300 I6 odd idling issue - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > Brand Specific Tech > Ford
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 08-02-2017, 02:22 PM   #1 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
300 I6 odd idling issue

Truck is an 89 F150 used for mild wheeling and general fuckery. The rebuilt that was just dropped in turned to scrap very quickly and that's when I got it. So to get it back up a $100 JY motor went in and I've been chasing the idle since. I've removed all emissions/air pump, EGR was left in but all solenoids are removed, a 351 TB installed, and a modern cat went in place of the old shitty one. I've replaced and rerouted all vacuum lines, timed and retimed it, new TPS, new IAC, and resealed the intakes. The issue that's popping up is once the idle drops after initial startup, cold, the idle sits perfectly at 800-1000rpm. Driving it it has a dieseling sound at 1600rpm+when there's a VERY light throttle (maybe detonation?) but the hotter under the hood gets the higher the idle gets. For example, this morning after my 25 min drive to work the idle was at 1500rpms. All wiring is clean (such as no corrosion), I've made all new grounds from the cab to frame, both genders to frame, frame to battery, and everywhere else.

I'm sort of at a loss at where to go next with this.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.

Last edited by whitneyj; 08-11-2017 at 06:00 PM.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-11-2017, 06:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
I tried adjusting the timing 10* in both directions and neither affected the idle but 10* more advanced made the dieseling sound worse. I verified there isn't a vacuum leak by pinching off all the vacuum lines one at a time and it didn't make a difference as well as hit all parts of yhenibtske, EGR, and TB with ether and no difference in the idle.

I'm going to swap the 300 I6 TB back on and see if that makes a difference.

What I've been tossing around is if a stuck fuel pressure regulator diaphragm would cause this?
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 08-14-2017, 06:21 AM   #3 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
Truck is an 89 F150 used for mild wheeling and general fuckery. The rebuilt that was just dropped in turned to scrap very quickly and that's when I got it. So to get it back up a $100 JY motor went in and I've been chasing the idle since. I've removed all emissions/air pump, EGR was left in but all solenoids are removed, a 351 TB installed, and a modern cat went in place of the old shitty one. I've replaced and rerouted all vacuum lines, timed and retimed it, new TPS, new IAC, and resealed the intakes. The issue that's popping up is once the idle drops after initial startup, cold, the idle sits perfectly at 800-1000rpm. Driving it it has a dieseling sound at 1600rpm+when there's a VERY light throttle (maybe detonation?) but the hotter under the hood gets the higher the idle gets. For example, this morning after my 25 min drive to work the idle was at 1500rpms. All wiring is clean (such as no corrosion), I've made all new grounds from the cab to frame, both genders to frame, frame to battery, and everywhere else.

I'm sort of at a loss at where to go next with this.
Is the radiator 30yr old and half full of shit?

When it gets hot the idle will increase to make the fan move more air.

I'm betting your cooling system is a little fucked and your timing is a little too high.

Re-set the timing with a vacuum gauge. Google how to do it. You don't even need to be spot on because the computer will handle the timing as long as you get close and don't over shoot. Timing marks on the balancer can never really be trusted. The great thing about using a vacuum gauge is that you don't even need marks.

Swapping the smaller throttle body on is a good idea. The throttle body isn't a restriction on that engine until after you're making so much power that you've ditched the stock EFI for something else. All a big throttle body does is fool dumb people into thinking there's more power than there is by making the throttle super touchy.

Bad fuel pressure won't cause high idle. If anything too much fuel will make it stall out at idle. Too little will just make it super low on power everywhere but idle.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 08-14-2017, 06:52 AM   #4 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
Is the radiator 30yr old and half full of shit?

When it gets hot the idle will increase to make the fan move more air.

I'm betting your cooling system is a little fucked and your timing is a little too high.

Re-set the timing with a vacuum gauge. Google how to do it. You don't even need to be spot on because the computer will handle the timing as long as you get close and don't over shoot. Timing marks on the balancer can never really be trusted. The great thing about using a vacuum gauge is that you don't even need marks.

Swapping the smaller throttle body on is a good idea. The throttle body isn't a restriction on that engine until after you're making so much power that you've ditched the stock EFI for something else. All a big throttle body does is fool dumb people into thinking there's more power than there is by making the throttle super touchy.

Bad fuel pressure won't cause high idle. If anything too much fuel will make it stall out at idle. Too little will just make it super low on power everywhere but idle.
Radiator is brand new and the temp gauge reads perfectly from cold to operating temp. Is there a secondary temp sensor the ECM uses than the gauge?

I played with the timing for several hours Friday. I made a few degrees difference both advanced and retarded for a total of a 20* range and it didn't spot the dieseling sound. Too retarded and it was a slug and too advanced and it did all sorts of crazy idling and high throttle issues.

I'll time it off of vacuum sometime this week as well as get the 300 I6's TB back on.

I did run 2 cans of seafoam through the engine this weekend (LOTS of drivetime) and it's made the biggest difference with the dieseling but no affect on the idling.

I haven't checked the fuel pressure, but it stumbles at idle very hard so I have to ride the clutch to keep it from stalling out. The Seafoam didn't make any difference on that, so I'm either missing a vacuum leak somewhere or the timing is still way off.

I pulled all the vacuum lines (except for the brake booster) and plugged the nipple on the intake itself and it didn't lower the idle. So unless the diaphragm is shot inside the booster (brakes are amazing), I don't see there being a vacuum leak anywhere.

The reason the 351 TB is on the engine is I wanted to work out any potential issues with it as there's a punched out 300 I6 being built going in place of this (the engine I pulled originally). The head is currently being worked over, the intakes will all be port matched, 24# injectors, and potentially a Garrett snail shell if I feel like opening that can of worms.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.

Last edited by whitneyj; 08-14-2017 at 06:59 AM.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-14-2017, 07:26 AM   #5 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
Radiator is brand new and the temp gauge reads perfectly from cold to operating temp. Is there a secondary temp sensor the ECM uses than the gauge?
The sensor on the thermostat housing is for the ECM. The computer doesn't even know the gauge exists.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
I played with the timing for several hours Friday. I made a few degrees difference both advanced and retarded for a total of a 20* range and it didn't spot the dieseling sound. Too retarded and it was a slug and too advanced and it did all sorts of crazy idling and high throttle issues.

I'll time it off of vacuum sometime this week as well as get the 300 I6's TB back on.
Sounds about right. A few degrees too high on base can push it into detonation if the base timing + predefined timing curve - max amount of adjustment is still too much. That's pretty rare though unless you're lugging the crap out of it.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
I did run 2 cans of seafoam through the engine this weekend (LOTS of drivetime) and it's made the biggest difference with the dieseling but no affect on the idling.
Sounds like it's running hot to me. It might be running hot and lean or running hot because it's lean but I think it's hot, or it at least thinks it is. Is the radiator original? With an iron block they will fill up with rust if the coolant isn't changed on schedule. They have to be pretty full before it starts affecting anything and even then it'll only really be a problem at idle and high load.

Test resistance on the ECT sensor. You will have to do a little research to fine the resistance and temperature tables since pretty much every link points to FordFuelInjetion.com which has been down for half a decade now. It would be good to know if the computer thinks it's hot when it's not or vise versa.

Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
I haven't checked the fuel pressure, but it stumbles at idle very hard so I have to ride the clutch to keep it from stalling out. The Seafoam didn't make any difference on that, so I'm either missing a vacuum leak somewhere or the timing is still way off. I pulled all the vacuum lines (except for the brake booster) and plugged the nipple on the intake itself and it didn't lower the idle. So unless the diaphragm is shot inside the booster (brakes are amazing), I don't see there being a vacuum leak anywhere.
These trucks will idle fine (albeit at high rpm) with absolutely fucked vacuum systems so it could be a vacuum leak. Pull the hose and shove your thumb over the hole just to see if that's it.


Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
The reason the 351 TB is on the engine is I wanted to work out any potential issues with it as there's a punched out 300 I6 being built going in place of this (the engine I pulled originally). The head is currently being worked over, the intakes will all be port matched, 24# injectors, and potentially a Garrett snail shell if I feel like opening that can of worms.
Sounds like a good plan.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-14-2017, 08:21 AM   #6 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
The sensor on the thermostat housing is for the ECM. The computer doesn't even know the gauge exists.




Sounds about right. A few degrees too high on base can push it into detonation if the base timing + predefined timing curve - max amount of adjustment is still too much. That's pretty rare though unless you're lugging the crap out of it.



Sounds like it's running hot to me. It might be running hot and lean or running hot because it's lean but I think it's hot, or it at least thinks it is. Is the radiator original? With an iron block they will fill up with rust if the coolant isn't changed on schedule. They have to be pretty full before it starts affecting anything and even then it'll only really be a problem at idle and high load.

Test resistance on the ECT sensor. You will have to do a little research to fine the resistance and temperature tables since pretty much every link points to FordFuelInjetion.com which has been down for half a decade now. It would be good to know if the computer thinks it's hot when it's not or vise versa.



These trucks will idle fine (albeit at high rpm) with absolutely fucked vacuum systems so it could be a vacuum leak. Pull the hose and shove your thumb over the hole just to see if that's it.




Sounds like a good plan.
I'll replace that sensor with the one off the original motor.

It definitely feels like it's running too hot to me. After a lot of driving the oil pressure gauge does some very odd things under 1400rpm. I'm running 5W-40 Rotella, so it might be too thin. But either way I agree it sounds like it's running too hot. The block was cracked in rust and junk and misc shit. I did a pretty aggressive coolant flush and the coolant in there now is a perfect green, no more brown with chunks floating in it.

With any vacuum hose the idle immediately jumps to 1700rpm, but again, the only hose I didn't check was the vacuum booster. I'll give that a go this afternoon quick.

I'm half tempted to just throw 19# injectors in there now and deal with it being rich.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-14-2017, 09:10 AM   #7 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
I'll replace that sensor with the one off the original motor.

It definitely feels like it's running too hot to me. After a lot of driving the oil pressure gauge does some very odd things under 1400rpm. I'm running 5W-40 Rotella, so it might be too thin. But either way I agree it sounds like it's running too hot. The block was cracked in rust and junk and misc shit. I did a pretty aggressive coolant flush and the coolant in there now is a perfect green, no more brown with chunks floating in it.

With any vacuum hose the idle immediately jumps to 1700rpm, but again, the only hose I didn't check was the vacuum booster. I'll give that a go this afternoon quick.

I'm half tempted to just throw 19# injectors in there now and deal with it being rich.
Oil pressure switch fires at about 10psi. That thing is fucking hot if it's not making at least teens for oil pressure at ~750rpm. I had a 300 that got ran with gas in the oil for 300mi. It still made good oil pressure it's entire range. My truck will make 15psi at ~600rpm with 15w40 with the temp gauge at L (I was running my high efficiency "winter fan" until the last week in July) and I run a water/oil heat exchanger. A 30 or 40 weight oil is about right for that engine. I would run 5w30 if I didn't have the heat exchanger because I'd rather not under-lube the top end when starting from cold.

I would toss a $100 radiator at the truck or pull the tanks and clean the current one. At least then you know it's good.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-14-2017, 09:45 AM   #8 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
Oil pressure switch fires at about 10psi. That thing is fucking hot if it's not making at least teens for oil pressure at ~750rpm. I had a 300 that got ran with gas in the oil for 300mi. It still made good oil pressure it's entire range. My truck will make 15psi at ~600rpm with 15w40 with the temp gauge at L (I was running my high efficiency "winter fan" until the last week in July) and I run a water/oil heat exchanger. A 30 or 40 weight oil is about right for that engine. I would run 5w30 if I didn't have the heat exchanger because I'd rather not under-lube the top end when starting from cold.

I would toss a $100 radiator at the truck or pull the tanks and clean the current one. At least then you know it's good.
The radiator is brand new, it's definitely not full of anything.

The truck idles at 1200-1400rpm, but when the engine is hot te oil pressure gauge drops off whenever rpm's are below 1200rpm but the gauge is affected by engine load so it sounds like there's an electrical issue involved with that. The engine never knocks or rattles likes it's starved of oil.

I can keep my hand on the dipstick when everything is hot hot, so it's not over 180*'s at the base of the dipstick. I'm going to start swapping sensors on the truck to see if that affects the idle and maybe that's my other issue as well. I'll find out tonight hopefully. Just had a USMC brother put a gun in his mouth last night and some garage time has always been my outlet. So I foresee lots of shit getting done this week.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-14-2017, 10:04 AM   #9 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
The radiator is brand new, it's definitely not full of anything.

The truck idles at 1200-1400rpm, but when the engine is hot te oil pressure gauge drops off whenever rpm's are below 1200rpm but the gauge is affected by engine load so it sounds like there's an electrical issue involved with that. The engine never knocks or rattles likes it's starved of oil.

I can keep my hand on the dipstick when everything is hot hot, so it's not over 180*'s at the base of the dipstick. I'm going to start swapping sensors on the truck to see if that affects the idle and maybe that's my other issue as well. I'll find out tonight hopefully. Just had a USMC brother put a gun in his mouth last night and some garage time has always been my outlet. So I foresee lots of shit getting done this week.
Does the volt gauge drop like the oil gauge? Load shouldn't affect electrical stuff as long as rpm is constant.

Can you get actual numbers for oil pressure and coolant temperature?

It's a waste of time to try to diagnose stuff if you can't be sure the electrical is good and can't be sure it's mechanically good. If we know what temperature the engine is actually running at we can decide if the engine is running right and the computer is reacting to bad input or if the engine is getting bad input, running poorly and giving you the idle problems as a result. A cooking thermometer duct taped to the upper hose is probably good enough.

Any codes?
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2017, 08:31 AM   #10 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
Does the volt gauge drop like the oil gauge? Load shouldn't affect electrical stuff as long as rpm is constant.

Can you get actual numbers for oil pressure and coolant temperature?

It's a waste of time to try to diagnose stuff if you can't be sure the electrical is good and can't be sure it's mechanically good. If we know what temperature the engine is actually running at we can decide if the engine is running right and the computer is reacting to bad input or if the engine is getting bad input, running poorly and giving you the idle problems as a result. A cooking thermometer duct taped to the upper hose is probably good enough.

Any codes?
The only codes I see are for all the smog stuff I removed.

I used an infrared temp gun on the upper port of the radiator and its around 210*, so coolant temp is fine.

I disconnected the temp sensor on the thermostat and when cold the dieseling is gone completely (idle is still high once the IAC kicks out), but once warmed up idle jumps to 1700-1800rpm and the dieseling is much worse. I'll replace that this weekend.

I spent a while timing the truck and am 100% confident timing is not the issue.

The voltmeter in the cab doesn't work (never has) but with my multimeter hooked up I'm always charging at 14V+.

I verified all wiring again and didn't find any corrosion or shorts.

I'm going to verify fuel pressure, when it's hot, hopefully this weekend. When everything is hot it has a bad stumble at idle when load is applied. It'll stall the engine unless you ride the clutch until it clears up.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-18-2017, 09:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
You've gotta be pulling air from somewhere. It's not gonna idle that fast unless it gets the air to do it. Where the engine is getting air from shouldn't matter. You can drill a hole in the plenum and the MAP will see the pressure change and the rest of the system should handle it.

Is the throttle closing all the way? Is the throttle body screw set right? It's used to set base TPS voltage, not idle speed but it could have bottomed it out in the last ~30yr.

No problems at WOT?

Are you running EGR or is it blocked and unplugged?
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-20-2017, 06:18 PM   #12 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
You've gotta be pulling air from somewhere. It's not gonna idle that fast unless it gets the air to do it. Where the engine is getting air from shouldn't matter. You can drill a hole in the plenum and the MAP will see the pressure change and the rest of the system should handle it.

Is the throttle closing all the way? Is the throttle body screw set right? It's used to set base TPS voltage, not idle speed but it could have bottomed it out in the last ~30yr.

No problems at WOT?

Are you running EGR or is it blocked and unplugged?
EGR is installed but not electronically connected nor is there a vacuum line on it.

No problems at WOT aside from the same underfueling.

I adjusted the TB idle screw every which way as well as slotted the TPS mounting holes for more adjustment and it doesn't matter. (It's also a new TPS)

I agree it has to be pulling air from somewhere but I can't find where. I've sprayed nearly the entire intake from TB to head with ether and it didn't make a bit of difference. I pulled the intakes apart and resealed them and it didn't matter.

However, it sprung a tcase leak and while checking all the fluids and vents I found the O2 sensor harness fell onto the exhaust and nuked the connector. I pulled the entire extension harness from by the battery to the sensor and found a spot where all the wires were melted together. My guess is when keyed it was putting 12V to the signal wire all the time. That would have pulled fuel way back when in closed loop, which would explain why it drives shitty when warmed up but not cold. I've had a few mixers so I can't test drive it, but I'll know tomorrow morning at 3am when I'm on my way to the airport if that fixed the fueling issues when warm. I'll go to the salvage yard Saturday morning when I get back in state to grab the intake stuff for the 300 TB to see if that fixes the idle issue.

Name:  IMG_0212.jpg
Views: 261
Size:  50.5 KB
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2017, 07:05 AM   #13 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Drove 2 hours this morning to the airport and aside from the engine oil pressure gauge dropping off at idle everything is good-ish. Idle is stable at 1100rpm and never really climbs higher than that, no more dieseling under light throttle, and it had more power than its ever had with this junkyard motor. I'm still going to swap the 300 TB on to see if that gets the idle to 800rpm and a mechanical oil pressure gauge to make sure I'm not actually losing pressure.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2017, 07:25 AM   #14 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
Drove 2 hours this morning to the airport and aside from the engine oil pressure gauge dropping off at idle everything is good-ish. Idle is stable at 1100rpm and never really climbs higher than that, no more dieseling under light throttle, and it had more power than its ever had with this junkyard motor. I'm still going to swap the 300 TB on to see if that gets the idle to 800rpm and a mechanical oil pressure gauge to make sure I'm not actually losing pressure.
Sounds like it's working as it should. EEC-IV basically never has mystery issues that make the whole system run poorly without setting codes except when things are physically damaged. I guess I was right about that.

$5 says you're actually losing pressure. Put something thick in it and it'll do fine for another decade or three.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 08-21-2017, 04:01 PM   #15 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
Sounds like it's working as it should. EEC-IV basically never has mystery issues that make the whole system run poorly without setting codes except when things are physically damaged. I guess I was right about that.

$5 says you're actually losing pressure. Put something thick in it and it'll do fine for another decade or three.
I've never known these systems to have issues aside from physical issues like injector o-rings, clogged injectors, or bad sensors. Otherwise of all the trucks I've owned they worked flawlessly right up until I violently disassembled the motor

I'm sure I am losing pressure. 5W-40 Rotella isn't thick... as it leaks out I'm replacing it with 10W-40 (rear main seal and tapper cover are steady drips). If that isn't thick enough I'll head towards 20W stuff.

I appreciate all you help and insight on this. This had me scratching my head for entirely too long...

Now to reseal that damned tcase....
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-19-2018, 09:08 AM   #16 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Just an update on this: I have most of the issues figured out. The first being, I installed a breather in place of the tube that runs from the valve cover to the air filter. The breather was creating enough back pressure to not vent correctly. I installed a fitting and hose and nearly all of my oil pressure issues went away.

Name:  99687B05-0677-4D75-A825-8BBC2127A739.jpg
Views: 221
Size:  82.1 KB

As far as the fueling issues go, deleting the air pump affected what the O2 sensor was seeing so it would lean way out. I reinstalled the air pump and just the injection rail in the head and itís a whole new truck.

So moral of the story: leave the air pump installed and keep a vacuum on the valve cover on old, worn out engines.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.

Last edited by whitneyj; 04-19-2018 at 09:10 AM.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-27-2018, 06:52 PM   #17 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
bremen242's Avatar
 
Join Date: Mar 2004
Member # 28687
Location: GANS
Posts: 3,743
I could be wrong, but I think disconnecting the EGR will definitely cause issues. The computer is designed to run lean for emissions during cruise and low power conditions, and the exhaust gas prevents detonation.
__________________
---
Quote:
Originally Posted by fatdan460
i don't like it, i don't understand it, and i don't think it would do good doughnuts and burnouts.
bremen242 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 04-27-2018, 07:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by bremen242 View Post
I could be wrong, but I think disconnecting the EGR will definitely cause issues. The computer is designed to run lean for emissions during cruise and low power conditions, and the exhaust gas prevents detonation.
As long as the computer knows that EGR isn't working (e.g. you straight up unplug the sensor) it won't cause issues.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2018, 08:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
As long as the computer knows that EGR isn't working (e.g. you straight up unplug the sensor) it won't cause issues.


Everything is unplugged so I believe Iím running rich actually. The backfiring sort of proved that....
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2018, 09:06 AM   #20 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
I didn't see it earlier from the pic but your PCV should be routed to a fitting on the right side of the intake plenum (preferably in the bottom port) and the breather should be routed to clean air. You want the PCV to get vacuum, not atmospheric pressure. Pressure in the crankcase is basically atmospheric so you'll get little flow if PCV isn't hooked to vacuum. You'll get less sludge and get it more slowly if there's good PCV flow but you probably know that.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2018, 09:12 AM   #21 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
I didn't see it earlier from the pic but your PCV should be routed to a fitting on the right side of the intake plenum (preferably in the bottom port) and the breather should be routed to clean air. You want the PCV to get vacuum, not atmospheric pressure. Pressure in the crankcase is basically atmospheric so you'll get little flow if PCV isn't hooked to vacuum. You'll get less sludge and get it more slowly if there's good PCV flow but you probably know that.


The PCV is at the back of the valve cover grabbing vacuum from the intake. What you see is the breather going to clean air. So everything is as it should be.

Previously I had just a filter for the breather but for whatever reason that dropped my oil pressure at idle to low single digits. Routing it to behind the filter fixed all that.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2018, 09:16 AM   #22 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
The PCV is at the back of the valve cover grabbing vacuum from the intake. What you see is the breather going to clean air. So everything is as it should be.

Previously I had just a filter for the breather but for whatever reason that dropped my oil pressure at idle to low single digits. Routing it to behind the filter fixed all that.
The direction that PCV is installed it's not gonna be letting much air go from the intake tube to the crankcase. You're pulling a vacuum on the crankcase. I have no idea why that's helping oil pressure so much but I guess it works.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2018, 09:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
The direction that PCV is installed it's not gonna be letting much air go from the intake tube to the crankcase. You're pulling a vacuum on the crankcase. I have no idea why that's helping oil pressure so much but I guess it works.


Thatís not a PVC in the front port of the valve cover, itís a thru fitting.

Also to note, I had sludge (water contamination) issues under the oil filler and routing t like this fixed that. This motor is beyond worn out ($100 junkyard pull that was full of water) so it could be all the blow by trying to pressurize the crankcase too. Who knows. I have a 300 punched 0.060Ē over thatís being rebuilt to replace this.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2018, 09:31 AM   #24 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
arse_sidewards's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Member # 256962
Location: People's Republic of Taxachusetts
Posts: 3,631
Quote:
Originally Posted by whitneyj View Post
Thatís not a PVC in the front port of the valve cover, itís a thru fitting.

Also to note, I had sludge (water contamination) issues under the oil filler and routing t like this fixed that. This motor is beyond worn out ($100 junkyard pull that was full of water) so it could be all the blow by trying to pressurize the crankcase too. Who knows. I have a 300 punched 0.060Ē over thatís being rebuilt to replace this.

I'll take your word for it but it looks exactly like a PCV.

I hope that 300 needed to be bored that much. Cylinder walls are one of the weaker areas (relative to a the rest of the 300). Boring should generally be kept to a minimum.
arse_sidewards is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 07-13-2018, 09:45 AM   #25 (permalink)
Rock God
 
whitneyj's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2009
Member # 135947
Location: Oshkosh, WI
Posts: 2,369
Quote:
Originally Posted by arse_sidewards View Post
I'll take your word for it but it looks exactly like a PCV.



I hope that 300 needed to be bored that much. Cylinder walls are one of the weaker areas (relative to a the rest of the 300). Boring should generally be kept to a minimum.


Iíll take a picture of it later if I remember. Itís just a generic plastic fitting with 2 different sized nipples for whatever size hosing you want to push on it. Both nipples are cast closed, you have to cut open the one you need. No clue where I got it from but itís been in my parts drawers for years and just happened to fit the Ford grommet.

The walls on that engine were scuffed pretty bad. I had to go that big otherwise I wouldíve just gone with the minimal required. The machine shop said the block looked good and they werenít worried about it. Weíre going to toss 4-6psi at it too so weíll find the weak cylinder if there is one. This is my brotherís truck Iíve been slowly unfucking after years of dick fingers being under the hood and behind the dash. Everything else is finally hammered out but the radio and voltmeter, so once those are good heíll be taking the other engine in for the rest of the rebuild.
__________________
Place banana in your ear.
Observe that there are no alligators around.
Conclude bananas placed in ears keep alligators away.
whitneyj is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 04:33 PM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.