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Old 11-20-2010, 08:13 PM   #151 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Cymbilant View Post
You know I have been thinking alot about this conversion, and ive got questions. Why do we have to use ford knuckles, if we can just drill out our existing knuckles to accept the ford spindles. Or better yet doesnt dodge have spindles we can bolt on or even drill if required. Actually isnt a dana 60 spindle the same regardless of brand outside of the mounting bolt patterns. If that is the case cant we use any hub from any dana 60 to mount to the spindle? And if all that is true why do we have to swap out the stub shafts if we already have a dana 60 axel. Im just trying to wrap my head around this.

For starters there are 2 types of Dana 60s-there are the older version which are kingpins made for all three manufacturers these knuckles won't work on your dodge. Then there is the balljoint dana 60s which were produced for dodge starting in 94 and ford starting in I believe 92. All the dodge 60s were balljoints with unit bearings while the fords from 92-97 were balljoints with old school spindles and wheel bearings. The fords also have dual piston brake calipers which are a great upgrade to the dodge single piston caliper but you have to use the ford knuckle to bolt on these brakes. Lastly the ford utilizes the conventional locking hub as opposed to CAD axle disconnect dodge uses.
So you get three nice upgrades if you swap out to the ford stuff. If you keep the dodge knuckle you have to redrill the ford kingpin spindle to match the four bolt unit bearing pattern of the dodge knuckle. Then you use the ford stub axle from a ford dana 60 king pin or balljoint (you can't use your dodge stub because it is completely different because of the unit bearing). The wheel hub and locking hub can be from any ford 60 kingpin, balljoint or TTB50. You will retain the dodge single piston calipers. As far as rotors go some say you can use the ford 60 or TTB50 rotors with the dodge caliper, I don't think this is a good idea because the ford rotors are only 1.25" thick as opposed to the dodges which are 1.5" thick. So if you run the pads all the way down the piston in the caliper gets very close to coming out of the caliper. I think trying an 02 gmc 2500 4wd front rotor which looks like it will work if installled on the back side of the wheel hub, you will have to turn down the back side of the ford hub to fit the GM rotor. So this route requires a whole lot of intermixing and when you measure the offset of the dodge unit bearing setup from face of knuckle to centerline of axle u joint and compare that same measurement to the finished ford spindle swap using the dodge knuckles the axle u joint center line is around .100" further outboard so technically the axle u joint is not on the same centerline as the balljoints are.

So if you swap the ford stuff, knuckles out, it is a factory setup that you know is going to be right, you get conventional wheel bearings, dual piston brakes and locking hubs. If you redrill ford spindles to fit the dodge knuckles you get a mismatched setup that isn't quite perfect and don't get the dual piston brake upgrade.

I did the whole swap utilizing a 97 ford housing. I am still intrigued with redrilling the ford spindles and am trying different combinations on the left over ford housing. Just to see if it can really be done cheaply with as many TTB 50 parts as possible. I also have a set of aftermarket solid axle balljoint knuckles with their high steer arms which combined with chevy spindles/stubs/wheel hubs and locking hubs is another option however not the cheapest route.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:41 PM   #152 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Cymbilant View Post
Yes it was an F250. prolly not gonna work:-(
HD D44 TTB and D50 TTB and D60 kuckles measure the same at teh "C", but I think the D50 and D60 use different balljoints. THe D50 and D60 knuckles are interchangable, but I'm not 100% certain about the solid D50 stuff (newer Ford, metric bolt patterns).

I would guess that you can press D60/D50 TTB balljoints into the HD D44 TTB knuckles and they'll work.
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Old 11-20-2010, 09:41 PM   #153 (permalink)
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The only reason I know to retain the Dodge knuckle is to get the higher steer arm. However, there was a hi-steer arm made for the BJ Ford D60 knuckle. Did a quick search.

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/showthread.php?t=833960

EDIT: just went to the end of the thread, not sure this ever went into production, but there are some good photos on the 1st page. You can mill the Ford knuckle down to accept a hi-steer arm as seen in the pics.
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Old 11-20-2010, 10:31 PM   #154 (permalink)
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If you keep the dodge knuckle you have to redrill the ford kingpin spindle to match the four bolt unit bearing pattern of the dodge knuckle....

... and when you measure the offset of the dodge unit bearing setup from face of knuckle to centerline of axle u joint and compare that same measurement to the finished ford spindle swap using the dodge knuckles the axle u joint center line is around .100" further outboard so technically the axle u joint is not on the same centerline as the balljoints are.

... Just to see if it can really be done cheaply with as many TTB 50 parts as possible. I also have a set of aftermarket solid axle balljoint knuckles with their high steer arms which combined with chevy spindles/stubs/wheel hubs and locking hubs is another option however not the cheapest route.
1. Ford kingpin and balljoint spindle are the same. You can use either. I will argue you can use a D50 spindle too because the Dodge BJ knuckle does not use a caliper bracket.

2. The 0.100" offset is irrelevant. The Ford BJ60 stub doesn't use a snap ring (or even have the groove), so the shaft is going to rest inline with the steering axis.

3. The TTB50 rotor doesn't work. A friend and I went down this path and the offset is wrong. We also tried a 78-87 K30 rotor. What did the job was a 78-79 F250/350 rotor.
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Old 11-22-2010, 12:56 PM   #155 (permalink)
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The main reason to swap knuckles as far as I'm concerned is the brake upgrade. You're stuck with the single pot dodge caliper with its cast-in mount.

Thought:
could the ford caliper mount be sandwiched in as it was stock on at least the older ford knuckles and the dodge stuff just cut off the knuckle, and then run the ford dual piston setup?
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Old 11-22-2010, 03:20 PM   #156 (permalink)
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Thought:
could the ford caliper mount be sandwiched in as it was stock on at least the older ford knuckles and the dodge stuff just cut off the knuckle, and then run the ford dual piston setup?
That will move the spindle out which would probably make the stub shaft too far outboard and probably too short (also, it widens the track width to whatever the thickness of the caliper bracket is per side). You might be able to run a GM or Dodge stub shaft to make up the difference, and run spacers inboard of the spindle to keep the u-joint centered under the ball joints.
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Old 11-25-2010, 06:58 PM   #157 (permalink)
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For the people who have done this conversion, how much did it run you for everything? I need new ball joints anyways so that is irrelevant for me but I am assuming new rotors, calipers and bearings would be needed...? Any down-sides to this aside from the bump-steer? I would love to pick up some mpg especially with diesel $$ climbing.

Also, I know that any year between 92-97 will work, any specific year that may be better or are they all identical?
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Old 11-26-2010, 12:09 PM   #158 (permalink)
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what is the big difference with the 2003 and up AAM axle, what makes that axle impossible to do your own junk yard swap?

I was thinking of actually running the inner knuckle out form a dana 60 onto my AAM axle, seems like the only way

what about the dana 50 solid axle, isnt that similar to 60 outers?
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Old 11-26-2010, 01:48 PM   #159 (permalink)
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well im no xpert or anything but if you have an AAM axel there is no reason why you couldnt drop it under your truck. But im bettin that they dont have manual lockouts either. although they have dual piston calipers and 13 1/2" inch rotors that slide on. And if your gonna go from the inner c's then your not limited to any axel. But the whole idea of this thread is el-Cheapo conversions. The d50 has diff caster angle on the knuckles and stub shaft is to short. Everything from hubs, and lockouts will fit is my under standing. I think the spindles will work too but I would have to go back and read more to be sure.
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Old 11-27-2010, 07:42 PM   #160 (permalink)
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The AAM knuckles and the later Dodge D60s (01-02?) have a different inner C. The balljoint mounts in the C instead of the knuckle.

Yeah, the solid-axle D50 knuckle are the same as the D60 ones (F250/350 anyways).
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Old 11-29-2010, 02:40 PM   #161 (permalink)
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Has anyone done this swap on a truck with a small lift and aftermarket rims?
I really want to lose the crappy dodge unit hubs and brakes, but Im worried about wheel rub. Im limited to 33's right now due to backspace.
how sure are we that the mounting surfaces on the hubs are 3/4" further outboard on each side? This would be the difference between a good fit and a 1800$ mistake if I decide to get rims with a different backspace in preparation for the swap.
Im also a bit worried about the lower tie rod mounts on the knuckles. Looks like you need a longer drag link to make that work (?)
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Old 12-06-2010, 05:44 AM   #162 (permalink)
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damn. I spent some money on Spyntech hubs. Wish I came across this thread a year ago!
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Old 12-07-2010, 12:06 PM   #163 (permalink)
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I have a 1995 1500 with the dana44 is there any ford trucks that had a D44 with lock out hubs and 5 lug wheels that I can swap the kunckles into my truck. What year truck do I need to get the parts off. Any help would great. Thanks
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Old 12-09-2010, 02:06 PM   #164 (permalink)
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Old 12-09-2010, 03:13 PM   #165 (permalink)
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Bump what? I don't understand what you are asking. Are you wanting to switch to 5 lug or to 8 lug or do you want to switch to D44 Ford knuckles? This is a D60 thread so I don't think many people have done a D44 conversion in this thread. I would assume it's possible...
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Old 12-09-2010, 07:19 PM   #166 (permalink)
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Bump what? I don't understand what you are asking. Are you wanting to switch to 5 lug or to 8 lug or do you want to switch to D44 Ford knuckles? This is a D60 thread so I don't think many people have done a D44 conversion in this thread. I would assume it's possible...
I am just wanting to get lock out hubs and get ride of the stock barring unit. I also want to keep my 5 lug wheels.
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Old 12-10-2010, 09:05 AM   #167 (permalink)
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i understand that this is a thread on how to do it cheaply, but that is just not possible with a 3rd gen dodge. My 2004 2500 is going to cost a min of $1400 using Ballistic hubs and shitty oem parts and more like $1800 if I just buy a complete kit.

Im now thinking its cheaper for me just to buy a HP60 and put it under there, I can find them for less than $1k. I can buy a dodge bracket kit and attach it to the ford axle

maybe sell my dodge front end for a few bucks

so if i do this, what year did ford go metric lug pattern (99?)
what is the WMS on a Ford compared to a dodge?

I realize the dodge has better brakes, but i just need to get this done. I refuse to buy unit bearings.




on a side note: my 04 gets the death wobble bad, no lift, stock tires (actually goes away with 35" tires) is this mostly because of worn BJs, which feel okay to me, or worn unit bearings, im pretty sure i was even getting the wobble when all this shit was still new, so im lost
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Old 12-11-2010, 01:33 PM   #168 (permalink)
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HOLY CRAP! Way to muddy up an awesome thread guys. I'm usually the last guy to pull this but fawking search! Not only did you guys not search but you fucked it up for the people who do search. Great tech here hopefully some one can clean it up and maybe lock it?
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:00 PM   #169 (permalink)
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HOLY CRAP! Way to muddy up an awesome thread guys. I'm usually the last guy to pull this but fawking search! Not only did you guys not search but you fucked it up for the people who do search. Great tech here hopefully some one can clean it up and maybe lock it?
If you are talking to me I did search and I am not the only person who posted in this thread about doing this on a 1500.
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Old 12-11-2010, 02:40 PM   #170 (permalink)
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I am talking about you and every one else who posted about something besides DODGE dana 60 and FORD Dana parts compatibility. Even the people who brought up the dana 50 question every page. Read the title of the thread, now read the contents of the thread... still think your thoughts belong in said thread ? Pirate is a searchable database don't leave bullshit in every thread you visit. Add usefull info or none at all. Have a question, search. Repeat, repeat once more. Then and only then post a new thread asking your specific groundbreaking never been thought of before dana 44 question or whatever question you may be pondering. This is how to enjoy this forum. Any further questions will be answered with the words : bowl dicks choke blender and yourself.
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Old 12-11-2010, 05:24 PM   #171 (permalink)
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I dont know why out of all the people I have talked to and pmed you are the only one that has been a dick.
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Old 12-11-2010, 06:26 PM   #172 (permalink)
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I don't know either. Glad I could be your first, stick around and I wont be your last, welcome to pirate. I outlined simple etiquette. It's all perception I think your the dick for asking your dana 44 question in 79fordgirls' tech write up thread titled "Dodge ram2500 4x4 Dana 60 hub removal and conversion to ford knuckles". If you think I'm a dick your in for a treat.
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Old 12-15-2010, 11:56 AM   #173 (permalink)
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Turning the hubs

OK this is a question for everyone that has done this conversion. I read on some other forums that if you use the Ford D50 hubs the stock Dodge rims won't fit, the center hole is too small. If any of you had to do this can you tell me what you had them turned down to? Also if anyone has a set of Ford D60 stub shafts 30 spline and lock outs I'm looking for some.

Thanks
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Old 12-17-2010, 02:20 PM   #174 (permalink)
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dont know wtf is wrong, but when i bolt the spindle down onto the knuckle, the axle shafts will not turn. they are sandwiched between the housing and the spindle.
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Old 12-17-2010, 03:51 PM   #175 (permalink)
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You are using Ford knuckles? Which style spindle are you using? If you have the king pin spindle you have to use the right spindle seal/slinger set up. Same for the balljoint/D50 spindle, you have to use the correct seal/slinger set up. You might have stacked too much stuff in there or the wrong stuff. We have run both style spindles with success, no binding.

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