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Old 04-13-2019, 08:02 PM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by CDA 455 View Post
Side note question:
Are king pins more desirable than ball joints?

IIRC; the answer is yes.


Apparently; '87 to '91 Fords had king pin axles.

I'm wondering if searching for a '91 F-350 dually front axle would be worth it.
Depends

The kingpin design is stronger, but the knuckles are really weak if you just add a high steer arm to the top.

Many people have proven the ball joint axles to be very strong, if not stronger with good ball joints.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:52 AM   #27 (permalink)
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Depends

The kingpin design is stronger, but the knuckles are really weak if you just add a high steer arm to the top.

Many people have proven the ball joint axles to be very strong, if not stronger with good ball joints.
X2.

Most people don't realize Ford used the same ball joints on their axles up until 2012 (maybe 2016) either. Just put a high quality one in there and don't worry about it There are enough macining services for high steer arms that it has become a non-issue.

King pin just has the advantage of easier field service of shafts and joints but that matters none when you break the knuckle itself.
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Old 04-15-2019, 07:36 PM   #28 (permalink)
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X2.

Most people don't realize Ford used the same ball joints on their axles up until 2012 (maybe 2016) either. Just put a high quality one in there and don't worry about it There are enough macining services for high steer arms that it has become a non-issue.

King pin just has the advantage of easier field service of shafts and joints but that matters none when you break the knuckle itself.
That may be, but the spread between the ball joints increased significantly for the 2005+ axles, and even more so on the Super 60. So while the ball joints may be the same, the newer design is much stronger.

That said, I would not hesitate to run an earlier ball joint axle, unless you have a really heavy rig running big tires. I have seen them take a lot of abuse without issue, and I have also seen a broken Kingpin 60 knuckle on a Blazer running 37s. I think in concept that a kingpin design is better, but stock for stock, the kingpin axle doesn't make much of a difference. I think people over-hype kingpin axles.
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Old 04-15-2019, 08:28 PM   #29 (permalink)
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That may be, but the spread between the ball joints increased significantly for the 2005+ axles, and even more so on the Super 60. So while the ball joints may be the same, the newer design is much stronger.

That said, I would not hesitate to run an earlier ball joint axle, unless you have a really heavy rig running big tires. I have seen them take a lot of abuse without issue, and I have also seen a broken Kingpin 60 knuckle on a Blazer running 37s. I think in concept that a kingpin design is better, but stock for stock, the kingpin axle doesn't make much of a difference. I think people over-hype kingpin axles.
Oh, please don't take my statement as saying the '05+ axles are the same as the older. That is the direct opposite of what I'm trying to convey. The argument gets even more favorable for ball joint past that date, especially with the introduction of the super 60. And yes, I think kingpin is wayyy overhyped, but most people have caught on to that at this point.

I have '94 ball joint axles under my truck and I don't doubt their strength in the slightest, but there are days I wish I had a set of '05 axles under the thing. The kingpin/balljoint argument is outdated as is the unit bearing argument. The unit bearings on the '05+ are so much bigger and hold so much weight from the factory, that it blows my mind anybody is concerned running them under a little 4000 lb. Jeep. Dudes in 12K+ lb. service trucks are beating the fuck out of these things on a regular basis.

Years have passed and we've figured out that the '78-79 and '85-91 kingpin axles aren't the end all, be all front axles. They are however still pretty great, but nobody should be paying a hefty premium for one anymore in my opinion. Well, maybe if you need that centered diff of the '78-9. I wouldn't though.
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Old 04-15-2019, 10:31 PM   #30 (permalink)
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I ended up with a dually Sterling under the back of my truck and the fucking thing is wiiiiiiiiiiiide. I originally had a semi float SRW Sterling in it with spacers to match the 69.25 WMS of the front D60. After some poor math, we put the dually Sterling in and it wasn't after it was buttoned up that I realized it has a 72.50 WMS. So now I have 1.75" spacers on the front, which I'm not totally siked about. I'm also on 44" swampers and the thing is noticeably wider on trails. It's gonna take some getting used to but hopefully that little bit of extra width adds some stability since the truck is still kinda tall.
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Old 04-16-2019, 08:17 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I ended up with a dually Sterling under the back of my truck and the fucking thing is wiiiiiiiiiiiide. I originally had a semi float SRW Sterling in it with spacers to match the 69.25 WMS of the front D60. After some poor math, we put the dually Sterling in and it wasn't after it was buttoned up that I realized it has a 72.50 WMS. So now I have 1.75" spacers on the front, which I'm not totally siked about. I'm also on 44" swampers and the thing is noticeably wider on trails. It's gonna take some getting used to but hopefully that little bit of extra width adds some stability since the truck is still kinda tall.
Pics of your set up?


I did some casual measurements on the rear axle area of my Bronco.

It appear the outside width of the Bronco measured at the top of the rear wheelwells is approx. 72" (give or take).


If I were to end up running the HMMV rims, I'd be find with that (72.5" WMS).
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Old 04-16-2019, 05:55 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Big gay mud truck incoming!! It would be a lot better if I didn't insist on running 14" wide wheels
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:46 PM   #33 (permalink)
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Big gay mud truck incoming!! It would be a lot better if I didn't insist on running 14" wide wheels
Dude; that set up looks perfect!

The 'balance' is just right.


Don't change a fuggin' thing!
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Old 04-16-2019, 06:58 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Question 'Non-serviceable Wheel Bearings'

My '99 F-350 SRW front axle had 'non-serviceable wheel bearings'.

Dynatrac came out with a kit to fix this; a '97 wheel bearing set up.


Is Ford still using said axle on current trucks???
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Old 04-19-2019, 01:08 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Dude; that set up looks perfect!

The 'balance' is just right.


Don't change a fuggin' thing!
Thanks, trying to get away from strictly mud and wanna do more all around kinda stuff, but I don't wanna give up my wide 80s look

Ideally the stupid body lift would come off and I'd throw a reverse shackle kit on the front and then call it totally done. Sliders might be nice too, but it's starting to warm up and I wanna get it out this year.
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Old 04-19-2019, 05:44 AM   #36 (permalink)
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My '99 F-350 SRW front axle had 'non-serviceable wheel bearings'.

Dynatrac came out with a kit to fix this; a '97 wheel bearing set up.


Is Ford still using said axle on current trucks???
The unit bearings are plenty adequate. People get hung up on them being non-serviceable, but it is really a non-isslue. One of the original unit bearings lasted over 200,000 miles on my 2000 7.3L which has been on 33" tires most of its life (the other was replaced at some point prior to when I bought the truck at 194,000 miles). I don't drive my truck unless I am using it as a truck (towing, hauling, camping, light offroading, etc.), so the bearings didn't last that long just because the truck drives around empty on the highway all the time.

The Timken Unit bearing I installed cost about $200 and is still going strong ~50,000 miles later. You can buy a lot of unit bearings for what the Dynatrac Free Spin kit costs. Also, the really nice thing about unit bearings is that it makes axle work a whole lot cleaner and easier. I hate packing bearings, and I am always paranoid about getting the wheel bearing preload just right on an older spindle wheel bearing setup. If the non-serviceable thing really scares you, people have found that they can squirt some fresh grease into their unit bearings through the ABS plug hole.

The '99-'04 unit bearings aren't as strong as the '05+ unit bearings and have to be bored out to run 35 spline shafts. I wouldn't worry at all about the '05+ unit bearings, but the '99-'04 unit bearings will hold up fine under lighter vehicles. The people who kill the '99-'04 unit bearings all the time are the guys with really heavy trucks (usually diesel crew cab Superduties) with 35"+ tires and big offsets from stock.

Under your gas Bronco, a '99-'04 axle would most likely hold up just fine, but the '05+ stuff is superior in pretty much every way.

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Old 04-19-2019, 10:12 AM   #37 (permalink)
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They sell adapters that fit where the auto hub vacuum port sits, so you can at least regrease the things down the road.

All the vacuum hubs fuck up and you're going to be manually switching them eventually anyway so why not get them. My dad put Warn hubs on his '99 instead of trying to fix it.
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Old 04-22-2019, 11:32 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Depends

The kingpin design is stronger, but the knuckles are really weak if you just add a high steer arm to the top.

Many people have proven the ball joint axles to be very strong, if not stronger with good ball joints.
Can I safely assume that a set of Reid Racing Ford kingpin knuckles will bolt to the axle?
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Old 04-23-2019, 08:23 AM   #39 (permalink)
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I have a chassis cab dually 10.25 in the back of my rig, and a SRW front, they're perfect as far as width goes. (I'm not a fan of the narrower rear) It looks to me like the chassis cab dually is about 3" wider (1.5" per side) than a SRW pickup axle. As previously mentioned, the spring perches are a little off, but not much.

I'm running re-centered H1's and I cut down the mag inserts, they're definitely not the heavy part of my wheel/tire combo. I love them, they hold air great.
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Old 04-27-2019, 08:50 AM   #40 (permalink)
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I have a chassis cab dually 10.25 in the back of my rig, and a SRW front, they're perfect as far as width goes. (I'm not a fan of the narrower rear) It looks to me like the chassis cab dually is about 3" wider (1.5" per side) than a SRW pickup axle. As previously mentioned, the spring perches are a little off, but not much.

I'm running re-centered H1's and I cut down the mag inserts, they're definitely not the heavy part of my wheel/tire combo. I love them, they hold air great.
I thought it was the opposite?
CC = narrower (narrower frame)

Regular truck frame = wider


You have pic(s) of your CC axle under your rig?
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Old 04-27-2019, 09:00 AM   #41 (permalink)
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Old 04-30-2019, 07:51 AM   #42 (permalink)
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I thought it was the opposite?
CC = narrower (narrower frame)

Regular truck frame = wider


You have pic(s) of your CC axle under your rig?
At one point, you are right - I had an 81 U-Haul truck I parted out, Chassis Cab. The Dana 70 out of that was very narrow. This is an 86 Sterling out of a chassis cab. At some point things switched. I have pics, I'll try to get some posted for you!
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Old 04-30-2019, 08:17 AM   #43 (permalink)
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I guess I don't have any direct head-on or rear forward shots to show the comparison, but here's a few pics to get an idea. I guess the one on my trailer is the "best" representation since you can kinda see where the tires are on the deck in relation to each other.

Looking at it, to me it looks perfect with the CC rear and SRW front.
You could definitely see the width difference on my Bronco with the same front axle and a Pickup SRW rear.
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Old 04-30-2019, 12:15 PM   #44 (permalink)
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I have a chassis cab dually 10.25 in the back of my rig, and a SRW front, they're perfect as far as width goes. (I'm not a fan of the narrower rear) It looks to me like the chassis cab dually is about 3" wider (1.5" per side) than a SRW pickup axle. As previously mentioned, the spring perches are a little off, but not much.

I'm running re-centered H1's and I cut down the mag inserts, they're definitely not the heavy part of my wheel/tire combo. I love them, they hold air great.
As far as sterlings go, SRW axles are the same WMS as CC dually axles. The CC springs have 2.5" spring pads. Either you have spacers on there that you missed or there's some placebo effect going on.
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Old 05-01-2019, 06:48 AM   #45 (permalink)
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As far as sterlings go, SRW axles are the same WMS as CC dually axles. The CC springs have 2.5" spring pads. Either you have spacers on there that you missed or there's some placebo effect going on.
So, I pulled shafts out of a SRW Pickup axle last night and compared them to my spares for my Rig for a Chassis Cab Dually rear. The driver side shafts were the same length. The passenger side shaft on the CC Dually axle was longer by an inch than the SRW Pickup axle. 35.75" and 34.75" respectively. I guess this logic makes sense for manufacturing purposes, and Ford must have really needed that extra .5" on each side...

To clarify, the CC Dually is wider, albeit not much wider, but it is wider.
Would hate for someone to buy the wrong spares at a junkyard and it not fit.
Pics below.
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Old 05-01-2019, 07:37 AM   #46 (permalink)
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So, I pulled shafts out of a SRW Pickup axle last night and compared them to my spares for my Rig for a Chassis Cab Dually rear. The driver side shafts were the same length. The passenger side shaft on the CC Dually axle was longer by an inch than the SRW Pickup axle. 35.75" and 34.75" respectively. I guess this logic makes sense for manufacturing purposes, and Ford must have really needed that extra .5" on each side...

To clarify, the CC Dually is wider, albeit not much wider, but it is wider.
Would hate for someone to buy the wrong spares at a junkyard and it not fit.
Pics below.
And the regular truck rear dually axle is wider than the CC rear dually axle; correct?
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:06 AM   #47 (permalink)
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I like the axle width set up here.
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Old 05-01-2019, 08:56 AM   #48 (permalink)
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So, I pulled shafts out of a SRW Pickup axle last night and compared them to my spares for my Rig for a Chassis Cab Dually rear. The driver side shafts were the same length. The passenger side shaft on the CC Dually axle was longer by an inch than the SRW Pickup axle. 35.75" and 34.75" respectively. I guess this logic makes sense for manufacturing purposes, and Ford must have really needed that extra .5" on each side...

To clarify, the CC Dually is wider, albeit not much wider, but it is wider.
Would hate for someone to buy the wrong spares at a junkyard and it not fit.
Pics below.
Interesting, everything I've read says they're the same WMS.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:04 AM   #49 (permalink)
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And the regular truck rear dually axle is wider than the CC rear dually axle; correct?
Yes, quite a bit wider, I can get you a measurement if you need, I have one sitting next to the garage.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:09 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Interesting, everything I've read says they're the same WMS.
I had heard/thought that before too.
When I set out putting my rig together, I just kept the axle that was in it being a chassis cab thinking it's the same thing except for the spring pads and shock mounts and noticed some differences with the position of the backing plates for the dually drums, and the axle shafts not being the same.
Never measured at the time, or compared shafts closely.

Luckily I've not been cross country on a wheeling trip and had to use a spare shaft that wasn't the right one...

When I put the driver side shafts next to each other yesterday, they were very close, I just chalked up the minor difference to manufacturing tolerance.
I'd assume they'd interchange no problem.
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