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Old 01-20-2013, 10:54 AM   #1 (permalink)
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Constructive Criticism... Samurai Buggy Chassis Edition

This is my first time designing a chassis or cage of any kind. Let me know what you think.

A few questions:

Is the "X" behind the seats need to be tied into the frame rails or is it alright where it is?

It seems there is a wide span from the A to B pillar, will that be an issue?

Blue = .120 wall 1.5" HREW
Green = .095 wall 1.5" HREW





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Old 01-20-2013, 06:06 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Bing a Samurai guy, I like the lines. After my last chassis I will never use HREW again. Bends way too easy, and is not worth the cost savings. I can't tell you how many feet of tube I ended up replacing.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:19 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Maybe a B to B spreader at the door line. DOM in the high stress areas at least.

Last edited by YROC FAB.; 01-20-2013 at 06:20 PM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 06:36 PM   #4 (permalink)
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x3 on using DOM. Id also like to see the rear down tube tied in to smothing more then that single horizontal tube and the green tube coming from the front really should hit the dash tube junction if possible.

Last edited by 84prerunner; 01-20-2013 at 06:37 PM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:06 PM   #5 (permalink)
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X brace behind the seat should probably go to the frame instead of the sliders
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Old 01-20-2013, 07:38 PM   #6 (permalink)
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One really effective way to build an ugly chassis is to have a straight B pillar. If the chassis doesn't taper in from the door bar up it looks boxy IMO. It's stronger to angle that section in rather than building a rectangle.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:25 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by YROC FAB. View Post
Maybe a B to B spreader at the door line. DOM in the high stress areas at least.
I am planning on the B to B spreader, but probably at shoulder height for harnesses.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 84prerunner View Post
x3 on using DOM. Id also like to see the rear down tube tied in to smothing more then that single horizontal tube and the green tube coming from the front really should hit the dash tube junction if possible.
The rear down tube will be braced up with a shock mounting solution. The hood bar doesn't meet the the door bar because I am using the Samurai hood and cowl. I guess I should go price some DOM.

Last edited by Quattro_USP; 01-20-2013 at 08:32 PM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 08:28 PM   #8 (permalink)
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One really effective way to build an ugly chassis is to have a straight B pillar. If the chassis doesn't taper in from the door bar up it looks boxy IMO. It's stronger to angle that section in rather than building a rectangle.
The B pillar is angled in 7 degrees at the door bar and swept back 5". I may sweep it back another inch or two. Thanks for the suggestions.

Last edited by Quattro_USP; 01-20-2013 at 08:29 PM.
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Old 01-20-2013, 10:13 PM   #9 (permalink)
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Would like to see you rework or reinforce that area where all the tubes (should) come together at the A-pillar/dash, and the tubes running from the top of the B-pillar down to the bedrail tubes should also be tied-in to the chassis in some more direct fashion. Would also encourage you to think about suspension geometry and shock mounts so that you don't have to add those things as afterthoughts. Because, you know, that's exactly what they'll end up looking like.
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:22 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Don't use the thinner wall tube on any tube that could come in contact with a rock in a roll over.

thinner tube can be used somewhere where dent will more than likely not happen as a dented tube can cause structural failure if you roll more than once.

It looks like its a pretty minimalist design so really ask yourself where the loads are going to go. Think about every weird roll over you have seen and then ask where will that load transfer. If this tube fails what else will fail.

That thinner tube might be cool to reduce weight but a cage is about protecting yourself. That and the fact it is HREW says no way on the thinner tube above your noggin
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Old 01-20-2013, 11:28 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Would like to see you rework or reinforce that area where all the tubes (should) come together at the A-pillar/dash, and the tubes running from the top of the B-pillar down to the bedrail tubes should also be tied-in to the chassis in some more direct fashion. Would also encourage you to think about suspension geometry and shock mounts so that you don't have to add those things as afterthoughts. Because, you know, that's exactly what they'll end up looking like.
Thanks for the tips, that's why I posted this. It definitely needs more bracing and support in places. I might be able to cut holes in the cowl in order to tie the A pillar into the engine cage or front fender tubes. The suspension is all taken care of because I'm using a stretched Samurai frame and leaf springs. Nothing fancy. Wish I could afford coilovers and links. I consider it a "Formula Samurai".
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Old 01-21-2013, 07:17 AM   #12 (permalink)
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I would not build anything out of .90 wall that will ever hit a rock or the ground...unless you like dents.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:08 AM   #13 (permalink)
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I would not build anything out of .90 wall that will ever hit a rock or the ground...unless you like dents.
A chassis built from .90 wall tube would be indestructible! I'm going to change most of the tube to .120 and only use .095 on small braces and non structural pieces. Thanks for the help everybody.
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Old 01-21-2013, 09:11 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Oh and another thing..... Bendtech is awesome!
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Old 01-21-2013, 12:25 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by mudtruck44 View Post
One really effective way to build an ugly chassis is to have a straight B pillar. If the chassis doesn't taper in from the door bar up it looks boxy
I thought the exact same think when I saw it.


FWIW..I did 10 or so paper sketches just to gets lines that flowed for my buggy.
Once I had a layout I liked, I tossed it in CAD and then adjusted it for sanity. Honestly, a good bender and a little bit of time will allow you to do compound bends. Make it look a little less boxy..

I would try to use DOM also. HREW is "soft".
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:02 PM   #16 (permalink)
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Made some revisions... What do you guys think?







The firewall will be tied into the engine cage. I just didn't have measurements and clearances for the engine bay yet.
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Old 01-27-2013, 09:51 PM   #17 (permalink)
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Looking good ,


Is that the stock samurai frame , why not round tube frame?

I think you can have more options when you use round tube for the main frame rails
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Old 01-29-2013, 08:36 AM   #18 (permalink)
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Looking good ,


Is that the stock samurai frame , why not round tube frame?

I think you can have more options when you use round tube for the main frame rails
I'm hoping keeping the frame will speed the build up (I'm keeping the Samurai drivetrain). I have also already done quite a bit of work on the frame. It's stretched and the leaf spring hangers are flush with the bottom of the frame. It gives me something mostly square to work off of and is cheap.
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Old 01-29-2013, 09:09 AM   #19 (permalink)
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I think you can have more options when you use round tube for the main frame rails
Why because you have seen lots of buggys with round tube frames?

It is so much easier to mount things to a nice flat surface. Samurai frames are actually really strong and are basically 2x4x.090 front to back without any crazy swoops or bends like some factory frames, and are much stronger then any piece of 1 1/2 - 2" round tube (talking a single run here like some people replace sami or toy frames with) Look up some buggy builds on here, It isn't uncommon for people to start with 2x3 or 2x4 frame and build from there. If I ever get around to "buggy-ing" out my sami this is how I will do it, I'll give you the fact that I will probably end the rec tube at the b pillar but IMO it is much easier to mount a motor/tranny/tcase, fuel lines, brake lines, leaf spring, skid plates and such to rec tube.

I would ditch the every last .090 tube that is on the out side, mostly the roof, "first" B pillar and door bar braces. I understand the light bar because its replaceable. Its not that much weight savings from .120 to .090 and .090 will dent BAD. Usually when you end up on your roof it isnt a soft roll

Also up the sliders to .188 1 3/4" or so, If you don't have a die for your bender, I'm sure you could find a shop to knock out just the 2 pieces. I thought I could get away with lighter tube on my samurai, but I still bent the shit out of my 1 1/4 sch 40 pipe sliders (1 5/8 x .145) Which is waaaay harder to dent or bend then 1 1/2 HREW (not trying to start a debate here )
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Old 01-29-2013, 10:10 AM   #20 (permalink)
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plate the sami frame at high stress locations

rebuilding my front section now where the panhard was mounted
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:41 AM   #21 (permalink)
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Shouldn't it be chassis ADDITION, not chassis EDITION? Just sayin'...
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Old 01-29-2013, 11:51 AM   #22 (permalink)
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plate the sami frame at high stress locations

rebuilding my front section now where the panhard was mounted
All of the bends in the frame and frame extensions are plated with 1/8" x 3" strap with 1.5" holes cut out for a slight weight savings.

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Old 01-29-2013, 12:15 PM   #23 (permalink)
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It is so much easier to mount things to a nice flat surface. Samurai frames are actually really strong and are basically 2x4x.090 front to back without any crazy swoops or bends like some factory frames.
The Samurai frame does flare out in the middle of the straight section at the belly. It's kind of a pain to deal with when you are trying to intersect it with tube.

Quote:
I would ditch the every last .090 tube that is on the out side, mostly the roof, "first" B pillar and door bar braces. I understand the light bar because its replaceable. Its not that much weight savings from .120 to .090 and .090 will dent BAD. Usually when you end up on your roof it isn't a soft roll
The roof tube, door bar supports, and first upper B pillar will definitely get changed to .120 wall. I think I'm being a little to conservative with the .120.

Quote:
Also up the sliders to .188 1 3/4" or so
The plan is to skin the belly and slider area with dimpled 1/8" sheet followed by uhmw or maybe just a thick sheet of umhw. That will at least protect the underside of the sliders. I am also planning on a nerf bar with a dimpled plate insert. This will be sacrificed before the main structure.
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Old 01-29-2013, 02:26 PM   #24 (permalink)
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The Samurai frame does flare out in the middle of the straight section at the belly. It's kind of a pain to deal with when you are trying to intersect it with tube.

Ah, I didnt realise, still much better then a toyota, They change width hieght, and even the frame rail dimension quite a few times


The roof tube, door bar supports, and first upper B pillar will definitely get changed to .120 wall. I think I'm being a little to conservative with the .120.



The plan is to skin the belly and slider area with dimpled 1/8" sheet followed by uhmw or maybe just a thick sheet of umhw. That will at least protect the underside of the sliders. I am also planning on a nerf bar with a dimpled plate insert. This will be sacrificed before the main structure.
IMO I would still go bigger, at least a little, when I said bent I meant BENT, not just dented. Last time it took a hit and the door popped off the hinges

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Old 01-30-2013, 11:26 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by YotaAtieToo View Post
Why because you have seen lots of buggys with round tube frames?

It is so much easier to mount things to a nice flat surface. Samurai frames are actually really strong and are basically 2x4x.090 front to back without any crazy swoops or bends like some factory frames, and are much stronger then any piece of 1 1/2 - 2" round tube (talking a single run here like some people replace sami or toy frames with) Look up some buggy builds on here, It isn't uncommon for people to start with 2x3 or 2x4 frame and build from there. If I ever get around to "buggy-ing" out my sami this is how I will do it, I'll give you the fact that I will probably end the rec tube at the b pillar but IMO it is much easier to mount a motor/tranny/tcase, fuel lines, brake lines, leaf spring, skid plates and such to rec tube.

I would ditch the every last .090 tube that is on the out side, mostly the roof, "first" B pillar and door bar braces. I understand the light bar because its replaceable. Its not that much weight savings from .120 to .090 and .090 will dent BAD. Usually when you end up on your roof it isnt a soft roll

Also up the sliders to .188 1 3/4" or so, If you don't have a die for your bender, I'm sure you could find a shop to knock out just the 2 pieces. I thought I could get away with lighter tube on my samurai, but I still bent the shit out of my 1 1/4 sch 40 pipe sliders (1 5/8 x .145) Which is waaaay harder to dent or bend then 1 1/2 HREW (not trying to start a debate here )

In my opinion the frame is too wide and bulky and heavy , it also dose not kick up enough at the front or rear . Rounds tube takes up way less space and is no more work to mount stuff too.

but each to there own.
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