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Old 03-09-2011, 09:22 AM   #226 (permalink)
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Interesting that a new hood has the pattern already on it and was painted before the fixtures were added. So much for them not having a pattern until being installed on a truck. Perhaps the A3s are done differently or maybe my source on the pattern being done after final assembly was wrong? Something to ponder...
I'm sure you were right about the cab being remanufactured, but this hood has to be brand new because it doesn't even have hood hinges drilled.
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Old 03-09-2011, 11:20 AM   #227 (permalink)
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So, you still gonna try and install that fiberglass hood?

Personally, i think it should be let go and stick with stock. a cut down like that would be a lot of work, likely will never look as good and you would only save 3# anyway.
yeah it is stronger, but how weak is the old one?

Either way, i am Loving your project.
and my wife hates it. lol
(I keep looking at old army trucks on the computer at the auctions near here.
She just Knows i am coming home with one someday. *grin*)
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Old 03-09-2011, 12:32 PM   #228 (permalink)
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Your butt welds will be just fine. When I was in the shop the only time we put a flange on something was whe we glued panels on.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:54 PM   #229 (permalink)
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So, you still gonna try and install that fiberglass hood?

Personally, i think it should be let go and stick with stock. a cut down like that would be a lot of work, likely will never look as good and you would only save 3# anyway.
yeah it is stronger, but how weak is the old
The hood is NOT getting cut down the middle, it's only getting trimmed down to the right length. Making the fenders and grill fit is easier than it sounds. You'd have to see how it all goes together to understand, and I can't show you because my truck is still in pieces. But trust me. No big deal.
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Old 03-09-2011, 02:59 PM   #230 (permalink)
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Your butt welds will be just fine. When I was in the shop the only time we put a flange on something was whe we glued panels on.
You think so? I have done stuff like this before, but don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to bodywork. Just making it up as I go, hoping it holds together.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:14 PM   #231 (permalink)
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Made a new shifter. It's much longer, and is positioned closer to the steering wheel. Wanted to top it with a pineapple grenade, but the lemon was a lot more comfortable.



Lol, got a lot of folks around there lookin to steal a deuce, do ya? Love the build!
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:27 PM   #232 (permalink)
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Lol, got a lot of folks around there lookin to steal a deuce, do ya? Love the build!
Gotta think dude, that truck probably does not have an ignition key. Most of them you flip a switch to on, and push a button. Sometimes you have to mess with a hand choke, but thats about it. Some older semi trucks you just insert the key and turn it, then push a button to start. You can easily break into the truck, pop the keyed ignition switch out, cross some wires, push the button, and voila! You've got a running semi at your disposal.
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Old 03-09-2011, 08:52 PM   #233 (permalink)
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You think so? I have done stuff like this before, but don't really know what I'm doing when it comes to bodywork. Just making it up as I go, hoping it holds together.
First, I would like to say, "Awesome!"

Second, as an autobody tech, I would recommend something like the flanging tool in the future, or to create a joint with another thin strip of metal. Basically butt the two parts together, then weld the reinforcing strip over the top (or bottom), bridging the seam. It makes it much stronger. We do this when splicing in a new sheet metal section like a quarter panel, and call it "sleeving". Ideally, you weld the sleeve on by punching or drilling 1/4" holes a few inches apart down the whole length of the weld.

EDIT: LOL, it would figure that my first ever post on Pirate would be for autobody advice...

Last edited by mobius; 03-09-2011 at 08:53 PM.
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Old 03-09-2011, 09:47 PM   #234 (permalink)
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First, I would like to say, "Awesome!"

Second, as an autobody tech, I would recommend something like the flanging tool in the future, or to create a joint with another thin strip of metal. Basically butt the two parts together, then weld the reinforcing strip over the top (or bottom), bridging the seam. It makes it much stronger. We do this when splicing in a new sheet metal section like a quarter panel, and call it "sleeving". Ideally, you weld the sleeve on by punching or drilling 1/4" holes a few inches apart down the whole length of the weld.

EDIT: LOL, it would figure that my first ever post on Pirate would be for autobody advice...
think about it...umless you use resistance welding what does the flange do? If you run a bead accros the top of the flange it is basically the same as abutt weld. if you put spots through the holes you make with the tool there is way less weld and then you have problems. You will be fine
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Old 03-10-2011, 12:16 PM   #235 (permalink)
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There are going to be several selector valves in the system, that will need to do things like:

1) switch between tanks

2) return fuel to the tank it came from

3) redirect fuel from the clean tank to flush out the slut tank's lines & filters

4) bypass the FBO filter when running gasoline in the slut tank

5) run in closed-loop to filter / polish fuel

I'd like to set it up so that when I select a tank using valve #1, valve #2 would also be switched over so that fuel is coming from, and being returned to, the same tank. I'm sure I could do this with some type of simple mechanical linkage, or two switches, but it would be ideal if I could find one valve that would operate two circuits at the same time. What would be the best way to handle the electrical side of things? Should I just use manual switches to turn fuel pumps on/off, or should I tie them into the selector valves in the fluid circuit somehow?

hammer suggested 5-ton selector valves and I thought those were exactly what I was looking for. But I'm having second thoughts as I'm starting to make line drawings to figure out how to plumb everything. When feeding the engine from the diesel tank, I'll want to return the fuel to the diesel tank - and when I'm feeding the engine from the slut tank, I'll want to return the fuel to the slut tank. But when I'm purging the system (running diesel from the diesel tank through the slut tank's lines and filters), I'll want to return that fuel to the slut tank. So I think I'm going to have to use two separate control valves. That is, unless there's a three-position valve that would allow me to:

1) pull from diesel tank -> return to diesel tank

2) pull from slut tank -> return to slut tank

3) pull from diesel tank -> return to slut tank

Also thinking that position 3) would also allow me to transfer fuel from the diesel tank to the slut tank without having to install another fuel pump. This might be useful if I ever need to thin any of the alternative fuels in the slut tank.
look at the factory fuel tank selector valves from the dual tanked F-series trucks in the early 90's they switch the return to the same tank as the source. I'm thinking specifically of the '94-97 powerstrokes but the earlier IDI trucks would have the same valve also, you'd have to research fuels compatibility though many are running B100 and WVO with no problems and wmo blends, you would need to evaluate it for gasoline. Then you would only need a 3 way valve to provide pulling from the diesel and returning to the slut. Be aware that this configuration (pulling from one and dumping to the other) has the potential to quickly overfill the return tank.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:07 PM   #236 (permalink)
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Lol, got a lot of folks around there lookin to steal a deuce, do ya? Love the build!
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Originally Posted by redpitbull44 View Post
Gotta think dude, that truck probably does not have an ignition key. Most of them you flip a switch to on, and push a button. Sometimes you have to mess with a hand choke, but thats about it. Some older semi trucks you just insert the key and turn it, then push a button to start. You can easily break into the truck, pop the keyed ignition switch out, cross some wires, push the button, and voila! You've got a running semi at your disposal.
Exactly right. No keys. Came with the chain and padlock instead. Going to be adding a keyed ignition switch, locking door handles, and a bunch of other security-related stuff.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:13 PM   #237 (permalink)
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...as an autobody tech, I would recommend something like the flanging tool in the future, or to create a joint with another thin strip of metal. Basically butt the two parts together, then weld the reinforcing strip over the top (or bottom), bridging the seam. It makes it much stronger. We do this when splicing in a new sheet metal section like a quarter panel, and call it "sleeving". Ideally, you weld the sleeve on by punching or drilling 1/4" holes a few inches apart down the whole length of the weld.
Thanks for the input. I can see how this might be advantageous in a lot of situations, especially when repairing a body panel that you can't access from the backside. But the way I've stitched these panels together, I don't think there's much chance they're coming apart. Not saying that I've done such a great job, there's just a lot of weld surface area. You really think it'll be a problem?
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You will be fine
I'm kinda thinking so too. Like I said before, it doesn't even really matter in this application because of how I'm planning on reinforcing the roof, but I'm still interested in doing things well. Would not have guessed that butt-welding the panels back together might ever be an issue.
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Old 03-10-2011, 01:14 PM   #238 (permalink)
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look at the factory fuel tank selector valves from the dual tanked F-series trucks in the early 90's they switch the return to the same tank as the source. I'm thinking specifically of the '94-97 powerstrokes but the earlier IDI trucks would have the same valve also, you'd have to research fuels compatibility though many are running B100 and WVO with no problems and wmo blends, you would need to evaluate it for gasoline. Then you would only need a 3 way valve to provide pulling from the diesel and returning to the slut. Be aware that this configuration (pulling from one and dumping to the other) has the potential to quickly overfill the return tank.
Thanks for the suggestion. I've made a note about that.
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:25 PM   #239 (permalink)
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Simply AWESOME!! Very cool thread/build. Wanna sell it?
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Old 03-10-2011, 02:35 PM   #240 (permalink)
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Sure, everything's for sale. haha.
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Old 03-10-2011, 03:36 PM   #241 (permalink)
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First, I would like to say, "Awesome!"

Second, as an autobody tech, I would recommend something like the flanging tool in the future, or to create a joint with another thin strip of metal. Basically butt the two parts together, then weld the reinforcing strip over the top (or bottom), bridging the seam. It makes it much stronger. We do this when splicing in a new sheet metal section like a quarter panel, and call it "sleeving". Ideally, you weld the sleeve on by punching or drilling 1/4" holes a few inches apart down the whole length of the weld.

EDIT: LOL, it would figure that my first ever post on Pirate would be for autobody advice...
I'm not an autobody guy (just a shade tree body guy), and always wondered about those flangers. The way I see it (right, wrong, indifferent), is that they make it easier to align two panels and take out the issue of getting a consistent weld gap. Fitup can be much less precise! They also allow you to spot/stitch weld the new panel to the old, instead of having to fully weld the seam. Heck, can't you use adhesive to make repairs with panels like that? Maybe I'm wrong?

I replaced some quarters in a body, and just butted the panels together. It took a lot of fitting, and was slow, but in the end I had a fairly consistent .02" or so gap all around. When I tack welded the panel with a 110V mig; the weld definitely fully penetrated and stuck the pieces together great. Given the curve of the panels I was working with, not sure the flanger would have worked well, and the strap of metal would have been impossible to fit down there tightly to both panels. I know they make those clamps that go between two butted sheets to help hold the parts in place and set-up a nice weld gap. What am I missing? Is a flange really the better way to do it? Always willing to learn.

Sorry for the interruption. The Duece is awesome!
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Old 03-10-2011, 04:12 PM   #242 (permalink)
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Not an interruption at all, I'm interested too. I can see how a flange or a backing strip might add strength. Also makes sense about being able to stitch-weld. Can see how these butt-welded joints might fatigue next to the weld and break. Just finished welding-up the top panels and I'm going to go pick up some hardware right now so I can (temporarily) install the hardtop and windshield frame on the cab.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:16 PM   #243 (permalink)
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One issue when welding to pieces of sheet metal together in "butt" orientation is warping due to heat.
Adding a strip to reinforce the area can help considerably with that issue.

But you got it done and looks good, so no worries.
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Old 03-10-2011, 05:42 PM   #244 (permalink)
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hardtop

Got the new hardtop installed on the new cab for the first time (test-fit). Haven't ground-out any of the welds yet, and and you can see the gap in the middle between the back panel and top panel. That will go away. Think it turned-out alright, but need to reinstall the windshield frame and hang the doors before I pat myself on the back. Will tackle that tomorrow.









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Old 03-10-2011, 07:26 PM   #245 (permalink)
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Looks good! You're butt welds look strong. I really doubt you'll have any issues, since that looks like relatively thick sheetmetal. The concern really comes in to play with modern automobiles that have relatively thin sheetmetal. I only brought it up since you're interested in alternative methods. Since I might not have been clear, if you use a back plate, sleeve or flange, you would weld it to your original piece using the holes you drill, then still run a bead down the seam to finish it off. If using a backing plate (instead of a flange) and you leave a slight gap (a couple millimeters), you weld the backing plate with the seam, too. What you end up with is a butt weld with a welded on backing plate for additional strength. We do this every time on a car, since virtually everything is structural in some way on a modern unibody vehicle. The end result before grinding looks something like Frankenstein's neck scars from his stitches. A welded bead down the middle, with a row of welded holes on either side of the bead.

To the poster asking about doing it with quarter panels: if you use one of the pieces of metal you trimmed off from near where you're splicing the new panel in, you can (with a little shaping) fit it inside the old quarter panel and clamp it in place. Weld it in via a few holes pre-drilled through only the outer piece. Then, once you set the new quarter panel in place, you can use some self tapping sheetmetal screws to pull the replacment panel and the sleeve together, essentially clamping it flush with the old panel, before you weld the holes and seam. And you're absolutely right, it takes a lot of fitting and trimming to replace a quarter panel.

Last edited by mobius; 03-10-2011 at 07:36 PM.
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Old 03-10-2011, 07:38 PM   #246 (permalink)
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How was towing with it?
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:36 PM   #247 (permalink)
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Thanks for posting mobius. That's really helpful.
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Old 03-10-2011, 08:45 PM   #248 (permalink)
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How was towing with it?
Well the stock multifuel engine (LDT465) only puts out about 130hp and my M109A3 weighed about 16,000lbs empty, so it was pretty slow even when I wasn't towing a trailer. But that uhaul trailer weighed almost exactly 4000lbs, and I could hardly tell it was back there. Never even bothered hooking up the trailer brakes. Stopped just fine. Backing up was a little bit tricky, just because it was a relatively short trailer. The new 5-ton multifuel engine that I'm swapping-in puts out a little more power (180hp) and the new M103A3 trailer I'm building will also be a bit lighter, so I think it'll make a pretty good package.
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Old 03-11-2011, 10:42 AM   #249 (permalink)
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Great build, have been following all your updates. I saw this today while working in Aspen. It reminded me of your build although perhaps slightly bigger and not so practical.
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Old 03-11-2011, 11:05 AM   #250 (permalink)
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Whoa, I've never seen anything about that vehicle anywhere online before. Not too many of those owned by civilians yet.
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