how much effort it will take to steer your car. The larger the T-bar diameter, the higher the effort to obtain power assist. The effort column refers to a laboratory test where hydraulic oil is circulated through the gear and a torque (in-lb) determined to create a specific amount of assist pressure. Even a 5 in-lb difference in effort is noticeable. Higher effort boxes are generally accepted as performance-oriented boxes.
Steering Box Upgrade - Car Craft Magazine

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Old 12-26-2015, 05:25 AM   #10 (permalink)
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Howe is redoing my GM box and pump now. They offer a lot of upgrades such as welded box fittings, upgraded torsion bar for better road feel. Will post pictures as soon as its back.
I'll give them a call after the holidays to see if they offer the same parts and services for the Dodge gear.

I wonder how different the internals are from a GM box???
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Old 12-26-2015, 12:46 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I'll give them a call after the holidays to see if they offer the same parts and services for the Dodge gear.

I wonder how different the internals are from a GM box???
They will be open mon - wed this week. They service every type of box out there. If you can talk with the owner Jeff. They are super busy with race season but was able to expidite my box since its my dd. Hoping to have it this week.

The internals aren't changing much. They did major overhall in '02. Just torsion bar. They can change the ratio of the box. I was really tired of the vagueness of my steering. Variable ratio (image below: taper sector gear top non variable below) are common to most trucks these days which speed up lock to lock when making a uturn or parallel parking.



Upgrade the pump as well.

Jeff also has an interesting approach to adding hydroboost unit in a remote location (below) separate from the master cylinder because a lot of t trucks shock towers conflict with them. He also sets up this type of system with separate pump that can be made redundant if the main pump fails.


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Old 01-16-2016, 09:27 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Following up...Picked up the box on wed...Going to be making a thread in the chevy section when I recover from installing this...here are some shots while
mocking up.



Here you can see where all the box ports are welded reducing multiple sources of leaks



Here is the hose diagram...



To reduce heat keep fitting bends under 90*. Avoid tube and fin coolers (loaded with 180*) which slow the fluid and could starve the pump and cause cavitation (Howe describes this as sipping a milk shake thru a straw). Low pressure feed lines typically are push lock with larger ID. The pressure small ID lines are field fix type lines. Howe recommends 300* temp rating and 1800 psi. Adherence to the temp rating is VERY important. My last setup all my hose were wasted because they were rated at 250* because I wanted black. Other tips discovered from trial and error are the braided hose run hotter due to the steel (wearing a coat to the desert) so minimize lengths as much as possible.

Pictured are a couple of examples of hose and fittings used.

PTFE braided are rated at 500* and I run this from the pump to the hydro boost back to the box. This type of hose Cannot be bent at all. If you hear a pop its wasted and you need to start over. Make sure its in a safe spot that is isolated from something grabbing on to it or crushing it.

The blue 300* aero quip low pressure "push lock" line has a guard around it that leads to the cooler in front of the radiator. There is a lot of stuff that rubs against is and if I take out a Syrian refugee or a tree hope it cheap ins at $1 a'

The black hose is a transmission line. Just wanted to show the Red Horse push locks as they are solid connectors with steel washer stop vs the eaton or XRP are rubber.



Hope this helps...
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Old 04-27-2016, 06:34 AM   #13 (permalink)
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This is a little late...

Thanks for the pics 49willys_mogon.

I decided to go with a ported Redhead box. The Howe stuff, while I'm sure it's durability and performance is impeccable, is super pricey. The folks at Redhead steered me towards the style steering box that originally came with the truck instead of the new box with the larger sector shaft. They said that they believed it would last longer because they had access to better internal parts for it vice the new style. As soon as I get my core return money back I'll be purchasing a ram from PSC.
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