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Old 07-06-2018, 11:17 AM   #326 (permalink)
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summit offers a 5.75 diameter sfi crank pulley for lsx engines. I'm running that with a 5.5" psc pulley and tc pump. still building it so no results yet.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:47 AM   #327 (permalink)
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Itís not that itís race car stuff. The same rule still applies, each part needs to be proportional to each other. You just have one or the other not sized right, ram is small or pump is big.

And I think heís full of crap. On the unimog retrofit the same servo was sent back twice and had only the torsion changed. Started out at 185, ended up at 220 after trying 200. Weíve got another servo in right now having just the torsion changed from 185 to 210.
Is that through sweet or Howe? Guy at sweet quoted 275 plus seals and labor 350 plus shipping. I bought the valve from Coleman for 300.

I made a little progress today. I had the end play adjuster all the way in thinking that was taking up slop in the box which was the opposite. Went the other way and it got better but not good. Ill find a stock restrictor for the pump and slow the flow back down and see how that goes.
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Old 07-06-2018, 11:59 AM   #328 (permalink)
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I am busy troubleshooting a shaking issue too.
Sweet/Howe .210 servo, manual box, 2.5 ram. Uses the Howe t pump, pressure relief valve, and filter/resi.
It worked pretty good for the previous owner, with smaller Tc based pump, driven 1:1 with the crank, and an .185 servo. Now with ls, over driven with 6.5 pump pulley, Howe t pump it shakes turning, slowly, and moderate speed. If you turn as fast as your hands move it’s okay. Tires in the air it’s ok. It shakes, spikes psi so much it loosens all the steering fittings. Not my buggy, just helping out a friend.
Seems like the ram needs around 5.3 gpm to go lock to lock 1.5 seconds. That’s as fast as I can move it. T pump puts out ~6 gpm at ilde? Up to 15 at rpm, is it too much flow?
Thinking it needs less flow, or bigger torsion rod in servo.

My own rig, trail biuld, uses Tc pump, disabled Toyota fj60 box, using the servo in the box, heavily ported everything. Trail gear 2.25/1.25 double ended ram. Driven by belllcrank to the four link front end. I have had it cycling on stands, but no real results yet
You want a bigger torsion spring and less pump flow. Like jr4x said, smaller pulley to start or go to the 4.5gpm TC pump. Those trophy truck pumps are extremely overkill for us. Those are designed for huge desert racing racks with massive flow. Most of the flow is bypassed and heat is added to the system when it does this. Also recommend at least .220 torsion for any of us.

I had shuddering with my modified AGR box. I can't adjust the internal servo on that box. If I can't get this PSC big bore box to work well, I'll be adding a .220 or .275 sweet servo and a manual box.

Also have a source for 300m and 4130 saginaw sector shafts if anyone is in need. Direct replacement, drop in and go.

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Is that through sweet or Howe? Guy at sweet quoted 275 plus seals and labor 350 plus shipping. I bought the valve from Coleman for 300.

I made a little progress today. I had the end play adjuster all the way in thinking that was taking up slop in the box which was the opposite. Went the other way and it got better but not good. Ill find a stock restrictor for the pump and slow the flow back down and see how that goes.
This is what I was trying to tell you. Slowing down the flow will probably help a large bit.
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Last edited by gtxracer; 07-06-2018 at 12:08 PM.
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Old 07-06-2018, 12:21 PM   #329 (permalink)
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Is that through sweet or Howe? Guy at sweet quoted 275 plus seals and labor 350 plus shipping. I bought the valve from Coleman for 300.

I made a little progress today. I had the end play adjuster all the way in thinking that was taking up slop in the box which was the opposite. Went the other way and it got better but not good. Ill find a stock restrictor for the pump and slow the flow back down and see how that goes.
I'm pretty sure it was sweet, for like $100 bucks a pop maybe, plus shipping. The valve had originally been sourced from Howe and they had talked the guy into the 185 spring pretty much against his concerns for the application.

Can you post up a picture of your servo for the class to see?
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:44 PM   #330 (permalink)
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I'm pretty sure it was sweet, for like $100 bucks a pop maybe, plus shipping. The valve had originally been sourced from Howe and they had talked the guy into the 185 spring pretty much against his concerns for the application.

Can you post up a picture of your servo for the class to see?
Power Steering Servo
That's the one I got in the .200 flavor. I actually got a .275 off ebay but it was broken
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Old 07-06-2018, 04:46 PM   #331 (permalink)
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This is what I was trying to tell you. Slowing down the flow will probably help a large bit.
Misunderstanding Lol
Looking for a stock restrictor now.
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Old 07-06-2018, 06:02 PM   #332 (permalink)
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Does anyone know of Tc pump pulley in the 7-8 range?
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:13 PM   #333 (permalink)
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Power Steering Servo
That's the one I got in the .200 flavor. I actually got a .275 off ebay but it was broken
Did you come talk to me about this stuff at KOH 17?
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Old 07-06-2018, 07:20 PM   #334 (permalink)
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Did you come talk to me about this stuff at KOH 17?
Nope. Never been
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Old 07-06-2018, 08:56 PM   #335 (permalink)
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Nope. Never been
Last year another dude showed up at KOH to come check out the race car because he was trying to put together a servo system. He to had bought a sweet valve off of ebay, and it didn't work.

In other news, can you not take the 275 spring out of the other one and put it in the new one yourself? That is after messing with your pump more first of course.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:01 PM   #336 (permalink)
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Does anyone know of Tc pump pulley in the 7-8 range?
That's a big sob, if you can't find one would you entertain running the smaller balancer pulley? We don't run an LS so the lower pulley is 5 or 5.5 is all. Makes it a lot easier to package up the accessories.
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Old 07-06-2018, 09:13 PM   #337 (permalink)
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Last year another dude showed up at KOH to come check out the race car because he was trying to put together a servo system. He to had bought a sweet valve off of ebay, and it didn't work.

In other news, can you not take the 275 spring out of the other one and put it in the new one yourself? That is after messing with your pump more first of course.
The .275 spring is what's broken I think. The input and output move independent of eachother. I took it apart and there was a little pin inside that had sheered off and was stuck in a notch. I got pissed and haven't looked at it since. I may investigate further. Is there a blow up of the internals some where?

Im going to buy a remain pump tomorrow for the high pressure fitting so ill know pretty early if that works. It sounds as if I even get it to stop shaking in the driveway i may have issues going down the road still?
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Old 07-06-2018, 10:16 PM   #338 (permalink)
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That's a big sob, if you can't find one would you entertain running the smaller balancer pulley? We don't run an LS so the lower pulley is 5 or 5.5 is all. Makes it a lot easier to package up the accessories.
Yes. Also considering a smaller crank pulley. Donít really want to slow the water pump to much. Iím running the math on a bunch of setups.

5.5 = 1133 rpm~
6.5 = 930rpm~
7.5 = 820~
All at idle.

If the flow vs rpm of the Tc 4.5 gpm pump was aviable, it would make the tuning of flow a bit easier
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:44 AM   #339 (permalink)
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I think weíre turning the TC pump at 800 to 850 at idle, and a fixed vane pump is making max volume from 2000 rpm up.
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Old 07-07-2018, 04:48 AM   #340 (permalink)
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Sherm, it most likely sheared the roll pin that locates the torsion spring. Can you hold one shaft and twist the other all the way around in full circles? Or do they clack back and forth but still affect each other?
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Old 07-07-2018, 08:03 AM   #341 (permalink)
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Sherm, it most likely sheared the roll pin that locates the torsion spring. Can you hold one shaft and twist the other all the way around in full circles? Or do they clack back and forth but still affect each other?
It doesn't go all the way around. Maybe 1/8 to a quarter turn before it moves the other end. The sheared pin I found want a roll pin its solid and was stuck in a notch in the bottom of the barrel with all the seals going around it. There's 2 large teeth that engage the other shaft and what looks like mite be part of the torsion setup is spread out so they aren't affected by those teeth. I know its very possible i don't know what I'm talking about, I pulled it apart and looked at it for a minute or 2 and its been sitting ever since.

Got it figured out. See below

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Old 07-07-2018, 12:17 PM   #342 (permalink)
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I got the broken valve apart again while waiting for my stock restrictor to come and it is a surprisingly simple thing to work on. The pin that's broken is defiantly what actuates the torsion rod and I can swap the .275 over if need be.
My question now is the .275 going to be a huge difference from the .200? Or more comparable to my 2012 corolla(.200) vs the 05 forester (.275)? Sorry if I'm not making any sense. I know the .275 is in the "heavy" category but has anyone used one that can describe the feel?
I don't want to go through all the trouble if the thing will be like driving a tank. Maybe they will sell me just another torsion setup.

Also if I swap the .275 in do i need to keep the spool valve with it or are they all the same?

Last edited by sherm$; 07-07-2018 at 12:29 PM.
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Old 07-08-2018, 05:16 AM   #343 (permalink)
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I got the broken valve apart again while waiting for my stock restrictor to come and it is a surprisingly simple thing to work on. The pin that's broken is defiantly what actuates the torsion rod and I can swap the .275 over if need be.
My question now is the .275 going to be a huge difference from the .200? Or more comparable to my 2012 corolla(.200) vs the 05 forester (.275)? Sorry if I'm not making any sense. I know the .275 is in the "heavy" category but has anyone used one that can describe the feel?
I don't want to go through all the trouble if the thing will be like driving a tank. Maybe they will sell me just another torsion setup.

Also if I swap the .275 in do i need to keep the spool valve with it or are they all the same?
They are surprisingly simple internaly. I would think 275 would feel a little on the stiff side. But if you cannot get the shaking to go away Iíd try it out for the process of elimination.
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Old 07-08-2018, 10:57 AM   #344 (permalink)
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They are surprisingly simple internaly. I would think 275 would feel a little on the stiff side. But if you cannot get the shaking to go away I’d try it out for the process of elimination.
I fixed the broken servo with the .275 spring by drilling out the broken pin and putting in another and decided to try it before I slowed down the flow on the pump.
So the .275 works without shaking but is way too stiff, almost like no power steering at all but not quite that bad. So now I'm hoping sweet will sell me a .220 torsion spring without having to ship my unit in. Then hope .220 is the happy medium.

Last edited by sherm$; 07-08-2018 at 05:42 PM.
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Old 07-09-2018, 07:49 AM   #345 (permalink)
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I ordered a .220 and .235 torsion spring this morning. Supposed to arrive Friday. Ill report back after I swap them out. Obviously going to start with the .220 and hope its good.
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:25 AM   #346 (permalink)
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Did you buy torsion rods straight from sweet?
How much?
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Old 07-09-2018, 09:02 PM   #347 (permalink)
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Did you buy torsion rods straight from sweet?
How much?
Yep! 20 bucks each
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Old 07-10-2018, 02:03 PM   #348 (permalink)
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Yep! 20 bucks each
Can't wait to see how that turns out.
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Old 07-10-2018, 05:24 PM   #349 (permalink)
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jr4x, congrats on a great thread. I desert race a class 8 chevy, now with 40 inch KR3's, up from 37 kr's and kr2's in the past. Believe it or not, I have raced it for over 10 years with regular life-time warrantee vatozone rebuilt saginaw 1988-90 3-bolt half ton ps boxes, WITHOUT a ram assist. My truck is 2wd, a-arm suspension with swingset steering and a short drag link to the pitman arm. I have expected to at least need a ported box with a ram assist, but the stock parts just keep working and I don't know why. Maybe the swingset design prevents vertical steering shocks from hitting the pitman arm. I haven't broken a steering box yet, but they wear out in about 300-400 miles of racing. So I just return them to a different store each time, saying it 'just started leaking from the output shaft'..

Anyway I have been planning for years now to put together basically your exact system, but using a 16:1 manual box like this improved Vega box from flaming river, along with the 1.5:1 quickener I have been using. But rather than a full hydro ram, I would use a regular assist ram to the swingset. The main reason for the manual box is to offset the weight gain from adding the cylinder.

Vega-Style Performance Steering Box - 16:1 Quick Ratio - FR1500Q - 580 - 5430

So I have two questions. Why not run the quickener ahead of the servo, since a regular ps box with the servo built in is pretty much the same thing?

Also, how do you limit the ram travel? You dont want the box travel to bottom out first, as the ram would then become a tubing bender. Do you put spacers in the ram to make the box and ram stop at the same time?
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Old 07-10-2018, 06:03 PM   #350 (permalink)
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Scottm, i am using the quickest box that borgeson makes, which is probably around 16:1. No quickener for me. The ram can be limited internally or externally, i have done both using aluminum spacers

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