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Old 11-30-2001, 12:49 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Plan Change - sell front 60 and go 44 instead???

As some of you know, I purcahsed a front Dana 60 to replace the Toyota axles in my truck pretty soon.

But I am considering selling the 60 front and going with a 44 instead.

Am I nuts? Maybe


But here is the deal. I can get a set of axles - 44 front/60 rear for $1200. They are GM width, 8 lug, disks front & rear, welded rear, lockright front, knuckles drilled and tapped, 5.89 gears.

I paid $700 for my front Dana 60 - had welded carrier, 4.88's, needs lockouts and calipers and one caliper bracket.


I am looking at getting this front 60 ready to go under my truck and I have a LONG way to go... even more when I consider building the rear 60 to match it.

I want to run 38.5's or 39's under my Toy with a 4.3L, TH350, and Toyota dual cases BTW.


So what do you guys think? I have had several peopel tell me the 60 front is overkill for my needs, and that the 44 will hold up just fine with a good set of shafts and U joints. Remember too - I rode my birfields on some pretty rough trails and never broke one of those, so that may give you an idea as to my driving style and breakage record.

On one hand it seems like I am taking a step backwards here, but on another hand it makes a heck of a lot of economic sense and should hold up just fine for me....

Well? Can't wait to hear the coments on this one
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Old 11-30-2001, 01:00 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Re: Plan Change - sell front 60 and go 44 instead???

Quote:
Originally posted by DRM
But here is the deal. I can get a set of axles - 44 front/60 rear for $1200. They are GM width, 8 lug, disks front & rear, welded rear, lockright front, knuckles drilled and tapped, 5.89 gears.

I paid $700 for my front Dana 60 - had welded carrier, 4.88's, needs lockouts and calipers and one caliper bracket.
So let's see you can sell the 60 and recovery most of the cost of the new 44/60 combo and have axles that are ready to go? How long do you want to wait for the axles and how much more money do you want to dump into it. I know 60's are the sheet, but a 60 at home ain't worth as much as a 44 under your rig on the trail.

I'd love to have 60's F/R, but time and money dictate. My 2 cents.
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:13 PM   #3 (permalink)
 
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I think the 44 is the way to go as well . I have had 60 standard and reverse cut and for a toyota they are rediculous. To much unsprung weight I run 65" dana 44 in front with warn shafts and ctm ujoints and in my opinion it is atleast as strong as the 60 in terms of axleshafts and you still gain 1/2" in ring gear over the yota with 5.89 and a ford 9" rear and have never had any problems with 39 boggers with my truck weight at 3300 pds.

and I run tellico all the time live less than 30 min. from there?
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:14 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Re: Re: Plan Change - sell front 60 and go 44 instead???

Quote:
Originally posted by jdjanda
I know 60's are the sheet, but a 60 at home ain't worth as much as a 44 under your rig on the trail..
Exactly!

And as I think about this more and more, I see a different strategy emerging....


For now, I may just leave the 22RE in the Toy. Cut out the back of the cab and build the tube bed and extra seating like I had planned, put the 44/60 under the truck, and GO.

Realistically, I can have all of this done by January, and be BACK ON THE TRAIL!

Keep the 60 front, and 4.3L for later... and either build something else, or swap it into the Toy if the 44 and 22RE just aren't up to it all...


It is just that I was pricing a front ARB, rear 4.88 Dana 60 gears, setup kit, and rear Detroit and that alone is more than the already set up 44/60 axles...
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:18 PM   #5 (permalink)
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In terms of cheapness, go for the 44/60. Swap in the front 60 when you get tired of breaking the 44 or when you find the parts to complete it. This way you can look for those bargains and still wheel.
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
 
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Funny you should mention this.... I considered just doing the 44 because I couldn't lay my hands on a 60.

Basically the 44 isn't an option, certainly in my case. We have similar situations. I too am running dual cases but it's on a 215 ft lbs of torque engine through dual cases creating nearly 30,000 ft pounds at the axles and with a vehicle weighing 4680. 44's with 38's will never survive this and with your gearing, you'll ease up to a rock attempt to crawl and never know anything is wrong until you hear the snap.

2cents as always and YMMV
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:31 PM   #7 (permalink)
 
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david go for light weight, its the way to go im also keeping the 22re its a great motor, as well as I like my w56 very well. I run the toyta reduction box and should have the ott toyota to dana 300 adapter here in about a week. I am going to run a 3.8 atls with the 26 spline front with 1350 joints to my dana 44 and 9".Both of my axles use high grade axleshafts and airlockers. Compare the ring gear and pinion of the 9" to the 60 and there is no comparison as a matter of fact the 9" has a larger pinion with cosiderable less weight. I run a standard cab that I set back 3" on the frame with a tubular bed of 2" dom tubing with a full tank of gas I weigh out at 3300 pounds and can probably cut at least another 300 pds off that easy. I wont break and is very balanced and have a final crawl ratio of 194.47 to 1

Also I want to add that I built all the front and rear complete with air lockers etc , for less that I have ever built a standard rotation front 60

You couldnt give me another 60
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Old 11-30-2001, 02:46 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Keep it coming guys.... I am gonna decide tomorrow...
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Old 11-30-2001, 06:21 PM   #9 (permalink)
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i have suffered from 60 envy before and still would get a pair of reverse cut 60's if i could afford it.......
but $ is something i consider, i can break and replace alot of 44 parts and still have money in the back. them 60's parts are $$$

i don't know your driving/wheeling style, but i'm happy with my 44/60 combo. i'm running 36" tires

i also got a 4.3/th350 with dual T-cases

i don't know about 38.5's but i'm thinking the 37's look pretty good.........
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Old 11-30-2001, 06:52 PM   #10 (permalink)
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You realistically think that you can swap in a 4.3L and tranny you choose, build a front and rear D60, cut & tube the rear of your rig and be wheeling any time soon?
If I were you I would do one thing at a time or your rig will be down forever. I've seen way too many people try to rebuild everything at once and end up never finishing one part. You could always get their parts cheap after they give up
Go for the D44/60 combo for starters. Then if you need more power do the 4.3L and tranny. Keep the D60 just in case the D44 doesn't hold up.
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Old 11-30-2001, 07:07 PM   #11 (permalink)
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Well my vote would be for the D60. Whenever I modify my rig I always upgrade. Its like buying a welder, get one bigger than you think you need, and grow into it. You will wish you had the D60 when you finish the rig. Take your time and build it right. As far as weight, a 3.4 ton chev D44 is not going to be a heck of a lot lighter that the D60, and as far as weight it is low to the ground, I always look to lower weight above the CG.

Its like throwing all your money into a toy axle and still having birfs, you will have a setup D44 but still have small axles and ujoints.

I am building a simular setup this winter and I am going to run a RC60 front D60 rear, 4.3, 700r4, GMNP203/fordNP205 doubler. I plan to keep the toy PU body light and put hte weight where it counts.

JMHO.
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Old 11-30-2001, 07:09 PM   #12 (permalink)
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ok i say dont buy the axles and keep the 60 screw econimical. i do belive that some one else could probably use those axles. ok if u dont want ppl to know this but he has (had?) a buyer for the 60, he wanted to trade a RD 44 from a F150, the radius arms, a unused used arb for a 44, hysteer arms, 8-lug hubs and rotors, calipers etc.. i still vote to let that guy sell the axle to some one else later on.
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Old 11-30-2001, 07:11 PM   #13 (permalink)
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a 60 in your front yard is as good as money in the bank. keep it. if you have to run your toy front until you can swing the extra $$$ to finish the 60 and run it. under no circumstance would i get rid of that 60, postpone it's intallation if you must but keep it. they are only going to get harder to find and go up in price.
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Old 11-30-2001, 07:26 PM   #14 (permalink)
 
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I say sell it dave ive had over thirty of them and could have put one in my yota if I wanted they are to overrated. The 4x4 market has exploded in the last 2 years and you will and now can buy every piece of a 60 new! But consider the weight I say that a ford 9" housing modified with 3/8"thick 3" o.d. d.o.m. tubbing with 60 inner axles that you can pick up cheap from all the guys that are building r.r. 60 and youve got the strength of a 60 just like sunray has been doing all these years .ARB will be releasing a 35 spline airlocker this spring .

You can build a nine inch ford to any strength level that can be had by a 60 with less weight
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Old 11-30-2001, 08:20 PM   #15 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by camo
a 60 in your front yard is as good as money in the bank. keep it. if you have to run your toy front until you can swing the extra $$$ to finish the 60 and run it. under no circumstance would i get rid of that 60, postpone it's intallation if you must but keep it. they are only going to get harder to find and go up in price.
That is what I thinking.... hold on to it and if the 44 dies, I have an upgrade ready to go

But no running the Toy front any more - axles were sold weeks ago
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Old 11-30-2001, 09:18 PM   #16 (permalink)
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These pics are old, but when I was going through the D44? or D60? phase, they did it for me
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Old 11-30-2001, 09:42 PM   #17 (permalink)
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David: are you outboarding the front springs??

What are you doing in the rear??
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Old 11-30-2001, 09:52 PM   #18 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by convertiyota
David: are you outboarding the front springs??

What are you doing in the rear??
if I stay 60 I have decided to narrow the front long side 3" and match the present spring hangers. if I buy the 44/60 I will outboard the front springs to match the perches.

The rear will be a 4 link w/ double shackles (one on each end) on standard leaf springs.
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Old 11-30-2001, 09:58 PM   #19 (permalink)
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The rear will be a 4 link w/ double shackles (one on each end) on standard leaf springs.
Just out of curiousity, why do the double shackles when you've halfway through a 1/4 elip or coil setup (the hard half, too)??
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Old 11-30-2001, 10:08 PM   #20 (permalink)
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sooner or later you will want a d60 in there you will break the 44. id not rush and go with the d60. i swapped 1/2 tons in my rig ran them for a year snapped the d44 several times with 35s then decided i had enuff and swapped the 1 tons in.
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Old 11-30-2001, 10:09 PM   #21 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by techguru73
I say sell it dave ive had over thirty of them and could have put one in my yota if I wanted they are to overrated
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30 dana 60's huh? i call bullshit


overrated? do you have any idea what you are even talking about? exactly what is overrated about a 60? the strength? costly perhaps but not overrated.
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Old 11-30-2001, 10:15 PM   #22 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally posted by convertiyota


Just out of curiousity, why do the double shackles when you've halfway through a 1/4 elip or coil setup (the hard half, too)??
I want more flex than the standard spring setup, but I see no need for the insane droop of 1/4's or screwing with coi spring rates and costs....

Besides, like you say - I am halfway there... so that means if I wanna change I don't have far to go
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Old 12-01-2001, 12:49 AM   #23 (permalink)
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I say definately go wit the 44 dave.. With your driving habits, just weld the joints and i bet ya $$ you will never have an issue with popping joints/axles, even with the 4.3..
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Old 12-01-2001, 01:12 AM   #24 (permalink)
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You may have a point dave.
As was mentioned earlier though, with the low gear ratios many of us are running these days, there are times when I dont even feel the slightest hint of bind or strain before I hear the snap, and send shrappnell everywhere.
With the ease of replacing an axle assembly in d44 its not that bad, if its only occasional, but when it was happening 2 or 3 times a day, it was getting annoying, and expensive.
However since I have been running the new CTM 300m joints, I have not been able to break a joint. Even doing manuevers like starting a one wheel climb with a sharp turn up a rock, (which would normaly grenade a 297X joint almost certainly everytime I try it). I have almost forgotten that I even have a D44 or ever had a U joint problem. I just climb the way I want, and even hammer down when more volume is the only way up.
The fact that they will be unconditionaly lifetime warrantied, has me contemplating buying another set of Warn high strengths, and CTM joints and setting up, a back up set of assemmblies, for when failuire inevetiably occures, at least Ill just need to swap em out and send em back for warranty replacement.
I have been actively searching for a D60 for a halfway decent price, but know Im rethinking if I need one.
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Old 12-01-2001, 01:35 AM   #25 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I wanted they are to overrated. The 4x4 market has exploded in the last 2 years and you will and now can buy every piece of a 60 new! But consider the weight I say that a ford 9" housing modified with 3/8"thick 3" o.d. d.o.m. tubbing with 60 inner axles that you can pick up cheap from all the guys that are building r.r. 60 and youve got the strength of a 60 just like sunray has been doing all these years .ARB will be releasing a 35 spline airlocker this spring .

You can build a nine inch ford to any strength level that can be had by a 60 with less weight
Ahhh .......the dumb comment for the day Yeah those 9" diffs are so strong.. wonder why the assassin broke the pinions on it's axels. and that low pinion output is so TITS! and for your information if you are going to have weight don't you think it would be wise to have it low. Like ballast???

Dave if you sell that 60 you will regret it in the long run.. those are like land and will do nothing but go up in price.... So you want to take a shortcut now so you can spend more later and upgrade to it then (have you recently changed your ways man because the DRM I know is the cheapest bastard on the planet)? I have ran both axels. the 60 front was the BEST upgrade yet. Wheeling with the peace of mind that the chance of breakage is very slim and makes wheeling what it use to be. Fun and you don't have trail fixes. A d-44 is good and it's not a question of if it will break but when.. it will only be a matter of time. If you do not have the means a d-44 is a great option but when you have the 60 in your posession you are crazy to let it go.
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