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would you run this r&p? 14 bolt, out 0.010

2K views 19 replies 9 participants last post by  waynehartwig 
#1 · (Edited)
long story short. geared the 14 bolt to 5.38's, at first i noticed the runout was around .010 out on the side of the ring gear. figured there might be some shit stuck behind the ring. didnt really find much, hand sanded both surfaces and through it back together. touqed it to spec and the runout on the side of the ring was about .005 now. but backlash read a little over 0.002 at the lowest and .012 or .013 on the high side... way high variance according to the billvista write up. he says .003-.012 with a max variance of .002.

i ended up just throwing it all back together cause i was tired of fucking with it, im not koh racing or anything but would i be fine running this?

i changed pinion shim after this pic but it made it look a LITTLE better but not much. still has same style pattern on coast and drive.
and these where USED gears when i got them, so im not sure if that could be giving me problems( improper setup from the start or whatnot)
and oddly enough with the huge variance in backlash, the pattern looks about the same in all areas of the ring


 
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#2 ·
If they are used gears I'd throw them in and give it a whirl. Take it for a few rounds around the block and then look for crap in the oil. If it's clean go for a 20 mile drive, but bring you cell phone. Seems the worst that will happen is you will destroy some used gears and a set of bearings, and maybe be late for turkey. If it's good after 20 miles it be good for a long time.
 
#7 ·
My guess is a bent carrier. I was just helping a friend that had an HP60 doing the same thing. The tight and loose spots have completely different gear patterns than each other right?

When I built the 14 bolt for the 1 ton ZJ I ran into the same exact runout issue also. Here's a thread I started about it, with a movie to show the problem. One half of the carrier was WAY tweaked, bought another carrier half and it was perfect. Solved the issue.

Watch the vid
http://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/general-4x4-discussion/986941-14-bolt-carrier-bearing-issue.html
 
#8 · (Edited)
i couldnt get the pattern to get deeper, the backlash was already at .002. its so fucked.
and greg, you know this is zack right? lol. and yea, possible bent housing or carrier.
tr, thanks for the offer but i think im good off paying for another carrier and driving to galt. unless you want to trade for a 4.56 carrier.
even then it could be possible to run into the same problem

just drove it for 20-30 minutes. seemed to do fine. am i possibly going to get fast wear on the gears if i run it like this?
 
#17 ·
How couldn't you go deeper? You need more pinion shim. This will push the pinion into the ring more and deepen the pattern.

Right now you're shallow on the ring gear, and deep on the pinion. The ring gear is weaker than the pinion, so your definitely on the weaker end of the setup. Wont necessarily wear out quicker, but definitely not as strong.
 
#9 ·
when I saw this thread I thought it sounded like you, but I had no idea what your pirate name was LOL. Shit man, the 14 bolt is doing the same thing as the 60? How much pinion shim do you have in the 14, the thinnest one or none at all? When beef was sayin go deeper, he meant pinion deeper as in a little less shim which I kinda agree with. If your at .002 backlash, I might try to open her up a bit as well.

If it was silent on driving though...run it! haha
 
#10 ·
the 60 wasnt even bad. i think that ended up being a piece of something wedged in it cause it went away after a couple hours. and the variance was like .002 on the front. the 14b is way worse. i have a single shim in the 14b. its .016.
and it was silent. i guess its really not that much to crack into it again though.
mabey take that shim out and run nothing? then loosen her up a bit?
 
#12 ·
If they are used gears, depending on how used, you need to go off the coast side of the gear anyway. Unless they were driven off the coast, ie flipped or rear engine. The drive side on used gears is hard to get right, because they will take the pattern of how they were installed and wear.

How much shim was on the pinion/support when you took it apart (old gear) vs this set? I'd put the same shims back in and try it. See if you can get the coast looking better. Right now it looks like it needs to be deaper.

Used gears if they aren't setup like they were being run before will wear fast.
 
#13 ·
existing pinion shims=2 .011's so .022 total.
the photos where with the same thickness shims. after that photo i took one shim out and put in a single .016. it was a little better but not much, still have a pretty shallow lookin coast. i regret even trying to do my own gears. i should of just had someone else do it.
 
#14 ·
Gears are easy. Don't beat yourself up over it. Used gears can be a pain in the ass though.

Try making big changes. See if they show up on the pattern with different/desired effects. By big, I mean .010" change, or even no shim at all.
 
#15 ·
Used gears have definately been the biggest factor here. I was helping through the front 60, and even that was being a pain in the ass. Like these guys are saying, if you want to mess with it again I'd go deeper on the pinion. If the carrier has to come out, I'd do the same spin test I did in the video to see if you can notice a wobble. Another option at that point is pulling the ring gear off, rotating the carrier halves to a different orientation and reinstalling the ring. Wonder how big the chances are that could cause the variance.

If your tinkering with it sunday i *should* have time to check it out
 
#16 ·
i forgot about the run out....


A lot of times with used gears, a piece of loctite will get caught between the gear and the case.

Take it back apart and check the case with the gear off. If it has run out, try splitting the case and make sure it's clean and free of debris. Take a file to the case and make sure it files flat. Do the same thing with the ring gear.

I will also chase the threads and make sure they are clean and free of loctite and etc. too.
 

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#20 ·
Not everything.. Just how to adjust pinion depth :D
 
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