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Old 05-06-2012, 08:51 AM   #1 (permalink)
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U4 t400

I am not having the longevity out of my C4 that I would like to see. It is built about as far as it can go for the issues I am having. I have chosen to go with a T400 now. My builder is suggesting a 34 element sprag , Full Manual VB. Just adding good frictions and Kevlar bands.


I have compression braking now and I like it a LOT. I am currently around 450hp @ the crank in a 4000# car with 5.13's and 38's. Most of the internet info I find is drag racing oriented. I am already doing an ultrabell and adaptor to got to my 5.8 Ford motor. I would like to build it to see 550-600 hp @ the crank max , but pretty sure I will stay near 500 with my next upgrade because the east coast racing simply doesn't see the wide open stretches that are seen out west. In tight quarters the big power seems to hurt more than anything from lack of available traction......

What are the other racers running and what other mods might you guys suggest?
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Last edited by broncolou; 05-06-2012 at 08:55 AM.
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Old 05-06-2012, 09:11 AM   #2 (permalink)
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It all depends on your budget. I would upgrade your forward hub. It sucks when yours fails IN the 2nd pit at KOH. They are a great transmission until they get used in a race car. I have been chasing weak links in mine for years. I have Zero plastics in mine, bushinged center support, larger 300m input shaft, FM valve body. Forged forward hub, 34 element sprag, the latest is a twisted intermediate shaft. To upgrade that your looking at $300 and up.

Call Rancho Drivetrain and ask for a full TT TH400.....$20k.
It will be great when Reid gets their new case out as it will help with many things.

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Old 05-06-2012, 10:52 AM   #3 (permalink)
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We use a TH400 from the guys at Maximum offroad race transmissions. There number is 909-528-8901.
They are spendy with all the upgrades, but are the only trans company we could find that understand out needs. Ask for Chris Gardner, tell him we refered you.

One of the neat things they do is move the return cooler line down the case to lube the planetary like a 4l80. They also spec -8 cooler feed and return lines. We run a 550hp rig that weighs in at 5500 in race trim, and run 180 trans temps or lower.
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Old 05-06-2012, 01:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Is this John Boring posting as broncolou
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:00 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Is the FWD hub the same as the direct drum? I have heard both Miller/Woodson broke inputs bombing the desert during high load 3rd gear shifts...... still debating that one for right now.


John already had 550 hp..... he was crazy for trying to run that much power thru a C4 in an U4 rig..... My truck was pretty bulletproof @ 300ish HP. Now that I have had a taste of some HP ... I WANT MORE!!!!!!! Upgrading the supporting components is proving to be expensive.....
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Old 05-06-2012, 04:28 PM   #6 (permalink)
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The forward hub is what the input shaft splines into.
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Old 05-07-2012, 04:10 AM   #7 (permalink)
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bump before leaving for work......
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Old 05-07-2012, 07:52 AM   #8 (permalink)
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Let me know when you're ready to unload that trusty C4. I'm not sure I want it, it seems cursed.

I'll check and see what my guy did to Tim's 400. He knows our sport pretty well.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:23 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Lou,

FWIW, I am runnning 450ish hp and have a pretty stock T-400 that Randy at Jimmy's built and have not had any problems yet other than heat buildup from running a small, torque converter. I changed the converter out and it fixed it. I try to be pretty easy on shock loading parts and I also dont let the trans bog, I keep it revved pretty good. I would like to do a billet converter and some internal upgrades but so far things are holding up good.
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Old 05-07-2012, 08:27 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Silly question maybe, but why not go with a C6?
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Old 05-08-2012, 06:51 AM   #11 (permalink)
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X2....? Why not a C6 ?
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Old 05-08-2012, 08:03 AM   #12 (permalink)
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+1 more for why not a C6... if you're running a Ford engine anyway, it'd be a fair bit easier and probably a lot cheaper than a TH400, for basically the same strength.

I know I've taken out a couple of C6's over the last ten or so years, but really can't blame either on the trans itself.

One, I dropped the car on a rock... on the bell. Shattered it full circle. I guess maybe an Ultrabell or similar might have survived that, or might have contained it to where all I had to buy was a bell instead of a case, but... duh... don't drop cars on pointy rocks without adequate skid plates.

The other, similar to the first, crushed the belly pan until it crushed the trans pan... pushing the pickup tube through the filter and up into the valvebody, bending the valvebody. Again... don't drop cars on pointy rocks without adequate skid plates. Yep, I'm a slow learner.

In the first case, a new trans case was needed; the second, a new valvebody fixed it up.

In both cases, improved skid plates and a little thinking resolved the issues.

Regardless, curious as to an advantage to the TH400 vs. the C6, particularly as I fight with a Ford EFI that refuses to behave.
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Old 05-08-2012, 10:16 AM   #13 (permalink)
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The adaptor for the C6 will wind up 4+" longer and I want a smaller package. There are waaay more people doing this with a T400 and I believe it is better supported for our sport. If they did a shorty C6 I would be all over it but Vic said there is no plans/market for it.....
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Old 05-08-2012, 11:15 AM   #14 (permalink)
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The adaptor for the C6 will wind up 4+" longer and I want a smaller package. There are waaay more people doing this with a T400 and I believe it is better supported for our sport. If they did a shorty C6 I would be all over it but Vic said there is no plans/market for it.....
Too bad, because I think a C6 with the low gear set from an E4OD is a good option. They are notorious power hogs, but I don't think any worse than a T400.
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Old 05-09-2012, 04:26 AM   #15 (permalink)
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So is anyone else running compression braking?
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Old 05-09-2012, 08:18 AM   #16 (permalink)
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So is anyone else running compression braking?
Decker is, it sucks...Especially with a RMVB. Without it, I can go from 3 to N in Low at 35+ and shift to high without slowing down. Its a huge adv. when you get use to it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 09:38 AM   #17 (permalink)
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I do not have it and really like it without.

Also you build more heat and add more abuse to the plates with it.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:04 AM   #18 (permalink)
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My Th400 has no compression braking, and I don't miss it a bit.
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Old 05-09-2012, 10:42 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I like running without for the reasons Erik and Geoff mentioned, it's nice to let the drivelines coast sometimes.
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Old 05-09-2012, 02:29 PM   #20 (permalink)
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I firmly believe heat is primarily from poor torque converter sizing. Slipping clutches and bands build heat but not a ton compared to poor fluid coupling in the converter....... I have been racing and wheeling with an 8.5" convertor and compression braking for 3 years and it doesn't get over 200* when everything is right, most of the time she runs at 180=/-.
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Old 05-09-2012, 03:07 PM   #21 (permalink)
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I firmly believe heat is primarily from poor torque converter sizing. Slipping clutches and bands build heat but not a ton compared to poor fluid coupling in the converter....... I have been racing and wheeling with an 8.5" convertor and compression braking for 3 years and it doesn't get over 200* when everything is right, most of the time she runs at 180=/-.
Is this temperature measured at the pan?
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Old 05-09-2012, 05:00 PM   #22 (permalink)
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I was told by my Tranny builder to always measure temp as its coming out of the tranny that way you will know right away if something is going wrong! If you measure after the cooler on the way back you will not get an accurate number due to cooler efficiency. And if you measure it at the pan by the time your gauge says your hot its too late!
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as well as pirate4x4!!\
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Old 05-09-2012, 06:05 PM   #23 (permalink)
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Pan measurements. I know it is an average. It is what the supply side of the pump is seeing......i read till I was blue in the face on placement. It seemed split 50/50 on pan/outlet side of cooler lines. These temps are under race conditions as well......
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Last edited by broncolou; 05-09-2012 at 06:06 PM.
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Old 08-03-2012, 12:36 PM   #24 (permalink)
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Endplay?

Does anyone have suggestions on front endplay? Original builder like .035 and new builder wants to do closer to .015 Might have missed a decimal point...
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Old 08-03-2012, 01:09 PM   #25 (permalink)
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You are used to a lot of rear........end play so I would go on the tight side so it lasts
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