propane problems - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 05-26-2015, 10:04 AM   #1 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Member # 209933
Posts: 89
propane problems

just got my jeep converted over to propane. forklift tank, vff 30, impco model e and impco 425 on a 258 i6. itll only start if I push the primer button on top of the model E. once started if you let it die, gotta prime it to start again. it wont idle either. messed with the timing and its not dialed in perfect but its pretty good. could it be a timing issue or maybe need to rebuild the model e or 425?
jakec69 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 10:38 AM   #2 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
flatblack51's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Member # 121033
Location: San Diego
Posts: 3,312
Is your solenoid wired in correctly. I'd call Got Propane. They is awesome and i'm sure will figure out your problem quickly.
__________________
Thank you to My sponsors:
Pro Comp tires
PRP Seats
Maximum Transmissions
Goatbuilt
Trail Ready Beadlocks
Yukon Gear and Axle
ADS Racing Shocks
WARN Ind.
Socal Print Shop
Broadsword Racing
#4889
flatblack51 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 05-26-2015, 10:45 AM   #3 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2010
Member # 157355
Location: NE
Posts: 6,891
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakec69 View Post
itll only start if I push the primer button on top of the model E. once started if you let it die, gotta prime it to start again.
thats pretty much all the propane set ups I've seen.
__________________
Minimal mech. knowledge, overly ambitious
Pokeman is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 05-26-2015, 11:34 AM   #4 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Corey Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21622
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,123
Send a message via AIM to Corey Young Send a message via Yahoo to Corey Young
Sounds like a vacuum leak. Sometimes hard start means it is not getting enough fuel.
Corey Young is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 01:48 PM   #5 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Member # 209933
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatblack51 View Post
Is your solenoid wired in correctly. I'd call Got Propane. They is awesome and i'm sure will figure out your problem quickly.
I don't have any wires to anything as far as the propane setup goes. it was running fine on an old hunk of shit leaky weber and all i did was take the carb off and put the propane stuff on.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeman View Post
thats pretty much all the propane set ups I've seen.
well shit. that will suck having to open the hood every time I have to start it. I thought propane was supposed to be good on cold starts. im in florida so its not really cold much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Young View Post
Sounds like a vacuum leak. Sometimes hard start means it is not getting enough fuel.
that might be it. I have a really cheap 4bbl to 2bbl adapter to get the 425 on the intake and it seemed like it might leak. I hope that's it.
jakec69 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 02:22 PM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 171191
Posts: 478
check vacuum at the lock off (while cranking).. Next move to the converter and check fuel pressure (while cranking). Should be 1-2 psi. If not, then you may have an old crusty diaphragm or stuck plunger. Rebuild kits are cheap and no big deal to install.
bweezy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 02:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2010
Member # 171191
Posts: 478
Quote:
Originally Posted by jakec69 View Post
well shit. that will suck having to open the hood every time I have to start it. I thought propane was supposed to be good on cold starts. im in florida so its not really cold much.
False.. propane is in a liquid state when in the tank. It requires heat from your coolant or atmosphere to turn to a gas state. We have to pure hot water on the converters in the winter to get them to start.
bweezy is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 02:31 PM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Member # 7233
Location: Jefferson
Posts: 27,613
Send a message via AIM to Wilson
Quote:
Originally Posted by flatblack51 View Post
Is your solenoid wired in correctly. I'd call Got Propane. They is awesome and i'm sure will figure out your problem quickly.
Even if he had one, he is getting fuel past the lock-off so that is not the problem.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Pokeman View Post
thats pretty much all the propane set ups I've seen.
guess you've only seen some hack stuff.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Corey Young View Post
Sounds like a vacuum leak. Sometimes hard start means it is not getting enough fuel.
Yes, quite possibly

Quote:
Originally Posted by bweezy View Post
check vacuum at the lock off (while cranking).. Next move to the converter and check fuel pressure (while cranking). Should be 1-2 psi. If not, then you may have an old crusty diaphragm or stuck plunger. Rebuild kits are cheap and no big deal to install.
He is getting fuel as far as the vaporizer, it is not likely a fuel issue. Given his posts, it is most likely worn out/ cracked components or a vacuum leak. If those are ruled out I would re-visit the timing. I set total timing on my propane setups and run them at mid to upper 30 ' s by 2500 rpm.
Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 02:35 PM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Member # 7233
Location: Jefferson
Posts: 27,613
Send a message via AIM to Wilson
Quote:
Originally Posted by bweezy View Post
False.. propane is in a liquid state when in the tank. It requires heat from your coolant or atmosphere to turn to a gas state. We have to pure hot water on the converters in the winter to get them to start.
How cold is it where you are? The boiling point of lpg is -42c
Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 02:46 PM   #10 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Member # 209933
Posts: 89
I got this whole setup off a guys running truck. it was running when I went to his house to take it off. the only thing that wasn't is the 2bbl to 4bbl adapter. it is a cheap piece of shit but I couldn't find a decent one thatll fit. I bet that's the problem. if its not storming ill check when I get home. I have total timing set at 37 all in by 2500.
jakec69 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 03:19 PM   #11 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2011
Member # 194601
Location: Reno, Nv
Posts: 146
2 things I found with mine that may or may not help but:

1st, when cranking don't operate the accelerator pedal. Just crank, since the fuel is drawn in by the engine vacuum, if you open the butterfly it kills the vacuum "signal" and wont have much luck getting it started.

2nd, I had similar issue you describe, and both times it ended up being a bad ignition module. Like not completely dead but guess it was a weak spark type scenario. 1st time was my stock ICM, then went to a MSD ignition box which lasted about a year then started doing it again.

May or may not help but those two things where my experiences with that issue. Everyone keep telling me it was a vacuum leak so I wasted a butt load of time chasing leaks that were none existant.
Desertninja775 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 06:20 PM   #12 (permalink)
Pirate4x4 Addict!
 
Corey Young's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Member # 21622
Location: Washington State
Posts: 7,123
Send a message via AIM to Corey Young Send a message via Yahoo to Corey Young
Turn your idle up then spray the intake with brake kleen, if the idle goes up more then you have a vacuum leak. An O2 sensor and air/fuel gauge will help you tune it also.
Corey Young is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 10:12 PM   #13 (permalink)
The dude abides
 
DEER TICK's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2008
Member # 114517
Location: Grass Valley
Posts: 1,350
Another one for vacuum leak.I had the same issues when I put together my 4.3.Found the vacuum leak, and it started fine after that.
__________________
Opinions are like assholes.Everybody has one,and most stink!
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
DEER TICK is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-26-2015, 11:01 PM   #14 (permalink)
"All Weeee Drive!"
 
MochaMike's Avatar
 
Join Date: Aug 2001
Member # 6450
Location: Concord, CA
Posts: 12,059
Could the VFF30 be clogged? IE not getting vacuum, so no fuel.
Which vacuum line is hooked up to the VFF30?

Try bypassing it.

I put electric lockouts next to my tanks.
__________________
62 IH Scout, Built to wheel.

Last edited by MochaMike; 05-26-2015 at 11:01 PM.
MochaMike is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2015, 01:00 AM   #15 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member # 53528
Location: norcal
Posts: 15,170
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wilson View Post

guess you've only seen some hack stuff.


x2

if my turbo 4cyl has been sitting over night or longer it takes about 8 seconds of cranking to start(no pushing the button), after that initial start up it will start up within 1-1.5 seconds. i pretty much never push the button unless i happen to be near it and its been sitting over night, its on the pass side so its rare.
rockyota83 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-27-2015, 06:05 AM   #16 (permalink)
Newbie
 
Join Date: Jan 2012
Member # 209933
Posts: 89
Quote:
Originally Posted by Desertninja775 View Post
2nd, I had similar issue you describe, and both times it ended up being a bad ignition module. Like not completely dead but guess it was a weak spark type scenario. 1st time was my stock ICM, then went to a MSD ignition box which lasted about a year then started doing it again.

May or may not help but those two things where my experiences with that issue. Everyone keep telling me it was a vacuum leak so I wasted a butt load of time chasing leaks that were none existant.
it has a hei distributor on it. I do have to replace the module under the cap about once a year and did about 2 months ago. ill check it.
its a vacuum leak without a doubt. cranked it up and you can hear it. it wasn't like that last time I had it running but it is now. started storming so didn't get to work on it.
jakec69 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2015, 12:59 PM   #17 (permalink)
Wheeler
 
altfuel1991's Avatar
 
Join Date: Feb 2012
Member # 211442
Location: Birmingham, Alabama
Posts: 282
It sounds like there may be more than one issue. It does sound like a vacuum leak in the intake system somewhere. The mixer you are running is also on the large side for that engine so the vacuum signal when starting would be weaker than a smaller one. We have a "start" valve that can be installed on the vaporizer so you can prime the engine with a toggle switch or connect it to the starter circuit so it opens whenever the starter is engaged. The mixer could also be old and have excessive wear in the housing causing hard starts and idle issues.

Here are general guidelines for setting timing on a propane engine.

Setting Timing for a Propane Engine

On most applications, the timing should be a total of 30 degrees(base and centrifugal) with all of it in by 2500 rpm. What we normally do is disconnect the vacuum advance, run the engine up to 2500 rpm, set the timing at 30, lock it down, then let it idle with the vacuum advance disconnected. See what your base timing is running. If it is low,4-10 degrees for example, you can alter the centrifugal to lower that number and increase the base, still keeping a total of 30 degrees. As you increase the base timing check to see if the engine spins and starts smoothly when hot. If you reach a point that the engine bucks or loads the starter, back off about 3-4 degrees and that is your base timing. Subtract that number from 30 degrees and that will be the advance you need to have. This will provide a good start, strong idle and proper advance curve. We have had some engines run as much as 20 degrees base timing but 14-16 degrees is normal. The vacuum advance should be connected to ported vacuum and have no more than 10 degrees. This helps fuel economy at light throttle positions.
__________________
Propane Systems: Buddy: 877-403-7827
Precision Sales and Service, Inc.;Birmingham, Alabama [email protected]

Contact me if you have questions.
__________________
Propane Systems: Buddy: 877-403-7827

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
altfuel1991 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2015, 07:07 PM   #18 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Member # 118003
Posts: 237
I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask if the tanks are laying down or upright. Depending on the tank the pickup tube could only be supplying vapor. Enough to start after a good purge but not supplying enough to run constantly.
__________________
90YJ 4link F/R, SAW Airshocks, 42" TSLs, D60/14bolt, Full Hydro/Hydroboost, L67 SC 700R4/NP231/D300
JKMotorsports is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2015, 08:03 PM   #19 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Wilson's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2001
Member # 7233
Location: Jefferson
Posts: 27,613
Send a message via AIM to Wilson
Quote:
Originally Posted by JKMotorsports View Post
I'm going to go out on a limb here and ask if the tanks are laying down or upright. Depending on the tank the pickup tube could only be supplying vapor. Enough to start after a good purge but not supplying enough to run constantly.
True, upright should be fine (assuming fork lift type tank) but there is a proper way to lay the tanks down to submerge the pickup tube.
Wilson is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-28-2015, 10:38 PM   #20 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Member # 53528
Location: norcal
Posts: 15,170
tank locator pin down is what i came across when looking how to mount my tanks, i mounted mine standing up though and pin towards the rear

rockyota83 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-29-2015, 08:06 AM   #21 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
Propane's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2004
Member # 30839
Location: Phoenix, Arizona
Posts: 4,111
90+ percent of the time propane problems are caused by a vacuum leak. This can also include the big 1 inch hose that supplies the fuel to the engine. Think of a drink straw with a hole in it. Tiny hole messing up my soft drink.
Always make sure all connections are sealed/capped before trying to start a propane engine.
__________________

Bulletproof propane kits for extreme off road and carbureted engines. Please visit our website for details.

_____________________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


TO ORDER ONLINE:

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.



To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.


Check us out on Facebook
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
Propane is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 05-29-2015, 08:26 AM   #22 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Member # 70652
Location: Brookhaven, GA
Posts: 257
Check the fuel line between the regulator and the carb. One small hole will make it do that very common on forklifts.
kylebudd is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:08 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.