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Old 03-15-2019, 02:08 PM   #1 (permalink)
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72 F250 2WD to 4WD build

I bought a 1972 F-250 Explorer a few years ago to build something between big gay truck and a mall crawler that can still haul and tow. Got all systems working and truck complete including A/C. I drive it a few days a week.

Goal;
Old school looking 4x4 with modern capabilities. Since most miles will be pavement and dirt roads to/from wheeling areas, I want it to handle and ride decent. I live in the desert so terrain is rocks, washes, sand. Needs to be able to tow an 8k trailer, haul motorcycles, building materials, etc. Low as possible to fit tires of choice. Probably need dis-connectable front sway bar and air bags to make it all work. Loud pipes and audio system. Use for camping, hunting, general shenanigans, burnouts.
Basically a 70's grandpa truck with big tires, but on closer inspection decent suspension/drive train. No tube bumpers, hacked-up meth inspired dash, gay LED lighting.

The high level plan;
-460; 9.5:1, ported heads, EFI, etc. 450hp/560tq.
-C6 built for above with higher stall converter.
-NP205, married to C6, twin sticked
-D60, ‘95 ball joint, disc brake
-10.25 Sterling
-Front link suspension (3 link or radius arms) with coilovers, rear leaf’s
-cross-over steering
-40” rubber
-relocate fuel tank, new fuel system

Budget: $15k-ish.

Phase 1 is to get motor swapped and front suspension built. Truck running and driving. This will be a LONG and SLOW build.

Phase 2 is re-gear, lockers, longer leaf springs, half ass paint job, maybe nitrous. Armor.

The day I bought it. Drove it 90 mile home and made it alive. Steering and brakes were fucked. Got that fixed right away. One green Mofo.


Did a tune up on mostly unmolested 390. Truck is basically a survivor.


Ditched the in-cab fuel tank and installed a new aux tank to make room for audio system (more important than brakes or steering)


Interior completed. new door/window seals and what not. Since added 3 pt belts. Lime green and avocado interior...


Mock-up and measurements for 40s. Going to section and stretch wheel well forward to keep factory look. Move axle forward inch or 2. Cross-over steering.


Axles from 95 F350


76 460, Bronco C6 with stub shaft and adapter, 205


Why not just start with a 67-72 4x4? Cuz they didn't make many compared to 2wd's and those left are expensive and/or beat to shit. Then would still have to replace entire drive train and suspension.

Oh, and
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Old 03-15-2019, 02:26 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Started with refresh of 10.25. One side had horrid leak and non functional brake. Yummy!


Built and axle stand to work on it and the 60 out of leftovers.


Checked backlash, was OK and all bearings in OK shape. This is a limited slip 4:10 ratio unit.

New brakes, lines, seals. Cut off leaf pads, ready to install.


Opened up the 460. A virgin with original bore, out of a van.


Was planning to port heads myself, but now plan to have them done by 460 guru Scotty at PAM including all valve train. Just don't have time to do it all plus fuck it up.


Taking shit apart is progress, right?
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:40 PM   #3 (permalink)
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For some reason I can only see the first four pics, but it looks like a good start, and sounds like a solid plan!
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Old 03-15-2019, 04:43 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Same here. Looks like an interesting build, but I can't see the pictures hosted by garage journal.
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Old 03-15-2019, 05:42 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Love bumpsides. Sounds like a pretty good plan.

I can't see anything but the first four pics either.
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Old 03-15-2019, 06:45 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Looks like a cool build. If it were up to me I wouldn't paint it
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Old 03-15-2019, 09:15 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Was the 90 miles from tucson? Looks familiar, maybe even a chick from my hs

I'd been thinking about picking up a rolled 6.2 reg cab super duty and an dropping in an old bump 3/4 for similar use,I'll be watching your build
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Old 03-16-2019, 12:18 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Cool to see these builds coming out for a usable 4x4 that could pull DD duty if needed. I'm going to be plunking a 63 gmc 3\4T body down on a 94 ram 2500 chassis to shortcut newer brakes,suspension,steering etc but little smaller finished product (thinking 35's-37's) and much smaller budget lol.

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Old 03-16-2019, 10:57 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'd go E4OD over C6 because overdrive is a good idea. Other than that sounds good.
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Old 03-17-2019, 04:42 AM   #10 (permalink)
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I'd go E4OD over C6 because overdrive is a good idea. Other than that sounds good.
That's a good suggestion....OD certainly is helpful.
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Old 03-17-2019, 12:39 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rattle snake View Post
Started with refresh of 10.25. One side had horrid leak and non functional brake. Yummy!

Built and axle stand to work on it and the 60 out of leftovers. New brakes, lines, seals. Checked backlash. This is a limited slip 4:10 ratio unit. Cut off leaf pads, ready to install.


Opened up the 460. A virgin with original bore, out of a van.


Was planning to port heads myself, but now plan to have them done by 460 guru Scotty at PAM including all valve train. Just don't have time to do it all plus fuck it up.


Taking shit apart is progress, right?
Im not getting any of these pics. Scotty is good people, a BBF wizard really. He did a cam for me recently and I've used his porting instructions successfully before. Which heads are you going with? D0VE with dish pistons or D3 with flat tops? Either can get what you want, but I'd look at his cost of porting and valve work and seriously entertain going aluminum (just not Procomp without seriously looking at what they are and what they need). I take it you want to keep stock style pistons and exhaust though, which does help keep things simpler.

Highly recommend having your block zero decked no matter what you do. And do Paul Kane's oil mods while you're at it. They are free and make a difference. Hmmm, appears his site http://www.highflowdynamics.net is down. Look on 460ford.com some I'm sure they are discussed and pictured there. But, main oil feed enlargement, filter mount smoothing, top rear valley return smoothing, adding a return on front passenger side at least, grinding down stress risers and rough casting flash on the holes above the cam, and distributor gear oiling jet mod are things I would do for any performance build.

For the C6, I'd settle for a performance valve body, get 4-5 quality clutches in the forward drum, and at a minimum do the #9 roller ($45 from Jay Broader, no need to machine your own). Clutch pack shimming makes a world of difference here. Use R servo and E lever. E40D 1st and 2nd are awesome in a 4x4 but bottom line, C6s hold power for cheap, and if I could only do 2 things, it would be valve body and properly set clutch packs.

Highly recommend Jay by the way. He will spend time on the phone with you and won't sell you shit you don't need. I ended up using primarily his parts for my 700+ hp C6 build and he sells some nice kits for good prices for the power range you are looking for. Never picked his brain about E4OD stuff but he's primarily a Ford transmission guy so I'd ask him.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:36 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by billybob_81067 View Post
For some reason I can only see the first four pics, but it looks like a good start, and sounds like a solid plan!
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Originally Posted by '84 Bronco II View Post
Same here. Looks like an interesting build, but I can't see the pictures hosted by garage journal.
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Originally Posted by zainyD View Post
Love bumpsides. Sounds like a pretty good plan.

I can't see anything but the first four pics either.
Thanks guys. Hopefully pics are working now, moved to google...

My wife got into horses awhile back and uses my, uh 'her' truck regularly to haul them around, so I needed a 2nd reasonably capable truck for the times when we both need one. After I got the 72 in decent shape she started using it as well and likes it the way it is. Doesn't want me to 'ruin' it by turning it into a monster truck....

Thought long and hard about moving forward with my original plan, with this specific truck. Finally committed to project and bought some parts.
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Old 03-18-2019, 10:53 AM   #13 (permalink)
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Looks like a cool build. If it were up to me I wouldn't paint it
Indecision is my paint plan at this point. The belt line was originally lime metallic green, so the cab/underhood doesn't match. It has at least 50 unnecessary holes all over including 3 fuel fills that are in the wrong place. Once I hack up the front fenders I'll have to do something but it will be towards the end of the project. Whatever I do it will be cheap and won't stop me from plowing through the brush.

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Was the 90 miles from tucson? Looks familiar, maybe even a chick from my hs

I'd been thinking about picking up a rolled 6.2 reg cab super duty and an dropping in an old bump 3/4 for similar use,I'll be watching your build
Ya I got it from an old guy in Tucson. He got it from original owner's grand kid. Bump prices in PHX are retarded for clapped out shit with salvage title. Considered frame swap on 05'+ myself.
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:19 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Cool to see these builds coming out for a usable 4x4 that could pull DD duty if needed. I'm going to be plunking a 63 gmc 3\4T body down on a 94 ram 2500 chassis to shortcut newer brakes,suspension,steering etc but little smaller finished product (thinking 35's-37's) and much smaller budget lol.
Seems tube buggies for KOH is the thing now but are one dimensional. Like a drag car, boat or dirtbike. Fun but you have to load it up and take it somewhere to use it. Going for something I can use whenever for whatever.

Budget.... trying to keep it reasonable too, so I don't get way upside down in it. Like any project some day I will sell it. No matter how nice, most bumps don't sell for over 10-15K, even with 40k invested.

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I'd go E4OD over C6 because overdrive is a good idea. Other than that sounds good.
I pondered this option. Need a trans controller and torque converters are much more expensive. Went C6 to keep within budget. Had a 77 bronco w/ C4 and lived without OD. Like it, this truck will be mostly local miles.

Considered getting a 90's EFI 460/E4OD combo but the head's intake ports are unique and finding someone to tune it would be an issue. All solvable with enough time and $ but I'm short on both of those.

Wish I could have it all; blown 532 stroker, OD auto, 4spd atlas, high dolar axles... where does it stop?
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Old 03-18-2019, 11:50 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Im not getting any of these pics. Scotty is good people, a BBF wizard really. He did a cam for me recently and I've used his porting instructions successfully before. Which heads are you going with? D0VE with dish pistons or D3 with flat tops? Either can get what you want, but I'd look at his cost of porting and valve work and seriously entertain going aluminum (just not Procomp without seriously looking at what they are and what they need). I take it you want to keep stock style pistons and exhaust though, which does help keep things simpler.

Highly recommend having your block zero decked no matter what you do. And do Paul Kane's oil mods while you're at it. They are free and make a difference. Hmmm, appears his site http://www.highflowdynamics.net is down. Look on 460ford.com some I'm sure they are discussed and pictured there. But, main oil feed enlargement, filter mount smoothing, top rear valley return smoothing, adding a return on front passenger side at least, grinding down stress risers and rough casting flash on the holes above the cam, and distributor gear oiling jet mod are things I would do for any performance build.

For the C6, I'd settle for a performance valve body, get 4-5 quality clutches in the forward drum, and at a minimum do the #9 roller ($45 from Jay Broader, no need to machine your own). Clutch pack shimming makes a world of difference here. Use R servo and E lever. E40D 1st and 2nd are awesome in a 4x4 but bottom line, C6s hold power for cheap, and if I could only do 2 things, it would be valve body and properly set clutch packs.

Highly recommend Jay by the way. He will spend time on the phone with you and won't sell you shit you don't need. I ended up using primarily his parts for my 700+ hp C6 build and he sells some nice kits for good prices for the power range you are looking for. Never picked his brain about E4OD stuff but he's primarily a Ford transmission guy so I'd ask him.
I have '76 D3 heads, so 95cc chambers. To get 9.5-9.8:1 static I plan to use a flat top zero decked. Based on some of Scotty's similar builds on FB, the stock ported heads are a good match to a 460ci motor in a low rpm truck application. If it was a street strip app, I wouldn't consider stockers.
Arguably the best 'little' BBF head is the AFR 280 but needs custom pistons for revised valve location. Then might as well do rods to go with fancy pistons. Also need stud mount rockers. This adds another $2000 and to get decent gains for the $ might as well cam to spin it faster. Really need more cubes to bring power band back down.... and snowball has started rolling. Stuff behind it will break. Chromo this and that. budget blown... How much power do I really need? well , all of it.

Another option are the TFS heads that don't need custom pistons at +$700 over ported stockers. If I were to port them myself, I would have about $1100 into them which is 600 cheaper than paying Scotty. Either way I plan to get a custom ground cam from him to make it all work together. Fitech 600hp power adder EFI on Edel RPM.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:05 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Question

Dug into the D60. One side was untouched, the other suspect. Hub missing, wrong spindle nut with no lock, wrong spindle (TTB 50), missing dust shield.
Every seal, joint and bearing shot. Needs everything outside of diff.
But to get started I need to decide on front suspension. I think welding lower link bracket on the driver side tube may fry the inner axle seal.

So, given the info in original post, 3-link or radius arm??

I have spent a lot of time contemplating. The 3-link won't bind, but the extra articulation isn't really needed in my application.

If I 3-link, I think a dis-connectable front sway bar is needed for highway manners, and will achieve the best of both worlds. I would put upper link on pass side to avoid driveshaft and ease of mounting. Would then have to run fender well exit headers to clear the upper link. From the research I have done, the fender well exits are likely the better choice anyhow.

The radius arms are simpler but seem like a compromise. dunno but need to pick and move forward. Looking at kits from Rough stuff, Ballistic, Barnes, etc. to work with coilover.

Current status:


I plan to use all spicer stuff (u-joints, ball joints, etc) for rebuild. Most threads about brands/quality are outdated. Not sure what is currently best choice for UJ/BJ.
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Old 03-18-2019, 01:18 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Since I'm stuck in indecision on font axle, I blew apart the NP205. Some fuckwits had been in it before and used a whole tube or RTV. It was a filthy mess and needed a re-seal. While I had the shift rails out I modified the rear for twin stick operation. Bearings OK, it's ready to go back together now. I have gasket kit and plan to use permatex gasket adhesive. What is best choice for bolt threads? Same stuff, RTV, actual thread sealer product, or ?

Plan to upgrade to 1350 yokes once I decide on driveshaft style.

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Old 03-18-2019, 03:57 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Wow, nice garage!

You're reasoning behind the C6 seems solid.

With regard to 3-link or radius arm, I don't think you'll be disappointed with either one. If you decide to go with radius arms you may want to consider either set of James Duff extended tubular rarms (they make a spacer for those using D60's with their radius arms) or Bloody Knuckle Garage (formerly Cage Offroad) extended arms which have a bracket that you weld to your axle tube to which the radius arm mounts (very similar to the new 05+ Super Duty axles).
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Old 03-18-2019, 04:14 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by rattle snake View Post
I have '76 D3 heads, so 95cc chambers. To get 9.5-9.8:1 static I plan to use a flat top zero decked. Based on some of Scotty's similar builds on FB, the stock ported heads are a good match to a 460ci motor in a low rpm truck application. If it was a street strip app, I wouldn't consider stockers.
Arguably the best 'little' BBF head is the AFR 280 but needs custom pistons for revised valve location. Then might as well do rods to go with fancy pistons. Also need stud mount rockers. This adds another $2000 and to get decent gains for the $ might as well cam to spin it faster. Really need more cubes to bring power band back down.... and snowball has started rolling. Stuff behind it will break. Chromo this and that. budget blown... How much power do I really need? well , all of it.

Another option are the TFS heads that don't need custom pistons at +$700 over ported stockers. If I were to port them myself, I would have about $1100 into them which is 600 cheaper than paying Scotty. Either way I plan to get a custom ground cam from him to make it all work together. Fitech 600hp power adder EFI on Edel RPM.
I have ported D3s on the truck but never tore into the short block. I sold some D0VE I had and will just do flat tops later like you are intending. I totally get the snow ball effect, but I've seen some good deals on used heads as well. Edelbrocks are overpriced new but they also use stock valve locations if you come across a used set. Oh, and A429s.

I have the AFR 280s on my car engine. Very nice heads indeed. My pistons are cut for AFR valve position but lower lift cams like you will be using for torque actually clear with existing SCJ cut pistons, which I've seen deals for many times. That info came out after I purchased my pistons. Naturally, all the good used head deals came up right after I purchased too.

In the end, it's fun to surprise someone with a reworked stock BBF engine. Even the D3VE heads have a ton of potential. More than most any other stock iron passenger car cylinder head from those years.

Oh, and sweet digs. Love the crushed oil pan shelf.
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Old 03-18-2019, 08:12 PM   #20 (permalink)
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Man, I'm looking at your goals and budget, and what you want to use it for, put a tape measure on that super duty you have and consider what a chassis swap on a 6.2 truck could do for you, the 6.2 6spd combo is a beast, before tuning, and it could go together really nice, and have a really versatile finished product
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Old 03-19-2019, 01:35 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Projectjunkie I really didn't want to be the first one to suggest it but after seeing the old parked next to new that thought ran through my head. Actually that was my thought process after awhile on my project too and how I ended up deciding to do the frame swap. I kept thinking of all the things that needed to be upgraded on the stock drivetrain\frame\suspension and really the only thing that would be retained was the body anyhow, so why not swap to a newer donor and get upgraded axles-brakes-steering-suspension etc but still be able to drive to parts store and get spares in a pinch.
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Old 03-19-2019, 09:16 AM   #22 (permalink)
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I think welding lower link bracket on the driver side tube may fry the inner axle seal.

So, given the info in original post, 3-link or radius arm??

I have spent a lot of time contemplating. The 3-link won't bind, but the extra articulation isn't really needed in my application.

If I 3-link, I think a dis-connectable front sway bar is needed for highway manners, and will achieve the best of both worlds. I would put upper link on pass side to avoid driveshaft and ease of mounting. Would then have to run fender well exit headers to clear the upper link. From the research I have done, the fender well exits are likely the better choice anyhow.

The radius arms are simpler but seem like a compromise. dunno but need to pick and move forward. Looking at kits from Rough stuff, Ballistic, Barnes, etc. to work with coilover.
I'd probably go radius arm for the build you've described. It will be a little more predictable on the street but can still flex quite well if done right.

I've had both setups on my FSB, with the same springs and shocks even so pretty good comparison.

The radius arm is more streetable. My upper, or 3rd link, is on top of the diff so its offset to the driver side. The truck wants to pivot around the the off-centered 3rd link so on hard acceleration the truck leans a little to the driver side and on hard braking it leans a bit to the passenger side. I find it predictable and the geometry is on (links and steering) so it tracks straight and doesn't try to change lanes on you, but it wouldn't be great to just toss the keys to anyone without experience, and I wouldn't want to tow much with it. My rear springs are soft too so that doesn't bode well for towing either.

Because you mentioned street manners, wife maybe driving, and ability to tow, I'd say radius arms.

As others have said here there are some good aftermarket solutions like Duff, Bloody Knuckle. Or you could build something, plenty of good builder parts out there. At any rate, if its done right you can get a lot of flex out of a radius arm set up.

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Since I'm stuck in indecision on font axle, I blew apart the NP205. Some fuckwits had been in it before and used a whole tube or RTV. It was a filthy mess and needed a re-seal. While I had the shift rails out I modified the rear for twin stick operation. Bearings OK, it's ready to go back together now. I have gasket kit and plan to use permatex gasket adhesive. What is best choice for bolt threads? Same stuff, RTV, actual thread sealer product, or ?
I'v resealed my 205 twice and it still leaks (seems they all do) so maybe don't listen to me... but I used a thin RTV layer on all the mating surfaces and permatex thread sealer on the bolts, since most of the holes are not blind, as you have noticed.
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:21 AM   #23 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by PROJECTJUNKIE View Post
Man, I'm looking at your goals and budget, and what you want to use it for, put a tape measure on that super duty you have and consider what a chassis swap on a 6.2 truck could do for you, the 6.2 6spd combo is a beast, before tuning, and it could go together really nice, and have a really versatile finished product
Quote:
Originally Posted by 350TacoZilla View Post
Projectjunkie I really didn't want to be the first one to suggest it but after seeing the old parked next to new that thought ran through my head. Actually that was my thought process after awhile on my project too and how I ended up deciding to do the frame swap. I kept thinking of all the things that needed to be upgraded on the stock drivetrain\frame\suspension and really the only thing that would be retained was the body anyhow, so why not swap to a newer donor and get upgraded axles-brakes-steering-suspension etc but still be able to drive to parts store and get spares in a pinch.
I looked for a long time at a variety of doner trucks for either a complete drivetrain or frame swap including superdutys. The wheel base is 6" shorter on the 72 so not a big deal. I also looked at many frame swapped bumps and while they look OK from the outside, it's just not for me. It's difficult to blend 1960 and 2000+ technology together, well.
Open the hood and it's like 'oh I see what happened here'. Drapes don't match the carpet. She looks good with closes on but when you get home you find quite the surprise!

I agree the 6.2 and more specifically the trans would be a great performer. If The goal was a DD the 6.2 would be the right choice.
I guess I'm after a specific look, I want to keep the old school factory look as much as possible. The old 385 series iron will look at home, with absolute minimum wires, hoses and whatnot. I like the look of the bump instrument cluster, the modern one would look out of place to me.

So really it's a vanity thing. Same curse that complicates my life in many other ways.

I also really like the sound of a big inch push rod motor. The OHC Fords sound good too but not the best fit for a bump. In my terminator cobra, yes.
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72 F-250 Explorer 2WD to 4WD conversion 460, C6, NP205, D60, 10.25
14 F-250 6.7 PSD, CCLB, 37s
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:38 AM   #24 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by zainyD View Post
Wow, nice garage!

You're reasoning behind the C6 seems solid.

With regard to 3-link or radius arm, I don't think you'll be disappointed with either one. If you decide to go with radius arms you may want to consider either set of James Duff extended tubular rarms (they make a spacer for those using D60's with their radius arms) or Bloody Knuckle Garage (formerly Cage Offroad) extended arms which have a bracket that you weld to your axle tube to which the radius arm mounts (very similar to the new 05+ Super Duty axles).
Thanks, I'm glad to be working IN the shop instead of ON the shop. OCD is a bitch!

I had the Duff long arms on my bronco. They were OK but expensive. I'm looking to do links/brackets that I can modify as needed. Also need track bar so the complete kits make some sense at this time.

Almost went with 05+ axles to get the built-in radius arm mounts. As you probably know there are arm kits specifically for these axles.
Decided on the older style as I have freedom to do whatever, get real wheel bearings, and can get 4:10 gears instead of 3.31/3.55 to start with. Down side is the smaller front and rear drum brakes. At this time the truck is disc/drum so makes it easy.
Anyhow thanks for the feedback.
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72 F-250 Explorer 2WD to 4WD conversion 460, C6, NP205, D60, 10.25
14 F-250 6.7 PSD, CCLB, 37s
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Old 03-19-2019, 11:51 AM   #25 (permalink)
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I'd prefer a ZF5 or close-ratio 4spd (T19A) with the 460. Never had an auto I liked....

Be aware the 80s/90s D60s with leafs typically incurs rubbing issues with 35-37" tires on 'normal' offset wheels. It lacks kingpins (more highsteer options), and also the better brakes found 95.5-97.

For coils, I do like the old school radius arm, or the 05+ setup. Seems like the wrong diff to start grafting that stuff onto. A simple link kit and coilovers probably suits that diff best.
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