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Old 09-24-2019, 08:00 PM   #1 (permalink)
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First post

He all, first post from a long time reader, And here is what it bringing to the table.

1992 Flareside F150 4.9L M5OD 4x4 w/ moonroof
Bought the truck 8 years ago stock with 4" rancho lift and 33's. Did some light wheeling in Vegas and northern California, mudding whenever it was present. It was my daily for 5 years, over the past 3 she's been on the backburner due to family, kids, funds and everything else that comes with it. Now here we are today, I'm in the midst of my long time plans.

So far I've removed everything from the frame down ( bye bye TTB 44 and 8.8. ) Dodge Dana 60 front 70 rearPosi 4:10 gears( from 94.5 ram 2500 w/ Cummins) it their place. Don't judge yet, yes I know it's Low pinion CAD. Front is a 3 link w/ panhard, 2"x.25" wall DOM links with 1.25" Currie Johnny joints at the axle, 1.25" B4WD Enduro joints at the frame, 1.5"x .25" wall steering with 7/8 joints, GM 1ton high angle rod end at the pitman arm. Sitting on 14" FOA coilovers for much up. Kings are coming. Rear is sitting on Chevy 57" suburban springs ( modified pack ) on 35's

To Do List: - Clearance engine crossmember and make removable. Will make new crossmember if needed
- Mount hoops and crossover/ tie in bar
- 5"x3"x.25" angle iron for lower link mounts, and integrated trans mount crossmember.
- 1350 yokes for BW1356, hack n tap rear SYE
- Driveshafts
-Brake lines
-CAD delete with 35 spline
-Bumpers
- ECT

Next step - get the truck driving again, work out the bugs, as they come.
First post, first forum and all. Thanks guys
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92 F150 4.9L 5 Spd 4x4
Dana 60F/70R 4:10
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Old 09-24-2019, 09:27 PM   #2 (permalink)
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sounds pretty nice

what size and kind of tires are you aiming for?
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Old 09-25-2019, 07:56 AM   #3 (permalink)
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I got a set of 35x12.5x17Rwith wheels from my buddy for cheap, Ill run those for now. After i go 35 spline if i can clear 37s ill do it so long as there are no clearance issues or rubbing. I dont want to do any trimming of the fenders.
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Old 09-25-2019, 10:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
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Definitely post up some pictures of the build, it sounds interesting.

As for the tires, 35s are rediculously small for full width one tons. You'll be dragging diffs and carrying a bunch of extra weight to run tires you could have run fairly reliably on your original axles.

I would not hesitate to run 37s on those axles as is; in fact, I wouldn't run anything smaller personally. I have seen stock 30 spline outers hold up pretty well to 40s under jeeps as long as you don't drive like you are in a MadRam11 video.
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Old 09-25-2019, 11:21 AM   #5 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by '84 Bronco II View Post
Definitely post up some pictures of the build, it sounds interesting.

As for the tires, 35s are rediculously small for full width one tons. You'll be dragging diffs and carrying a bunch of extra weight to run tires you could have run fairly reliably on your original axles.

I would not hesitate to run 37s on those axles as is; in fact, I wouldn't run anything smaller personally. I have seen stock 30 spline outers hold up pretty well to 40s under jeeps as long as you don't drive like you are in a MadRam11 video.
I could be wrong, but I think he's talking about the 30 spline Dodge 60 INners... I believe those axles have a weird 30spline inner shaft.
To your point tho, yes, the 30 spline outers will put up with some crap up to ~40's and a locker.
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Old 09-25-2019, 01:02 PM   #6 (permalink)
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I could be wrong, but I think he's talking about the 30 spline Dodge 60 INners... I believe those axles have a weird 30spline inner shaft.
To your point tho, yes, the 30 spline outers will put up with some crap up to ~40's and a locker.
I admittedly am not very familiar with Dodge Dana 60s, so maybe they are pretty weak in stock form, but I would imagine that an axle that could hold up to a cummins in a 3/4 ton truck could hold up reasonably well to at least 37s in a half ton with a gas 6 cylinder
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Old 09-25-2019, 03:06 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by '84 Bronco II View Post
I admittedly am not very familiar with Dodge Dana 60s, so maybe they are pretty weak in stock form, but I would imagine that an axle that could hold up to a cummins in a 3/4 ton truck could hold up reasonably well to at least 37s in a half ton with a gas 6 cylinder
One would think.
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Old 09-25-2019, 06:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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yeah.....it will be ok....same with the 50 under a ranger or a jeep....
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Old 09-26-2019, 06:23 AM   #9 (permalink)
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So I did a little reading in the '94+ Dodge Dana 60s, and really, the only weak point (besides being low pinion like the Chevy axles) is the 32 spline inner axles which are much more closely matched to the outer shaft strength unlike the 35 spline Dana 60s. It is still stronger in every way than a Dana 44 and probably pretty comparable to a Superduty Dana 50. I wouldn't hesitate to run it with 37s as is, and if it breaks, then go ahead and upgrade it. I don't think it is worth trying to find a better Dana 60 for your intended use.

For what it's worth, I run 38" XMLs (~140lbs a piece on steel wheels ) on my beater Bronco II with 5.0L power and an NP435 and I haven't broken anything on my bone stock welded '79 F250 Dana 44. I don't drive like I am sponsored though, and realize that I am pushing the limits.
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Old 09-30-2019, 03:59 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Thanks for the input, ill take whatever i can get. Since i have the 35s im gonna run them, when they wear out ill find out if i can clear bigger tires without cutting fenders. Today im hitting a local Yard to find some 95'-97' Ford D60 for the hub conversion and dual piston brakes, ill be gathering parts to go 35 spline. Reading more and finding out what'll work best with the budget and intended use. I want to keep in streetable but capable off road. nothing extreme.

Ill get some pics together and once i figure out how to post pics ill show you guys what i have going on .. Thanks again
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Dana 60F/70R 4:10
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Old 09-30-2019, 04:20 PM   #11 (permalink)
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92 F150 4.9L 5 Spd 4x4
Dana 60F/70R 4:10

Last edited by 92Flareside150; 10-25-2019 at 08:35 AM.
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Old 10-01-2019, 06:51 PM   #12 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by 92Flareside150 View Post
Thanks for the input, ill take whatever i can get. Since i have the 35s im gonna run them, when they wear out ill find out if i can clear bigger tires without cutting fenders. Today im hitting a local Yard to find some 95'-97' Ford D60 for the hub conversion and dual piston brakes, ill be gathering parts to go 35 spline. Reading more and finding out what'll work best with the budget and intended use. I want to keep in streetable but capable off road. nothing extreme.

Ill get some pics together and once i figure out how to post pics ill show you guys what i have going on .. Thanks again
My advice is if you find a Ford axle, just take the whole damn thing. It would be a shame to bastardize a Ford axle to improve a Dodge axle.
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Old 10-01-2019, 09:00 PM   #13 (permalink)
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I hear you on that one, only reason I'm checking this yard in particular is they have a reputation for cutting axles up for parts or crushing the vehicle if the turnaround is slow. No luck though, only ttb 50s.
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Old 10-03-2019, 09:20 PM   #14 (permalink)
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Calling all link suspension savvy guys!
I've been playing with this for a few days and this is what I've come up with so far for my 3link front
http://imgur.com/a/P4H5eJI
I spent what was left of my afternoon laying under the truck tacking a couple brackets in place near my Max limits, taking measurements of everything that my interfere. OBS guys you know how tight on space these are for this setup, but I know you guys have done it, I've studied of free of your builds, however I can't find any specs/blueprints. COG is estimated at top trans bolt, calculating at on road psi, truck will see 50/50 on/off-road.
I have room to move:
Lowers @ axle maybe an inch because of tire rub
Lowers @ frame outboard about the same and may have room to go up bit it'll be a tight fit.
Upper @ axle left
[email protected] frame up or down 1" and can shorten up to 75% of lower ( 29.25")
I'm mocking up with 14" coilovers with 5-6" of up travel. I'm ordering driveshafts and coilovers after I get these figures dialed in, then finding measurements for limit straps and bumps after.

Again if I'm approaching this out off order or I'm missing something feel free to chime in. I'm open to suggestions and constantly learning.
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Dana 60F/70R 4:10

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Old 10-04-2019, 08:13 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I am not an expert so take this with a grain of salt, but here are my suggestions:

Your anti-squat (really anti-dive in a front application) seems low. I would suggest trying to raise it closer to 100% so your rig won't nose-dive under heavy braking on the street or steep down hills off road.

I understand that the position of the panhard bar is typically driven by clearance and is often a compromise, but you should aim for getting it as flat at ride height and long as possible to minimize lateral axle movement and maintain a reasonable operating angle through the entire range of suspension travel. I would suggest raising the axle end if possible to keep your roll center as close as possible to your CG height to minimize body roll during cornering or off-camber situations. Obviously, your panhard bar should also match your draglink angle and length as closely as possible to prevent bumpsteer throughout your range of suspension travel so that is another consideration. You will probably need high steer on the passenger knuckle to achieve optimal geometry with the 3-link.

Also, you can just embed your pictures from imgur diectly into your posts here on Pirate by using the [img] code in the share links.

Last edited by '84 Bronco II; 10-04-2019 at 08:17 AM.
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Old 10-04-2019, 02:33 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by '84 Bronco II View Post
I am not an expert so take this with a grain of salt, but here are my suggestions:

Your anti-squat (really anti-dive in a front application) seems low. I would suggest trying to raise it closer to 100% so your rig won't nose-dive under heavy braking on the street or steep down hills off road.

I understand that the position of the panhard bar is typically driven by clearance and is often a compromise, but you should aim for getting it as flat at ride height and long as possible to minimize lateral axle movement and maintain a reasonable operating angle through the entire range of suspension travel. I would suggest raising the axle end if possible to keep your roll center as close as possible to your CG height to minimize body roll during cornering or off-camber situations. Obviously, your panhard bar should also match your draglink angle and length as closely as possible to prevent bumpsteer throughout your range of suspension travel so that is another consideration. You will probably need high steer on the passenger knuckle to achieve optimal geometry with the 3-link.

Also, you can just embed your pictures from imgur diectly into your posts here on Pirate by using the [img] code in the share links.
I played with the numbers a bit. Shortened my upper to 29.25 ( 70% of Lowers), Dropped down a hole at the frame bracket, and these are the results.
Anti-Dive = 88.98%
Roll Axis = -1.14*
Roll Center = 25.71"
IC X Axis - 63.87"
IC Z Axis = 20.88"
Question, Couldnt some of the dive be reduced with shock tuning? Or is it better to let the chassis take the braking/acceleration forces and let the shocks handle the terrain alone?
I cant do much about the panhard at this point in time, i have a few ideas for that in the future but for now that will have to work.
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Dana 60F/70R 4:10
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Old 10-04-2019, 06:27 PM   #17 (permalink)
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I played with the numbers a bit. Shortened my upper to 29.25 ( 70% of Lowers), Dropped down a hole at the frame bracket, and these are the results.
Anti-Dive = 88.98%
Roll Axis = -1.14*
Roll Center = 25.71"
IC X Axis - 63.87"
IC Z Axis = 20.88"
Question, Couldnt some of the dive be reduced with shock tuning? Or is it better to let the chassis take the braking/acceleration forces and let the shocks handle the terrain alone?
I cant do much about the panhard at this point in time, i have a few ideas for that in the future but for now that will have to work.
That looks pretty decent to me. You don't need to hit exactly 100%, and you definitely don't want to go over 100%. Given your CG height is a guess anyways, I would call it good.

Ideally, you don't want to use the springs and damping as a band-aid for poor geometry. For example, lets say you are hauling ass and come up on a really rough section and jump hard on the brakes to slow down. If you have very little anti-dive, your suspension will compress a lot and leave very little additional compression to soak up the bumps. You can use stiffer springs/valving to mitigate the dive, but then your truck will be a lot harsher all the time. In a low speed scenario where you are say descending a very steep spot in a controlled manner, the stiffer valving wont really help. It will squat the front a lot and you will lose stability unless you are again running stiff springs that will ride like shit and rob you of flex.

With good suspension geometry and well tuned damping, you can run really soft springs which will ride, flex, and be stable off road.
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Old 10-05-2019, 06:58 AM   #18 (permalink)
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I hear you on that one, only reason I'm checking this yard in particular is they have a reputation for cutting axles up for parts or crushing the vehicle if the turnaround is slow. No luck though, only ttb 50s.
That ttb 50 stuff is the same stuff you need for converting a dodge axle to free spin on the dodge knuckles, you'll need to buy outer shafts, big thread in dodge section about it
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Old 10-11-2019, 04:02 PM   #19 (permalink)
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Finally got power back after PG&E's lame power shut down. Over the last week i pulled the front axle out from under the truck and made part of my Truss over the diff. Gonna come off the sides to the knuckles.




Now with some room to work underneath ill start working on trimming the engine crossmember and reinforcing it. The goal is to gain any and all available uptravel and make it removable to be able to remove the oilpan when needed.
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Old 10-11-2019, 06:24 PM   #20 (permalink)
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those pics are kinda small.. makes it hard to see anything

LOL
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Old 10-25-2019, 07:54 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Still getting things done a little at a time, I only have a couple hours a week to work on it. Last weekend i built and welded up the rest of the truss, set up my 10 degree combo lower link mounts on the axle. Got my my engine crossmember cut out, still figuring out how i want to build the new bolt in section. Got started on building my new Trans crossmember that my fame side lower link mounts will tie in too. With the axle set at full bump its looking like ill be able to fit 16" 2.5 Kings with 1" of shaft showing, 6" showing at ride height. Ill try and get some pictures together this week.
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