Warning: Steering Failure on a dodgeoffroad brand Heim steering kit

[djgaston]

Originally Posted by The War Wagon

I'd heard that about that forum - just didn't know if you were aware of its existence.

I bought a couple of things off him in the past with no issues, but not his suspension parts. It's a shame you can't get better response out of him, and help for your issues. I wouldn't buy any of those parts, until I hear a whole lot BETTER response to those who've had problems.

Maybe don't believe everything you read online. His story is full of holes, as all of them are. You only ever hear one side and it's never 100% truthful. We're not perfect (I'm certainly not) but saying they can't get ahold of us is stupid. We're a phone call away, Monday through Friday 9:30 AM to at least 5:30 PM, usually until 8 PM. I have four people that answer phones all day long. If someone has a problem, we are here to help. I figured as long as you've been posting on the forum and talking to me that you would give me the benefit of the doubt, but this is a good example of what is wrong with forums.

And no, getting on the DOR forum won't help. I don't even log in to approve new registrations but once every 2 or 3 weeks. Call, email, or come by the shop. We're a hell of lot more available than most companies, especially in this industry. If we don't answer the phone it's only because all the lines are busy, it will go to voice mail and we call everyone back before leaving for the day. Crying on forums is just about the least beneficial thing anybody can do, I'm the only one who even gets on forums and I do that maybe twice a month on here and DOR. Those are the only forums I even go to. I got on here tonight to look at the Pit Bull tire thread to see if there were any updates, I ordered tires back in November and haven't gotten them. They have never emailed me back and have never returned any voice mails, I have only managed to actually get ahold of someone there two times in the last six months. Guess I better start a thread on that, it seems to be the popular thing to do.

The problem with the internet is that everybody has a microphone but not everybody should have one. There is no accountability in anything that is posted. A person can post a bunch of untrue stuff and unless they are proven wrong, most people seem to believe it. I used to destroy the BS stories on cummins forum until the mods just banned me because I wouldn't pay them $400/month to defend myself from slanderous posts like this one.
Pirate has been essentially the one exception to bullshit stories being taken as gospel. If I make a mistake I'll own up to it, I have to do that several times a week and I'm used to it. We ship a ton of stuff out, mistakes happen. But I can say with total certainty that this is not a problem with DOR steering and that we followed the same policy that we follow with everyone else, which is based on Amazon.com's customer service policies. Most customers understand that parts can break and are thankful that we have multiple options for resolving their issues with any of our manufactured products. Sometimes we have a hot head like Chris Gage. It's part of being in business and selling millions of dollars worth of merchandise all over the world. Gotta take the good with the bad. I'm very thankful for all of the customers we have had over the last 7 years who have helped build the business into what it is. There are far more happy customers than unhappy, otherwise we wouldn't be here and certainly not at the level we are at.

[djgaston]

Originally Posted by Diesel Junkie

The other popular conversion is to go to 4th gen 2014 and up. Links are much bigger, T style instead of Y and the tie rod ends are bigger. I believe its all bolt in.

You can't run 5th gen (2014+) steering on 4th gen trucks. The 5th gens have factory crossover with totally different knuckles. 3rd and 4th gen (2003-2012) can run the Mopar 4th gen 08.5 T style steering and that's a bolt in setup. Might want to check the recalls on those before spending the money. You have to set the pitman arm TRE up correctly or it will shear. Oh, wait.

But seriously, look at 2014 and up steering. Totally different. And you can't swap knuckles, they don't use the same size ball joints. I tried that three years ago.

Your best option is to either buy a replacement tapered bolt or drill the pitman arm and run a 3/4" bolt. If you call and apologize to Chris (the guy you yelled at today) then I'll waive the shipping charge for the new tapered bolt. Deal expires tomorrow at 5 PM CST.

[Beat95YJ]

Looking at the rust line on the adapter, it was poorly machined or dimensioned. Look for a stud that is a strong heat treated material or use a gr 8 bolt. Personally I'd get synergy and not worry about busloads of nuns.

If the vendor won't give you a brand, and only says a part is "better" it's junk.

[Diesel Junkie]

Originally Posted by Diesel Junkie

Hopefully this post will do 2 things:
1. Prevent someone from getting killed.
2. Get Danny to respond, get some integrity, and be accountable.

Right on Danny,
You have taken the first step on goal #2.

[Diesel Junkie]

Originally Posted by djgaston

Maybe don't believe everything you read online. His story is full of holes, as all of them are. You only ever hear one side and it's never 100% truthful.

Danny,

Couldn't have said it better myself.

I lost count after 12 things I would completely disagree with in your comments. As much as I want to defend each and every one them, whats the point?
I will let the general public make their own assessment on what to believe.

Do me a favor, please reflect on why you think this post(and many others like it) is here on a public forum.

[The War Wagon]

Originally Posted by djgaston

Maybe don't believe everything you read online. His story is full of holes, as all of them are. You only ever hear one side and it's never 100% truthful. We're not perfect (I'm certainly not) but saying they can't get ahold of us is stupid. We're a phone call away, Monday through Friday 9:30 AM to at least 5:30 PM, usually until 8 PM. I have four people that answer phones all day long. If someone has a problem, we are here to help. I figured as long as you've been posting on the forum and talking to me that you would give me the benefit of the doubt, but this is a good example of what is wrong with forums.

Hey Danny - thanks for weighing in. I was hoping you would, and that this gets squared away.

[DirtyComanche]

It doesn't seem like a surprising failure to me. Single shear taper adapter with a long standoff, what could go wrong? I see coarse threads and nylocks, which is always a red flag.

Too bad OP didn't take a picture of the crack faces.

Is that a wear mark on the frame from it hitting in the third pic?

I'm absolutely not a fan of drilling the taper out and installing a bolt for a single shear application, asking for even more trouble IMHO, unless there was a machining error that left a significant stress riser on the taper adapter.

Either way, I'd say this is a combination of installation error, and the limitations of the product.

[Rhinopkc]

Originally Posted by djgaston

Maybe don't believe everything you read online.

Including what you type?

Originally Posted by djgaston

We're a hell of lot more available than most companies, especially in this industry.

I am just going to cut you some slack here, and figure that you don't call anyone else in the industry, because this is not true.

Originally Posted by djgaston

Crying on forums is just about the least beneficial thing anybody can do, I'm the only one who even gets on forums and I do that maybe twice a month on here and DOR.

Yet, you always seem to find your way to a thread AFTER one of your customers gets so fed up they explode on a forum. The person crying is you, every time. Crying that you are a victim of circumstance, or that the customer is mistreating you, or whatever.

Originally Posted by djgaston

The problem with the internet is that everybody has a microphone but not everybody should have one. There is no accountability in anything that is posted. A person can post a bunch of untrue stuff and unless they are proven wrong, most people seem to believe it.

I don't know why you're complaining about this phenomenon, it's been the biggest boon to your sales.

Originally Posted by djgaston

I used to destroy the BS stories on cummins forum until the mods just banned me because I wouldn't pay them $400/month to defend myself from slanderous posts like this one.

Most people that advertise and interact on forums, don't spend any time "defending" themselves. Maybe you should look inward on that issue.

Originally Posted by djgaston

If I make a mistake I'll own up to it, I have to do that several times a week and I'm used to it. We ship a ton of stuff out, mistakes happen.

Mistakes do happen, we all make them. If attacking a customer is your idea of owning up to a mistake, that's a new theory on customer service I'm not familiar with.

Originally Posted by djgaston

But I can say with total certainty that this is not a problem with DOR steering and that we followed the same policy that we follow with everyone else, which is based on Amazon.com's customer service policies.

This should read "This is not the only problem with DOR steering.", you almost got the statement right. If your policies are the same as Amazon's, this must be a recent change. I have met people that gave up on trying to get their money back, or get an exchange from you, and have just bought new parts, because your communication is great during the selling and buying phases, but seems to fall sharply after that.

Originally Posted by djgaston

Most customers understand that parts can break and are thankful that we have multiple options for resolving their issues with any of our manufactured products. Sometimes we have a hot head like Chris Gage.

Again, attacking the customer? Really?

I will close by saying that I am sorry for laying it on a little heavy, but this thread just came to my attention on the heels of having a guy show up with just about everything DOR sells on his truck, and it was like a rolling shit show. I felt extremely sorry for the guy, but what do you do when the guy has already dumped multiple thousands of dollars on stuff, waited 3x as long as promised, and is stilll not where he thought he would be? I could have done a better job for half the money if he hadn't done business with DOR.

[Diesel Junkie]

BLAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!

Rhinopkc,
That was pure gold!
Love it.
Thanks,

My Mopar steering kit showed up today...

I would offer to sell the DOR kit coming off, but I have a conscience. Its going in the scrap bin.

[TrailTamer XJ]

Originally Posted by djgaston

We've sold 12 of them since the steering came out in 2013, some were multiple bolts to the same person. We sell them as a replacement part on the site for a reason.

We sell too many of these to have a problem with all of them.

Red Flag right there.

[Diesel Junkie]

Finally got the steering off on Saturday.
The passenger side taper to heim adapter was also slightly bent.

[Mattafact]

Glad I found this. I was close to buying a bunch of their stuff for my new to me 3rd gen. Guess it's back to Thuren and ICON.

[dirtracer90]

Ya it's threads like these, and responses like above from DOR that keep my Business with Carli and Thuren.

And the fact that I have yet to get an email response to questions from DOR! When other companies can do same day..

[mudskipper4x4]

I've been on the fence about ordering one of DOR no-drill steering kits like this for my 2010. I've had it all in the online cart more than once but just didn't pull the trigger.

I had concerns about the long taper bolt and I do not want to drill out the pitman arm and knuckles due to having too much slop in them for a straight bolt that would get worse over time. I even contemplated welding on the pitman arm and knuckles to make the kit double shear, but in reality I just don't have that kind of time in my life right now. Maybe I'm over thinking it but I don't want to have broken or sloppy steering from a kit that costs $700-1000.

The factory steering leaves a bit to be desired, but I've made it 185k miles on the factory style steering with it being replaced once thus far. I guess I'll just replace it again when it comes time and not worry about other issues with running heims/tapered bolts on a truck I daily drive 100+ miles a day.

Maybe I'll be missing out, maybe I won't.

Thanks for posting Diesel Junkie.

[Diesel Junkie]

Originally Posted by mudskipper4x4

I've been on the fence about ordering one of DOR no-drill steering kits like this for my 2010. I've had it all in the online cart more than once but just didn't pull the trigger.

I had concerns about the long taper bolt and I do not want to drill out the pitman arm and knuckles due to having too much slop in them for a straight bolt that would get worse over time. I even contemplated welding on the pitman arm and knuckles to make the kit double shear, but in reality I just don't have that kind of time in my life right now. Maybe I'm over thinking it but I don't want to have broken or sloppy steering from a kit that costs $700-1000.

The factory steering leaves a bit to be desired, but I've made it 185k miles on the factory style steering with it being replaced once thus far. I guess I'll just replace it again when it comes time and not worry about other issues with running heims/tapered bolts on a truck I daily drive 100+ miles a day.

Maybe I'll be missing out, maybe I won't.

Thanks for posting Diesel Junkie.

Mopar makes an upgrade kit for the 3rd gen trucks. T Style, and ~1.5" diameter bars. Thats what I got. For me, works perfect. Solves all the problems with the stock steering. I would also say the truck drives straighter than it ever has, with either the original or DOR steering. I now suspect the tapered adapters on the DOR were actually flexing due to the height.

I think there are a few part numbers out there, but I got 52122362AL on Amazon. A new pitman arm is also recommended. Post back if you have any trouble finding it.

Synergy also makes a good looking kit.

[DirtyComanche]

Originally Posted by Diesel Junkie

Finally got the steering off on Saturday.
The passenger side taper to heim adapter was also slightly bent.

Think you could get a picture of that? Would love to see it.

[Diesel Junkie]

Originally Posted by DirtyComanche

Think you could get a picture of that? Would love to see it.

As I backed off the nut on the taper side of the adapter, the taper loosened, so the whole adapter spun on the knuckle taper interface. As it spun, the other end wobbled sided to side.... that was my first indication that it was bent slightly.

Yes, the taper self released... that is a problem as well. TRE tapers are supposed to be self holding.... Yes it was torqued to the DOR spec, and re-torqued 2x after hundreds of miles.

The bend is not really noticeable in a still photo. Otherwise I would have posted it.

I might be able to roll it on a flat surface and get a video. I will try to get on that. It is still sitting in my yard.

[D45]

I ran a steering kit from Bullet Proof Steering on my old truck for years, never broke anything on the steering

I also upgraded and ran F911 bolts at the knuckles and the pitman

[total newb]

Originally Posted by Diesel Junkie

As I backed off the nut on the taper side of the adapter, the taper loosened, so the whole adapter spun on the knuckle taper interface. As it spun, the other end wobbled sided to side.... that was my first indication that it was bent slightly.

Yes, the taper self released... that is a problem as well. TRE tapers are supposed to be self holding.... Yes it was torqued to the DOR spec, and re-torqued 2x after hundreds of miles.

The bend is not really noticeable in a still photo. Otherwise I would have posted it.

I might be able to roll it on a flat surface and get a video. I will try to get on that. It is still sitting in my yard.

So was it stood up to tall like the pitman arm bolt or was the larger surface of the safety was touching the knuckle face?

And once again, singe shear hiem setup sucks for onroad heavy trucks, just in case you forgot why i said that firat off in the thread.

[Diesel Junkie]

Originally Posted by total newb

So was it stood up to tall like the pitman arm bolt or was the larger surface of the safety was touching the knuckle face?

And once again, singe shear hiem setup sucks for onroad heavy trucks, just in case you forgot why i said that firat off in the thread.

The distance from the center of the heim ball to the mounting surface on the knuckle arm is still considerably longer than a tie rod end. That and un-hardened 4140 is not especially strong, when compared to something like grade 8. (I dont know what TRE balls are usually made of, but assuming they are hardened at least for improved wear).

Might have worked if the shank was actually bigger(I thought they were 7/8") but they are not any bigger than the stock TRE.

[total newb]

Not what i asked you.

[Diesel Junkie]

Originally Posted by total newb

Not what i asked you.

The safety washer is machined into the adapter on the knuckle side. There's a gap between the knuckle face and that "safety washer" flange. About 1/4". If there was no gap, the taper would not fit tight.

[total newb]

Ok.

Like i said at the beging, that flange not touching is a huge reduction in stregth.

Sound like home boy needs to change his stud design.

[Diesel Junkie]

Originally Posted by total newb

Ok.

Like i said at the beging, that flange not touching is a huge reduction in stregth.

Sound like home boy needs to change his stud design.

Absolutely, 100%, Yes.