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Pillow Block, 2 piece shaft ???'s

35K views 86 replies 42 participants last post by  mountainguyed67 
#1 ·
Researched the hell outta this.... Found 2 things I couldnt draw a reasonable conclusion to.

The shaft is a press fit into the pillow block correct? ( I read someone was having shaft movement ad set screw issues... ?????....that confused me)

What load ratings are you using?
I read post after post about guys shattering cast iron blocks.....
I also read several posts where guys have no issues with the cast iron...


Is there a general rule of thumb for our sport when it comes to these? What size pillow blocks should I be looking at?

Thanks in advance!
 
#2 ·
If you have to run a 2 piece shaft, do it once and do it right.



The best solution for a driveshaft carrier bearing available, from Alltech Motorsports of course! The twisted car always had vibrations due to the angles and the style of carrier bearing, this car shouldn't have any with the way everything is going to be setup. :smokin:

 
#3 ·
I don't know why all of the sudden everyone thinks they need a mid shaft line that. It's a great product, and in some situations it's the only good option, but for 90% of us a typical mid shaft with a pillow block works great.
 
#6 ·
I think that the original intended purpose of the different types of pillow blocks should be considered.

The solid block with the solid bearing was meant for production factory applications, etc where there is no drive train play, everything is mounted solid,, large electric motors are mounted on concrete, and you're just transmitting torque down a straight line. Is that what we do? No. I've never seen a stock automotive application with this setup. Wonder why? Us dumbass 4x4 mouth-breathers are the only ones doing that shit. :) (I'm sure someone is going to prove me wrong on this.)

The heim-like block is meant for factory applications where the axis of the bearing is not mounted colinearly with the shaft but the shaft will still spin true without drivetrain flex or movement. The bearing is not meant to be cyclically articulated. It is just a dry race in a dry housing, some have a grease fitting, but none have a seal to keep the grease in. Again, I've never seen an automotive application using this.

The bearing encapsulated in rubber is meant for automotive applications. Look under every medium or heavy duty truck with a multiple-piece rear drive shaft and this is what you will find. I will grant you that they weren't designed for transmitting the immediate and forceful shaft movement that would be seen in cases where you are full throttle and your tires suddenly stop. I think this is why the 4x4 world generally seems to frown on them. I do think they are better than most think at absorbing that though. I have yet to have a problem with one, but admittedly haven't put any on high-power rigs.

I currently run something similar to what Apeeaters posted. The extra joint allows for angularity variance and my intermediate shaft w/slip yoke allows for length changes. If I'm full throttle and my tires suddenly bind up, something either breaks or the trans slips, but that big-ass carrier bearing doesn't care.
 
#7 · (Edited)
I've seen a ton of buggies with no slip on the mid-shaft. Some had solid mounted drivetrains, some bushing mounted, never seen a carrier bearing failure related to not having a slip. The failures I've seen were with a cast iron block, and were caused by an impact to the bottom of the driveshaft. The pillow block was always mounted with the flange on the bottom. The bearings hold up much better with the flange on top so the mount itself can take the load. If you look at a pillow block and think about it, it's really easy to see how weak it would be taking a load in that direction.
 
#9 ·
I agree, some rigs seem to get away with it for some reason. Some don't. Some don't and attribute it to something else. Some just haven't seen it fail yet. Not trying to pick on Wilson up there, but its not normal to need to replace one of those bearings 3 times within a human life. The same bearings in factories last decades, sometimes generations, with regular maintenance, running 24/7. Don't you think that its possible that the drivetrain movement is being transmitted to the bearing resulting in shorter than normal service life? Do you think I'm wrong about drive train movement? Do you think that that intermediate shaft is perfectly still 100% of the time and that the t-case never shifts at all? Why is it that you think ALL OEM applications use the rubber mounted bearing if they could simply just eliminate the rubber and solid mount it and get equal service life? Why spend the extra money on the rubber? Those carrier bearings in those trucks sometimes outlast the engines.
 
#10 ·
And I have ABSOLUTELY seen an intermediate shaft break as a direct result of using a solid carrier bearing. It lasted about 2 trips on my brother's Toyota-based buggy with rubber-mounted drive train. (Lots of movement.) The shaft busted off clean right at the carrier bearing where ti was trying to change angles but couldn't. He replaced the shaft and next trip out it happened again on the first obstacle, same exact spot on a new shaft. After that I replaced the solid bearing with a rubber mounted one and the problem went away completely. Buggy ran fine for years after until it was sold. The new owner is still driving it.
 
#11 ·
Wilson's case is probably a good example and the others you mentioned too. I really only have experience with buggies and poly mounted drivetrain. I know from running stock Toyota motor mounts for a while that they move a bunch. I can see that causing wear issues or breakage. I rarely ever greased my mid-shaft bearings, and I put quite a few miles on my last Ultra 4 buggy. It was a little loose after 3 years, but still had some life left in it.
 
#13 ·
I been tossing around what to do about this myself. I was going to make a similar piece for the solution. Now I dont have to. I'll be calling for 1 in the morning.
 
#14 ·
I think it all revolves around clearance and angles - Zukzizy's situations are with ultra 4 and ls mounted rear engine rigs -And some front engine with clearance issue's. Conventional rigs that need a 2 piece shaft can use a carrier style 3 joint system with no issue's ,assuming the side angle and up and down angles are set close . I think many of the cast issue's are from the simple fact the shaft get's hit and the stress is directly on the cast pillow block causing the fracture . A steel bearing is not going to give up in this situation .
 
#16 ·
Jess you remember our conversation a week or so ago about this very same idea ?

With a CV right off the T-case and slip yoke then another CV on the front of the center bearing going to the axle should result in a smooth vibration free set up you still agree?
 
#22 · (Edited)
Patooyee, I think you're adding more joints than he's planning.

If I understand correctly, he just wants

Tcase flange:CV:shaft:bearing:CV:Driveshaft:U-joint: pinion

His intermediate shaft will basically just have a CV joint on one end(tcase) and a flange on the other for the CV on the driveshaft to bolt to.

Makes sense in my head anyway :confused:
 
#24 · (Edited)
So, is there a problem running a slip yolk intermediate drive shaft? What's the advantages running a ridged shaft?

I'm going to run a slip yolk intermediate shaft to a carrier like Ape posted to another slip yolk shaft to the front end. I won't see high speeds much higher then 30 mph I doubt. My drive line may see higher speeds on assault hill climbs though.
 
#25 ·
What you describe is what i run. Why would it have any vibrations over any other design? I would think that the typical pillow block 2 piece design would inherently have vibrations since it always has one joint that can not be phased out. What you describe has 2 sets of joints that should both cancel each other out if done properly. I have been up to about 50 mph with mine so far and no vibrations.

Sent from my DROID BIONIC using Tapatalk 2
 
#26 ·
does anyone ever run the pillow block bearings on a standard female slip yoke?

Then you'd have a intermediate shaft with a slip (but no angularity).

Seems like it would be easier to fab up.

I went out the the shop and measured a 1330? slip yoke, it was 1.75" exactly, so you could literally just slide it into an off-the shelf pillow block (or 2) on it and shorten the stock driveline down for an intermediate shaft.
 
#28 ·
For those posting about vibs above 20 on a 3 joint shaft - If you have more that 5 degree's working up top at the t-case and more than 8 equaly on center joint and diff joint than tha't is why you have vibs . These are designed to have the top joint at near zero on all plains -and the 2 front most joints canceling each other , but not over 8 degree's to be happy doing it . Many folks run the first shaft down to eliminate angle and this screws up the canceling property's of the 2 joints after the carrier . I hope this makes sence . Jess
 
#29 ·
Yea that wouldn't work on mine. Mine the first shaft is at an angle off the t case (not sure degree) to the carrier at a thief angle to the front driveshaft. The front shaft naturally will be at various angles depending on where the front diff is at cycle. Ride height it should be fairly close to level.

Still, why would you want to run a non slip yolk intermediate driveshaft? Makes no sense to me as there will be movement of some sort under stress.
 
#30 · (Edited)
I run a CV at the transfer, to a pillow block (no slip, block is urethane mounted instead) with another CV on the working shaft, to a slip and single joint at the pinion.

My midship shaft only has about 6" of tube, and with a CV and urethane mounts, a slip in there is hard to package and unnecessary, so I don't run one.

I run the two CV joints because I had to do the reach around to miss the bell housing, and none of the angles worked out. Using the dual yoke carrier posted would probably have worked too, but would have shortened my midship even more than it already is, possibly to the point of problems getting 2 joints and a slip in there. Different packages call for different solutions.
 
#34 ·
Wow, thanks a lot guys! This turned into great thread with lots of good info.

OK, so Patooyee you offered the most in depth info and your thoughts where exactly mine on the movement. Advice much appreciated. Also nice to hear you drive you rig in near identical situations as I will mine.

Does anyone on here have a picture of there setup using the piece like apeters89 posted?
 
#35 ·
ill add to this to give more ideas. heres what i did on my 02 tacoma. very simple. i did some slight machining on my setup just to make it fit better and more cleanly, but realistically this bearing fits the stock tacoma setup perfect. all you need to do it cut some dom spacers for the new setup and your done. everything on my truck is polly mounted and i have no vibration from the driveline, even at freeway speeds. as for vibration, thats all to do with how your drivelines are balanced and setup. my lower driveshaft is 5/16s wall dom. and the first piece it your standard heavy duty driveline material from a driveline shop, so they weren't easy to balance but once you get them right there good forever. i used a stainless pillow block housing so it wouldn't crack easily. also if it were to break on the trail i could trail weld it easier than cast iron. so far i couldnt be more happy with the setup. works flawless.

also as other people said. mounting the pillow block upside down (opposite of mine) would be stronger for driveline impacts. i thought about doing that but since my drivelines not really vulnerable and its a stainless housing i wasnt worried about it. it was a lot cleaner and easier to mount it how i did.

pillow block is a standard 1-1/2" shaft diameter. fits the stock tacoma setup perfect BEARING SKU# SUCSP208-24










 
#69 ·
I'm looking to build a 2 piece junkyard driveshaft like above for my buggy. I was told there are several pillow blocks that fit the 1.5" shaft of the intermediate shaft. I have several junkyard 4 runner cv shafts I've collected randomly I was going to use, so I need the flanged version. From what I'm learning only 95-05 had the flange at the pillow block/bushing, all later years ran a yoke. I need one with the flange and am not having any luck finding one locally, or on ebay under $350 used. I have a yoke version intermediate from a friend. Is there an off the shelf flange I can put on it? Essentially just unbolting the yoke, and bolting on a flange. I "think" it's a 23 spline, but not sure if the spline angle is the same as the 23 spline Trail Gear flange. It only says older chain driven cases, nothing about the actual driveshaft.

Anyone swapped them and have the answer?
 
#38 ·
HMMM
Matts tacoma mount is differentin that it not only deflects like a rubber carrier bearing
But it actually can tilt down. this sort of mount sort of gives the carrier a chance to missalign even more. would having a carrier bearing that can "float" like this offer a better solution to eliminate potential vibes? or is this just basically like having a rubber carrier bearing?

Jesse?
 
#41 ·
good eye Jesse! i didnt really wanna go into much detail because most people dont have enough experience with pillow blocks and dont know the bearings are self centering in the housing. i purposely set mine up like this so it would always self center even if i have slight motor/tranny movement. also, besides setting it up the initial time. i never have to re adjust the pillow block mount when removing the driveline, when i unbolt the driveline at the t case, (with the way the pillow block can pivot back and down) im able to push back the driveline probably an inch from the t case flange. makes it alot easier to remove the driveline/etc. and i also figure it will help save the bearing because its able to float where it wants. and not be forced in a weird direction.

and i polly mounted mine how i did to help with vibration and help deflect hard driveline hits. but its hard to say how much it helps with vibration because i have none. dont know what it would be like without the polly bushings.
 
#43 ·
I built this as a solution to needing a three piece shaft in the front of my buggy. This piece lets me run the shaft out away from my bellhousing and starter and it being parallel to the case output means all angles cancel (no vibes).I have posted this before but this is a bigger pic (not completely finished here).



It is a rockwell pinion shaft that is turned to be a press fit in a pair of ss pillow block bearings. I think they were 1 5/8"; didn't take much turning. Using the rockwell pinion flanges lets you easily run 1410 joints. I had a spacer turned down for one end to get the spacing to work out for tightening the pinion flange nut. I had to take off about a third of an inch from the other pinion flange to get enough engagement on the pinion nut. This whole piece is rigidly mounted to the chassis. The shaft from the case to the intermediate shaft has a slip yoke and is made from a cut down rockwell driveshaft. The front portion is a traditional looking shaft. All the joints are 1410 in flanges.
 
#58 · (Edited)
Looking to do something similar, if i can't source a pinion shaft i may use new midshaft dana parts.

Question is... Is the rockwell pinion and flanges a 1.625 x 10spline.
 
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