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Old 08-29-2014, 03:16 PM   #1 (permalink)
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steering gear box options What are you using?

My buggy is currently set up with a PSC DE ram full hydro kit. It has a 3 link with panhard bar. The front half of the frame is 2X4 tubing. I am very pleased with the PSC full hydro. But, I dont get to go wheel as much as I used to, and I get tired of it sitting and not getting used. It has a FJ hood and grill and looks somewhat streetable. I would like to start driving it around as a DD. I dont want to compomise its abilities or reliability offroad, though.

I am considering changing over to hydro assist. Nothing fancy like the bell crank set up JHF of blue torch have ran. Just a simple cross over style with a PH bar. I think a box mounted outside the frame rail would fit the best. Im not sure I could even fit one inside the frame rail. The scout box mounts outside the frame, and the forward swing pitman arm would probably be easier to package also. Im not sure how tough they are, though. I run 39" red label krawlers (I will get some street tires if I do this). I dont want to have to worry about breaking sector shafts or anything else in the gear box. Anyone have experience with the scout box? Any other recommendations?
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Old 08-29-2014, 04:05 PM   #2 (permalink)
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I've been running a scout II box for a couple years now with ram assist and its been doing fine. It does cross my mind here and there that it could break though. I'm running 39.5s with a welded frontend.

Other forward swing options:
Landcruiser FJ60/62 and FJ80/FZJ80 boxes
78-79 F150 boxes <these seem to be the biggest

If you don't need the forward swing there are the standard saginaw boxes that mount outside the frame or toyota mini-truck boxes.

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Old 08-29-2014, 04:08 PM   #3 (permalink)
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I'd keep what you have.
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Old 08-29-2014, 05:32 PM   #4 (permalink)
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If you can make it work, the Durango box is what I recommend.
It bent and twisted my stock wag pit-man arm, without power assist.
$21 at my local u-pull and it has the larger piston.

Buddy has it with a ram, pushes 39" crawlers like nothing..





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Old 08-29-2014, 06:36 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Toyota pickup or like stated above fj60/62.
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:39 PM   #6 (permalink)
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If you can make it work, the Durango box is what I recommend.
It bent and twisted my stock wag pit-man arm, without power assist.
$21 at my local u-pull and it has the larger piston.

Buddy has it with a ram, pushes 39" crawlers like nothing..





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This would prolly be my vote simply because this is the easiest to find in my area...finding a scout or Toyota box.... Ha. If you want rear swing a 2wd Chevy box would work from 73-87
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Old 08-29-2014, 07:59 PM   #7 (permalink)
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Ill look into f150 boxes too

Do the Durango boxes mount inside or outside the frame? Forward or rearward swinging? Do I want one from a 2wd or 4wd?

Thanks
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Old 03-10-2015, 07:20 PM   #8 (permalink)
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Bringing this back to the top
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Old 03-10-2015, 08:14 PM   #9 (permalink)
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I'm building mine (what's left of a TJ) with a scout II box and 3 link with panhard setup. Still building but it should work well when done. Will be running 40" stickies of some sort. Using a howe 2" ram and tc pump for the rest of the system. If you have a ram and set everything up correctly, the box (sector shaft) should see very little stress
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Old 03-10-2015, 09:48 PM   #10 (permalink)
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Ill look into f150 boxes too

Do the Durango boxes mount inside or outside the frame? Forward or rearward swinging? Do I want one from a 2wd or 4wd?

Thanks
Durango box's are inside the frame, rearward pointing pitman. I believe the large bore box's come from 98-99? V8 models, not sure if # of drive axles matters. Other's will have the smaller bore yj/tj/xj box.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:08 PM   #11 (permalink)
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For the ram setup, do it this way:

F-350 Hydro Assist - Evo Builds - EMF Forums - 403.935.3540

here's the kit, pricey, but worth it:

EMF Hydraulic-Assist Kit Double Ended Ram, Steering System Canada

That Superduty is still in service after 5 years on a ski hill pushing matt tracks around, has not had a single issue with any of the parts. Clay gives a good description and write up on how everything works and how it really saves the steering box.
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:31 PM   #12 (permalink)
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I'm building mine (what's left of a TJ) with a scout II box and 3 link with panhard setup. Still building but it should work well when done. Will be running 40" stickies of some sort. Using a howe 2" ram and tc pump for the rest of the system. If you have a ram and set everything up correctly, the box (sector shaft) should see very little stress
I'd be interested to see how the scout box holds up. I'm curious why you didn't go with the direct bolt up TJ box? If you dont mind keep me updated and add pics. Thanks
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Old 03-10-2015, 11:54 PM   #13 (permalink)
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Another thing I've been thinking about. Years ago on my old Toyota I tried assist. Crossover steering. Parallel 4 link with panhard. I spent a lot of time setting it up right (or so I thought at the time) with the PH parallel to drag link bla bla to eliminate bump steer. I also did my best to try to make the axle stop hit before the box hit its end of travel, as well as the ram hit its stop before the box. I ended up hitting something which jerked the wheel out of my hands and over traveled the box breaking it internally. I got pissed and went full hydro. The ram was mounted from axle to tie rod...typical. I think that the limits werent matched well through the range of motion of the suspension if that makes sense. I'm wondering if running the ram from the pass side frame rail to the pitman arm would help prevent this? The 2 will always be in the same location relative to one another. The ram would act as a stop to keep the steering from pushing the box past it's stops. Thoughts?

The more I think about it im probably better off sticking with full hydro. But I'm still curious about this
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Old 03-11-2015, 12:48 AM   #14 (permalink)
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I'm completely happy with my xj box and hydro assist. I use hydoboost brakes and 42" radials, the street ability is fantastic. I believe I have a variable ratio, but I'm not really sure. It's a PSC remain XJ box, they used to be only 299 a few years ago, but now they are insane. I also employ a WJ pump, wich is a high volume unit. I'm wanting forward facing box, to help with geometry, and give me more suspensions up-travel, otherwise my pitman arm interferes with the XJ tie rod. I'm happy with my current setups perfomance, I just want it reverse throw. Would a place like PSC or Howe be able to swap out my boxes internals To convert it to reverse throw? Another option: I'm considering a WJ steering box With assistance. They mounts outside the frame rail and also uses 1/2" ID plumbing, because of the higher flow pump and hydro controlled radiator fan.
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Old 03-11-2015, 07:53 AM   #15 (permalink)
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I've been running the same scout box since 2002. I have modified it with hydro assist and custom pitman arms as the truck has evolved. It has seen a seal kit or two but the hard parts are still all original. Truck has been running a panhard/3 link front 60 for 3 years now with no issues. The 8" ram and pump are trail gear. I use the ram as the steering limiter/stop.
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Old 03-11-2015, 08:22 AM   #16 (permalink)
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My vote is the old 1979 ish f150 box very strong.
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Old 03-11-2015, 09:21 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Ran a Scout box on my Dakota - no assist. Boxes seemed TOUGH but I was always killing assist, probably melting the seals somewhere as the steering ran HOT. I added a cooler and external filter, and then started breaking the frame and bought a buggy.

Can't get them at a parts store when you have issues, they were NLA as remans to order, too. Could send yours out to get rebuilt, or buy the seal kit and DIY. I have one around if I ever get to stripping my Dak, I'm not sure how close to south of heaven I am but hell may have frozen over here this winter?
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Old 05-06-2015, 08:09 PM   #18 (permalink)
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back to the top, I'm looking into the best box options on a buggy too
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Old 05-07-2015, 02:39 AM   #19 (permalink)
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Look into the Saginaw 808 box. Lee MFG built a box for my wagon (inside rail) with an additional sector shaft bearing. Scout boxes are 700 series.

Here is some more about the 808 box.

Quote:
The 700- and 800-series gears have a 70mm piston bore. The 708 and 808 gears benefit from an 80mm bore. The 605 uses a 66.6mm piston, and it does not use a four-bolt cover plate at the adjuster end. Instead, the adjuster/cover plate is a thick cup washer retained by a snap ring. The 605 suits light-duty vehicles like the original S-trucks and some passenger cars. There is a contemporary Saginaw 600-series gear with a 70mm bore and the model 608 gear with an 80mm bore. The modern 600 series has stamina and even NASCAR applications to its credit.

The larger Saginaw rotary valve gears require little attention. The pump will likely fail long before a gear shows wear. Pitman/sector or worm bearing adjustment is seldom necessary between rebuilds. Slight backlash or worm play can be corrected if necessary. Significant worm play, over-center backlash, or any roughness indicate the need for rebuilding.
Introduction To Power Steering Systems - Classic Trucks Magazine
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