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Old 08-02-2019, 10:26 AM   #51 (permalink)
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I also donít understand what made it fail. Iíve driven transports and let them high idle all night for heat (Canadian) and never an issue. Iíve seen tons of other trucks live their life at idle without major failure too. Could have been an engine built on a Monday morning or a Friday at F-it oíclock
Doesn't it have something to do with the regen processes for the DPF's on the newer trucks? My understanding is that when the DPF needs a regen they just dump tons of fuel into the rear two cylinders to create excessive EGTs and sort of burn all the shit out of the DPF, and that's why all the modern diesels get shit mileage and why you see toasted rear cylinders on 6.4s all the time. Didn't know it was an issue on the 6.7 though.
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Old 08-02-2019, 02:16 PM   #52 (permalink)
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400 ftlbs @ 1500 rpm? That's what matters in a truck.
i dont see how it matters with the ridiculous 10 speed that will be behind it.

Based on shitty 460 heads and mild builds with mild porting seeing 550 ft lbs i was thinking for sure 500-525 ft lbs with modern aluminum heads..

oh well, still better than a v10 or 6.2
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Old 08-02-2019, 03:58 PM   #53 (permalink)
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400 ftlbs @ 1500 rpm? That's what matters in a truck.
no it doesn't
I seriously doubt they even offer a manual trans any more
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Old 08-02-2019, 05:06 PM   #54 (permalink)
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20 years later, it ain't an 8.1L...
You're absolutely right, it's got 100hp and 25ft/lb on that orphan.
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Old 08-03-2019, 04:04 PM   #55 (permalink)
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no it doesn't
I seriously doubt they even offer a manual trans any more
How does it not? 90% of the trucks life will be between 1500-3000 rpm. How often do you hit 5000rpm while driving? I never do unless I'm driving like an asshole for fun.
The 10 speed will also make sure it stays in its powerband.
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Old 08-03-2019, 08:19 PM   #56 (permalink)
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How does it not? 90% of the trucks life will be between 1500-3000 rpm. How often do you hit 5000rpm while driving? I never do unless I'm driving like an asshole for fun.
The 10 speed will also make sure it stays in its powerband.
this just in
hp does not occur until 5k rpm
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Old 08-03-2019, 09:24 PM   #57 (permalink)
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this just in
hp does not occur until 5k rpm
torque moves you. It's 400+ from 1500 to 5000.
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:38 PM   #58 (permalink)
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How does it not? 90% of the trucks life will be between 1500-3000 rpm. How often do you hit 5000rpm while driving? I never do unless I'm driving like an asshole for fun.
The 10 speed will also make sure it stays in its powerband.
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torque moves you. It's 400+ from 1500 to 5000.
Low end torque is certainly nice from a drivability perspective, but torque can be easily compensated for with gearing. Horsepower on the other hand cannot, and it is horsepower that pulls a load up a hill at the speed limit.

Its power band is at 5,500 RPM, and yes, you are correct, the 10 speed should do a terrific job of keeping the engine in its power band at full tilt. Have you ever towed heavy with a gasser? You are pretty much constantly above 3,000RPM when pulling any sort of hill. Obviously having 400FtLbs down at 1,500 RPM should negate some of the need to wind it out all the time, but if you expect to pull some real loads with your diesel buddies, you can expect to be running around 4,000-5,500RPM on the big hills.
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Old 08-04-2019, 05:48 PM   #59 (permalink)
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You're absolutely right, it's got 100hp and 25ft/lb on that orphan.
Whoop-de-shit. 20 (more like 40+ considering the 496s architecture) years of tech and they managed to squeak 25 ft lbs PEAK tq at 800 higher rpm.

These numbers from ford are very disappointing considering engines of yesteryear. Hell, it barely squeaks out the ancient 6.4L hemi engine.

They had a clean slate to blow other engines out of the water, and just barely made a difference. I have no doubt it will be a solid performer. But I'll wait 8-10 years to see how they hold up.

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Old 08-04-2019, 08:39 PM   #60 (permalink)
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Whoop-de-shit. 20 (more like 40+ considering the 496s architecture) years of tech and they managed to squeak 25 ft lbs PEAK tq at 800 higher rpm.

These numbers from ford are very disappointing considering engines of yesteryear. Hell, it barely squeaks out the ancient 6.4L hemi engine.

They had a clean slate to blow other engines out of the water, and just barely made a difference. I have no doubt it will be a solid performer. But I'll wait 8-10 years to see how they hold up.

I felt the same way about your mullet flapping 8.1... 30-40 years of tech, and it barely(if at all) surpasses the 460 of 1970, or the 534 superduty of the 50-60's..
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Old 08-04-2019, 08:43 PM   #61 (permalink)
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I felt the same way about your mullet flapping 8.1... 30-40 years of tech, and it barely(if at all) surpasses the 460 of 1970, or the 534 superduty of the 50-60's..
So you agree, the engine is a huge disappoint power wise. Lets hope it pulls decent MPG.
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Old 08-04-2019, 09:49 PM   #62 (permalink)
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You could go back and forth all day on the 7.3 vs 8.1 stuff. "I can tune the 8.1 to make more power" I can tune the new 7.3" I can do cam, headers the 8.1 with the tune" etc etc

The 8.1 had some serious low down grunt, and was available with a manual. Sure the new 10spd is going to keep the motor in a decent rpm spot but you can bet towing its going to be up near the peak HP not down near the peak TQ, kinda how autos always go. It looks like they ripped of 50-60% of an LS and slapped a ford badge on it. The short skirt pistons makes me hear piston slap from here in about 90K like a stroked short rod LS.

GM is coming out with their new LS based bigger inch motor (I know I know they are LT but meh all stem from 1997 LS) Think about the 7.0 LS they had before if they would have spec'd a truck cam and tuned it for low end.

LS7 4.125 bore and 4.00 stroke - 505HP @ 6300 RPM & 470 LB-FT @ 4800 RPM in camaro trim. Instead they went with this new 6.6 that puts out 401HP @ 5200 RPM & 464 LB-FT @ 4000 rpm, if it responds anything like most LS and LT motors you know it is good for a bunch more but they didnt go there.

Super chevy ran a dyno on a refreshed LS7 with comp cam that made 661HP @ 6600 RPM & 585 LB-FT @ 4900

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Old 08-05-2019, 07:18 AM   #63 (permalink)
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Just watching the UPS trucks and tow trucks go back to gas says a lot. I will say that I don't mind how quiet they are compared to the diesel.
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Old 08-08-2019, 11:36 AM   #64 (permalink)
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You could go back and forth all day on the 7.3 vs 8.1 stuff. "I can tune the 8.1 to make more power" I can tune the new 7.3" I can do cam, headers the 8.1 with the tune" etc etc

The 8.1 had some serious low down grunt, and was available with a manual. Sure the new 10spd is going to keep the motor in a decent rpm spot but you can bet towing its going to be up near the peak HP not down near the peak TQ, kinda how autos always go. It looks like they ripped of 50-60% of an LS and slapped a ford badge on it. The short skirt pistons makes me hear piston slap from here in about 90K like a stroked short rod LS.

GM is coming out with their new LS based bigger inch motor (I know I know they are LT but meh all stem from 1997 LS) Think about the 7.0 LS they had before if they would have spec'd a truck cam and tuned it for low end.

LS7 4.125 bore and 4.00 stroke - 505HP @ 6300 RPM & 470 LB-FT @ 4800 RPM in camaro trim. Instead they went with this new 6.6 that puts out 401HP @ 5200 RPM & 464 LB-FT @ 4000 rpm, if it responds anything like most LS and LT motors you know it is good for a bunch more but they didnt go there.

Super chevy ran a dyno on a refreshed LS7 with comp cam that made 661HP @ 6600 RPM & 585 LB-FT @ 4900

You do realize the LS had more in common with a Ford 302 than anything GM ever made when it was new, right? Can Ford not use their old tech and improve on it? According to one of our auto workers here, this thing was actually designed years ago and not recently.

I'm not sure what relevance GM or anyone else's performance engines have to do with truck engines either. People were expecting half ton power per displacement with this thing, without realizing that most half tons never see the abuse a 1 ton or bigger will. It's designed to live a long time on 87 octane fuel and be cost effective. I guarantee a simple cam swap (once some cores make it to the aftermarket), tune, and some 93 octane will get the power numbers you want.

As for the 8.1, lay the dyno curves over each other. I guarantee that 8.1 isn't any more impressive at any engine speed than this 7.3. It's an old iron headed lower compression big block that got stroked to it's maximum and EFI. That's it.

"Grunt" is not quantifiable. Horsepower @ XXX engine speed is. This one will do better with less displacement and due to modern design, has the capacity to make more.

Notice how the "derated" engine is pretty much just the same engine but taking it's numbers from 3900 rpm on that dyno sheet? Pick a speed. Compare the 8.1. It's not as awesome as some of you make it out to be.
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Old 08-08-2019, 10:12 PM   #65 (permalink)
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I dont remember saying how great a 8.1 is at all, I said you could go back on forth on making them more powerful. I understand they made the motor to last in a truck and was just pointing out that Gm has a big inch motor (the LS7) that they could have re worked to do truck duty but they didnt. There has to be a reason it never happened vs building the new 6.6 gasser, short deck, long stroke and short rods all hurt that long term durability and it looks like the ford 7.3 has all 3.
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Old 08-09-2019, 11:24 AM   #66 (permalink)
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I dont remember saying how great a 8.1 is at all, I said you could go back on forth on making them more powerful. I understand they made the motor to last in a truck and was just pointing out that Gm has a big inch motor (the LS7) that they could have re worked to do truck duty but they didnt. There has to be a reason it never happened vs building the new 6.6 gasser, short deck, long stroke and short rods all hurt that long term durability and it looks like the ford 7.3 has all 3.
Fair enough on the 8.1, thought you were parroting some previous posts with the grunt comment.

The 7.3 is over square with a 4.22" bore x 3.98" stroke... just what I'd want compared to the outgoing undersquare V10. It's no big bore short stroke engine like a 429/460... but it's pretty good for this purpose.

454 was 4.25 x 4"... so this thing is really closest to the 454 if anything. I'd even bet it's physically a little bit smaller given the more minimally canted valves like a small block.

LS7 is still a small block. Gotta remember engines get hot as hell when they are stroked and bored to the max, and the parts are still small block sized inside. I think GM is going to need a physically larger block to make a truck engine reliable at larger capacities, and probably why they built the 6.6.

I'd rather have a GM 427 (big block) or Ford 429 in a work truck than a 427" small block from either brand for these reasons.

I said in the GCC thread that these won't be the 7.3s final power numbers. Competition will bring higher output and maybe increased bore and stroke, especially if they ever utilize what I think are direct injection bosses under the intake. For now, I'm happy as hell this thing is plain old simple port injection. They've given us a piece of the past with this one, and I don't think that should be overlooked as a benefit when considering purchase.
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Old 08-09-2019, 04:44 PM   #67 (permalink)
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Yeah I'm mainly just wondering about that deck height and rod length. I hear you on the 427 BBC vs 427 SBC in a truck it would be BBC every time for me, even gm felt the need for the tall deck block when they put the 366 and 427 in a MDT.

(Personally I like oddball engines and the little 366 works fine in a stock 1 ton or dump truck vs the 350's you would often see in the old c50's)

I dont know if this still holds true but I was told by a few guys at a local dyno shop years ago that a stock block LS should be kept at 3.9 stroke or smaller to keep the reliability, even 4.00 was frowned upon unless you jumped to aftermarket tall deck block so thats why I'm wondering what the 7.3 ended up with for deck height and rod length.
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