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Old 05-04-2018, 10:49 PM   #251 (permalink)
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Any other inputs on this subject?
Yep, I was fortunate enough to get hooked up with Jamar Performance. Zero complaints about brakes now. All Jamar parts, big 6 piston Calipers, 14" vented rotors, pedal set up and their 1' MC.

I went with a mild pad to save the rotors. The brakes work great with my heavy rig and heavy 42's. I have never had brake fade, and have never wished I had more brake. Great pedal feel.

The trade off is cost,Took some work to fabricate the mounts, very tight clearance between wheel and caliper, Pedal assemble is huge.

well worth all the work. Their stuff is second to none. I was more than fortunate to partner with them.

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Old 05-04-2018, 11:19 PM   #252 (permalink)
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Why do most all Ultra4 rigs have manual brakes? I know vacuum boosters are ugly, and high compression motors may not have enough vaccum. But why not hydro boost?

I drove a 4800 car last year, mild LS1, had manual brakes. We even changed out all calipers away from the D52s to quad pistons. Couldn't even stop the rig in 4low. They sucked. If it were my car I would have added a vacuum booster.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:33 PM   #253 (permalink)
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Space, weight and brakes only slow ya down!

6 piston calipers seem to do the trick on the SpiderTrax axles I've got some experience with, the 4 pistons weren't enough.
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Old 05-04-2018, 11:38 PM   #254 (permalink)
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Why do most all Ultra4 rigs have manual brakes? I know vacuum boosters are ugly, and high compression motors may not have enough vaccum. But why not hydro boost?

I drove a 4800 car last year, mild LS1, had manual brakes. We even changed out all calipers away from the D52s to quad pistons. Couldn't even stop the rig in 4low. They sucked. If it were my car I would have added a vacuum booster.
I wonít build one without hydroboost, Iím not a fan of the manual pedal setup. I run willwood calipers and rotors with a hydroboost.
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Old 05-05-2018, 09:16 AM   #255 (permalink)
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They sucked. If it were my car I would have added a vacuum booster.
the system needs to be matched to work well, takes just a little bit of planning
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Old 05-05-2018, 10:28 AM   #256 (permalink)
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the system needs to be matched to work well, takes just a little bit of planning
A well thought out manual setup with quality parts will get you around 1200 PSI to the line at best...which is on par with the low average of most vacuum boost setups. A ported hydroboost will get you closer to 2200-2700+ PSI.

The lower price point to get a higher output is what sold me on the hydroboost.

You can also use a slave cylinder to work with a hydroboost unit mounted remotely if space f-r is a constraint...this is worked into quite a few TT's.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:17 PM   #257 (permalink)
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Yep, I was fortunate enough to get hooked up with Jamar Performance. Zero complaints about brakes now. All Jamar parts, big 6 piston Calipers, 14" vented rotors, pedal set up and their 1' MC.

I went with a mild pad to save the rotors. The brakes work great with my heavy rig and heavy 42's. I have never had brake fade, and have never wished I had more brake. Great pedal feel.

The trade off is cost,Took some work to fabricate the mounts, very tight clearance between wheel and caliper, Pedal assemble is huge.

well worth all the work. Their stuff is second to none. I was more than fortunate to partner with them.

Yoder
I've been having some difficulty navigating their website, any chance you have or could post the specifics? Pedal ratio, lever length, piston size in the calipers and what are you running for rear brakes?

nice looking setup i'm not looking to reverse engineer it and steal all the intellectual property, but i'd like to see if putting some math to it and pulling out some hard numbers would result in anything relatable to anything else. i.e. how much final rotor torque are you achieving etc.
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:21 PM   #258 (permalink)
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A well thought out manual setup with quality parts will get you around 1200 PSI to the line at best...which is on par with the low average of most vacuum boost setups. A ported hydroboost will get you closer to 2200-2700+ PSI.

The lower price point to get a higher output is what sold me on the hydroboost.

You can also use a slave cylinder to work with a hydroboost unit mounted remotely if space f-r is a constraint...this is worked into quite a few TT's.
absolutely, hydroboost has serious benefits and the cost isn't even very extravagant these days.

running full hydro steering and a hydro boost brake setup is there any significant effect on steering while under braking or does the reserve capacity of the brake booster generally last enough that the pump isn't trying to fill two seperate systes at once and cause unpredictable steering?
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Old 05-05-2018, 12:46 PM   #259 (permalink)
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absolutely, hydroboost has serious benefits and the cost isn't even very extravagant these days.

running full hydro steering and a hydro boost brake setup is there any significant effect on steering while under braking or does the reserve capacity of the brake booster generally last enough that the pump isn't trying to fill two seperate systes at once and cause unpredictable steering?
Could add an accumulator to help respond to spikes in demand......
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Old 05-05-2018, 07:33 PM   #260 (permalink)
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I had a higher end trail buggy with hydroboost brakes. It used a dedicated ps pump to supply it, best brakes I've ever had, in any vehicle besides a rzr. I don't remember exact calipers, pedal ratio, or rotors, but didn't have exotic components.
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Old 05-08-2018, 11:10 PM   #261 (permalink)
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This is hands down the baddest car out there right now. I was blown away at how smooth and stable it is at speed. 100mph and it's one hand on wheel like driving down the freeway. But what really amazed me is how well it does in the rocks. It goes through the rocks at speed and doesn't beat you up.
i never thought i would say it, but portal'd ifs/irs will be the next step. ill be curious to see how the next generation of this style of car does in the hands of the next generation of racer. soonerthanyouthinkiftherumorsaretrue
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Old 05-09-2018, 10:12 AM   #262 (permalink)
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What about suspension travel? How much is too much?

Would the ultimate ultra4 car have 40+ inches of travel front and rear (assuming there was a way to make ujoints live and keep all the angles and wheel recession ok)?
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Old 05-09-2018, 12:54 PM   #263 (permalink)
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Looking for suggestions on converter stall for a semi-built 4L60E with slightly warmed up 5.3. Seen 2600 but not sure how well that does. Mostly cruising through the dunes and fast desert sections, hit rocks in between. Is there a known staple for this kind of thing?
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:10 PM   #264 (permalink)
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Looking for suggestions on converter stall for a semi-built 4L60E with slightly warmed up 5.3. Seen 2600 but not sure how well that does. Mostly cruising through the dunes and fast desert sections, hit rocks in between. Is there a known staple for this kind of thing?
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Old 05-10-2018, 08:23 PM   #265 (permalink)
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everything Iíve found says 1600-3000 so Iím going to stick with stock, 1600-1800.
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Old 05-10-2018, 10:45 PM   #266 (permalink)
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What about suspension travel? How much is too much?

Would the ultimate ultra4 car have 40+ inches of travel front and rear (assuming there was a way to make ujoints live and keep all the angles and wheel recession ok)?
the fast SA dudes are running a 14” shock attached to the axle in the front and 14” coilover with a 1.5-2 motion ratio. so mid teens in the front and low to mid 20s in the rear.

according to a quick google scherer’s winning car is 20 in the front and 30 in the rear. not sure how accurate that rear number is. the axle swing during articulation is significant.

id argue that any more than mid 20s in the rear is too much
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:36 AM   #267 (permalink)
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the system needs to be matched to work well, takes just a little bit of planning
My 911 had non-assisted brakes and it would suck your eyeballs out if you stood on them. But that was on a 2700lb car with 16" lightweight forged wheels and lo-pro tires.

A U4 has got a phenomenal amount of rotating inertia it's got to slow, in addition to maybe 5000lbs of weight all in. I just don't see how you could get enough leverage to do it without assist.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:58 AM   #268 (permalink)
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My 911 had non-assisted brakes and it would suck your eyeballs out if you stood on them. But that was on a 2700lb car with 16" lightweight forged wheels and lo-pro tires.

A U4 has got a phenomenal amount of rotating inertia it's got to slow, in addition to maybe 5000lbs of weight all in. I just don't see how you could get enough leverage to do it without assist.
Well, basically you've got to match your pedal lever ratio up with a master cylinder that can get you ~2000 psi line pressure while being the largest piston diameter that you can comfortably move, depending on available space.

absolutely doable, just takes a little bit more space and planning than using boost. advantage being sprung weight savings very predictable and consistent pedal feel.

you don't need to believe me, just take a look a couple posts up of the setup that yoder posted of his setup
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Old 05-11-2018, 12:43 PM   #269 (permalink)
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everything Iíve found says 1600-3000 so Iím going to stick with stock, 1600-1800.
and you will hate it. I have 2200 now, heading to 3k soon
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Old 05-11-2018, 02:27 PM   #270 (permalink)
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and you will hate it. I have 2200 now, heading to 3k soon
Well shit. What's the specs of your build? I am running a 5.3 LM7 with LS1 intake/rail/TB and will put in a mild cam. Tune by Wayne at 150tunes. Shorty block hugger heads, somewhat built 4L60E going in with chromo sunshell, beefed up 3-4 clutches, Corvette servo, etc. etc. and mostly do desert and dunes trips. 1 ton axles with 5.14s and 37s, locked up. Occasionally crawl around at KOH but not much besides that. I'll probably swap the rear Detroit for an ARB later on.
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Old 05-11-2018, 03:08 PM   #271 (permalink)
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Well shit. What's the specs of your build? I am running a 5.3 LM7 with LS1 intake/rail/TB and will put in a mild cam. Tune by Wayne at 150tunes. Shorty block hugger heads, somewhat built 4L60E going in with chromo sunshell, beefed up 3-4 clutches, Corvette servo, etc. etc. and mostly do desert and dunes trips. 1 ton axles with 5.14s and 37s, locked up. Occasionally crawl around at KOH but not much besides that. I'll probably swap the rear Detroit for an ARB later on.
You're going to want something close to 2800
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:55 PM   #272 (permalink)
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Trevin, my stock 6.0 has a 2300. I like it.
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Old 05-12-2018, 08:47 AM   #273 (permalink)
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Well shit. What's the specs of your build? I am running a 5.3 LM7 with LS1 intake/rail/TB and will put in a mild cam. Tune by Wayne at 150tunes. Shorty block hugger heads, somewhat built 4L60E going in with chromo sunshell, beefed up 3-4 clutches, Corvette servo, etc. etc. and mostly do desert and dunes trips. 1 ton axles with 5.14s and 37s, locked up. Occasionally crawl around at KOH but not much besides that. I'll probably swap the rear Detroit for an ARB later on.
I just went to a 3k and love it. Stock 6.0/6L80. I plan on adding a cam whenever I have time to pull the motor out. Launches hard now out of corners now instead of lugging out of them and I can actually stop in low range without having to be in neutral. Doesnt seem to be too loose crawling and doesn't seem to run any hotter either.

Oh and those block hugger headers are a bad choice if you want to put in a cam and make any kind of power. The hookers everyone on here loves are actually smaller than factory manifolds.
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Old 05-12-2018, 12:56 PM   #274 (permalink)
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I'll go ahead and be Capt. Obvious here.

Call whomever you're thinking of getting a converter from, give them your specs, use and what you want out of it. Converter guys are pretty good at matching converters to vehicles/use.

Any difference in weight or HP will make a big change in where a converter flashes between two rigs.
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Old 05-14-2018, 08:14 AM   #275 (permalink)
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You're going to want something close to 2800
Thanks Mike.

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Trevin, my stock 6.0 has a 2300. I like it.
Thanks Paul, I'll have to drive yours soon.

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I just went to a 3k and love it. Stock 6.0/6L80. I plan on adding a cam whenever I have time to pull the motor out. Launches hard now out of corners now instead of lugging out of them and I can actually stop in low range without having to be in neutral. Doesnt seem to be too loose crawling and doesn't seem to run any hotter either.

Oh and those block hugger headers are a bad choice if you want to put in a cam and make any kind of power. The hookers everyone on here loves are actually smaller than factory manifolds.
That sounds like what I'm looking to achieve. I wish I had gone with the 6.0/6L80, much better powertrain and easier to pair with a 2.0 Atlas and keep the rig in high range with a decent first gear crawl.

No choice on the block hugger headers. Primaries are 1-5/8" and I used 2-1/2" collectors with a Y pipe to single 3". Not much space under a Jeep.

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I'll go ahead and be Capt. Obvious here.

Call whomever you're thinking of getting a converter from, give them your specs, use and what you want out of it. Converter guys are pretty good at matching converters to vehicles/use.

Any difference in weight or HP will make a big change in where a converter flashes between two rigs.
Unfortunately every shop I've called has a different answer. None have asked specific questions on weight, axles, gearing, etc. so I have zero confidence in their recommendations. That's why I came here.
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