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Old 01-12-2016, 11:47 AM   #26 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by steve83 View Post
You might as well have typed everything in ALLCAPS!

The best way I've found to ID a D50IFS is the "50" cast into the bottom of the pig.



But if you have a BOM, you should be able to find it at one of these links:
http://www2.dana.com/pdf/X510-9.pdf
The Expert - Dana Holding Corporation Product Information for driveshafts, driveshafts, axles, and Drivelines.DraftSight is free, and nearly identical to AutoCad.
I'll try and pull the BOM tonight, but the diff is pretty rusty. If there was a D50 cast into it it's not there anymore... That's for the links for the BOM, I never remember to bookmark those
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Old 01-14-2016, 06:19 PM   #27 (permalink)
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I was able to get a little garage time in last night to finish up the truss's skid.
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Next step will be to either assemble the beams and clearance them for more travel (just keeping the option open but I'll more than likely be limiting travel to keep the u-joints alive) or else I'll start on the crossmember. I've seen a few tubular designs and one in particular that used plate for the mounts (https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...avalanche.html) and I'm starting to think I like the plate idea more. I'll need to spend some time under the Blazer to see how much support the frame rails need from this crossmember or if this is going to solely be for mounting the pivots.
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Old 01-18-2016, 07:55 AM   #28 (permalink)
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Got some garage time in Friday once the girls went to bed, so I fired up my buddy's propane heater he lent me and got to work.

Started with hanging the TTB beams and getting the knuckles on loosely. I had to destroy both uppers to get the knuckles off, so they're definitely not on the beams tightly. I ended up hammered the nuts on to keep the knuckles up.
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I put the beams at full bump to get a visual on how much room I now have for the coils. I had a solid estimate on paper, but paper to real world doesn't always mesh. I have roughly 5.5" of room now for a coil bucket, which should be more than enough for a stock F150 coil.
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Next step was to get the shafts the right length so I know how to clearance the beams. A 76' Ford D44 inner shaft sacrificed itself to make this happen.
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Old 01-18-2016, 08:17 AM   #29 (permalink)
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I'm lengthening the shafts by cutting them in half and welding in a 2" section. I know, the world is going to explode and kill all the nuns and bunnies and unicorns because I'm doing this but it'll be fine. Ian from Extreme did this to get by and it's common practice in the budget desert scene and they get by. They don't see the torque crawlers do, but as long as I play nicely with the skinny pedal they'll hold long enough for me save up for custom length chromos from Performance Cryo. I've always gone straight to Dean for my shafts, and while his lead times can get long (one man show with a LOT on his plate), the guy is great to work with and does great work for an incredibly reasonable price. Locally they want 400% more than what Dean charges me for shafts AND shipping, I'll put it that way.

I put a 1/2" wide and deep bevel on the shafts.
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Clamped everything solid in angled steel
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And then make 2 seconds worth of metal glue. I then waited 25-30 minutes with the heater on them to cool them off, rotated the shaft, re-set up the clamps, and then welded again for 2 seconds. I only got 1 shaft done in 3 hours.

To verify how true I was able to keep the shaft I flap disked the welds down and put a straight edge on it in 3 places. I wasn't able to get a feeler gauge between them anywhere.
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I have one more shaft to weld up and disk smooth. I'm ordering steel to turn on the lathe to open up the ID so it's a slight interference fit over the shafts to sleeve the welds. It's currently -30 with wind chill and I start a 6 class semester, so I don't see myself getting that done until the weekend.
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Old 01-18-2016, 09:44 AM   #30 (permalink)
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I like the diff armor. And I know all too well about what's solid on paper but the parts will school you in the end. I missed literally 2 details that I couldn't see until the fabrication was complete and parts could move on their own in real time versus puppet strings, tape measures and vise grip mockup stage.
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Old 01-18-2016, 11:33 AM   #31 (permalink)
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I like the diff armor. And I know all too well about what's solid on paper but the parts will school you in the end. I missed literally 2 details that I couldn't see until the fabrication was complete and parts could move on their own in real time versus puppet strings, tape measures and vise grip mockup stage.
Thanks. The diff "skid" was a serious pain to fit and after a few failed attempts with cardboard I ended up getting it close, tacking, and hammering it into place. So it's not perfect, but it's not too far off and in all reality is just going to get the snot beat out of it anyhow.

As tight of tolerances as what you're running I couldn't imagine getting things right on paper....
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Old 01-23-2016, 10:55 PM   #32 (permalink)
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Had some time this weekend between homework, seeing my wife for the first time all week, and actually getting some sleep (17 credits of engineering classes while working 50+ hours a week WITH a 4 year old....)

I was able to finish the DS axle shaft:
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I don't have all the pictures I should, but I assembled the beams and flexed everything out to find where to clearance the beams. The PS beam almost immediately made contact with the shaft, so I made a few marks and out came the plasma...
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I plated the clearancing to keep cracking/bending at bay:
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I reassembled everything just to check for any other potential issues and everything looked great.
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Old 01-23-2016, 10:59 PM   #33 (permalink)
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I gained 8-10" of wheel travel when the D/S is at full stuff. When both beams are at full droop I'm sure that 1350 u-joint won't appreciate life.... I'll limit travel to keep the u-joint from seeing any more than 35*'s of angle between the two beams. Overall I'm happy and ready to get going on the crossmember once I have a free weekend. I just need to verify a few measurements (axial height from the current hubs to bottom of the frame and frame width) and I'll be good to to start bending some tube.
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Old 01-23-2016, 11:23 PM   #34 (permalink)
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Are 17 credits just so you can figure out the steering?

No TTB advice or experience to contribute but otherwise looks like the end result will be bitchin.
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Old 01-24-2016, 07:19 AM   #35 (permalink)
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Are 17 credits just so you can figure out the steering?

No TTB advice or experience to contribute but otherwise looks like the end result will be bitchin.
TTB steering isn't difficult in concept, but packaging is a nightmare... The only things to ensure are the pivots and tie rod lengths are identical to the beams'-similar to the ideal draglink and trackbar setup. Equal lengths and angles are all it is.

Steering on this is going to be sort of a bitch compared to a D44 version since these beams have the pivots so close. The plan is still to use the Chevy box and idler for a dual swing setup, but that's a ways off...
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Old 01-24-2016, 10:58 AM   #36 (permalink)
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Ok I get the equal length stuff. So you're thinking a traditional ifs with idler arm instead of swing set?
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Old 01-24-2016, 11:12 AM   #37 (permalink)
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Keep in mind the steering position you want for the heims/TRE's/whatever is on a line that passes through the frame pivots as well as the radius arm mounts. So your spread at the steering joints is going to be larger than the spacing of the beam pivots. It's not as simple as just making them the same length/angle as the beams.
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Old 01-24-2016, 12:40 PM   #38 (permalink)
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Ok I get the equal length stuff. So you're thinking a traditional ifs with idler arm instead of swing set?
That's my plan, but I doubt I'll be able to pull it off. Especially since Vetteboy keeps raining on my parade with new info I hadn't thought of, read, or figured out the hard way yet....

@vetteboy79, I guess I'm not following where the radius arm mounts come into play here.... you want the steering links' movement to be identical to that of the beams, correct? So as long as the beam pivots and steering pivots are identical in separation, along with equal lengths to the beams, they should swing the same arc, correct?
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:29 PM   #39 (permalink)
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That's my plan, but I doubt I'll be able to pull it off. Especially since Vetteboy keeps raining on my parade with new info I hadn't thought of, read, or figured out the hard way yet....

@vetteboy79, I guess I'm not following where the radius arm mounts come into play here.... you want the steering links' movement to be identical to that of the beams, correct? So as long as the beam pivots and steering pivots are identical in separation, along with equal lengths to the beams, they should swing the same arc, correct?
With an infinite-length radius arm, technically, sure.

The beams don't just swing vertically though, they're more like big A-arms mounted on a diagonal, with the other side of the A being the rigidly-joined radius arm. As it droops the radius arm will also pull it backwards, which if you only do an equal-length/equal-angle steering link, will cause the tire to toe in during droop. If you mount the steering along that same axis that the big A-arm pivots on, then it'll follow the arc more closely and not have the same toe-in effect during droop.

That also means the height of the linkage is important too - almost moreso from what I remember, in that you can fudge the left-to-right placement an inch or two and not really see a big change, but getting the height of the steering pivot close to that imaginary line makes a much larger difference.

These pictures really illustrate that point (from the AGR TTB build):





You can see the length difference between the steering link and the driver side beam.
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Old 01-24-2016, 02:43 PM   #40 (permalink)
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With an infinite-length radius arm, technically, sure.

The beams don't just swing vertically though, they're more like big A-arms mounted on a diagonal, with the other side of the A being the rigidly-joined radius arm. As it droops the radius arm will also pull it backwards, which if you only do an equal-length/equal-angle steering link, will cause the tire to toe in during droop. If you mount the steering along that same axis that the big A-arm pivots on, then it'll follow the arc more closely and not have the same toe-in effect during droop.

That also means the height of the linkage is important too - almost moreso from what I remember, in that you can fudge the left-to-right placement an inch or two and not really see a big change, but getting the height of the steering pivot close to that imaginary line makes a much larger difference.

These pictures really illustrate that point (from the AGR TTB build):





You can see the length difference between the steering link and the driver side beam.
I hadn't thought of that, thank you. Well that sort of works in my favor then as the pitman and idler arm locations are significantly wider than the TTB pivots.

Now I'm understanding why the steering for TTB's are such a taboo...
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Old 01-24-2016, 03:03 PM   #41 (permalink)
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Also, make sure you clearance the center joint yokes so they don't bind under full droop. Suck as this: TRS Magazine - Dana 35 u-joint snapring upgrade

About mid way down the page.
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Old 01-24-2016, 04:29 PM   #42 (permalink)
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Also, make sure you clearance the center joint yokes so they don't bind under full droop. Suck as this: TRS Magazine - Dana 35 u-joint snapring upgrade

About mid way down the page.
That'll potentially happen when I pull the shafts to sleeve the welds. I need to verify that the yokes will even need to be clearanced as the sleeving is going to make things a little tighter (I'll have to limit travel sooner). I don't want to open up the beam's anymore than what I had to to fit a stock diameter shaft.

What I do still need to figure out is the size and length spring for the c-clip eliminator...
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Old 01-27-2016, 10:00 AM   #43 (permalink)
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What I do still need to figure out is the size and length spring for the c-clip eliminator...
It's pretty easy to just hand-bend a short section of old D-cell flashlight battery spring into a clip similar to what CV shaft has inside a transaxle.



It's MUCH easier, quicker, & cleaner than cramming a spring into the slip joint.
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Old 01-27-2016, 11:48 AM   #44 (permalink)
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It's pretty easy to just hand-bend a short section of old D-cell flashlight battery spring into a clip similar to what CV shaft has inside a transaxle.



It's MUCH easier, quicker, & cleaner than cramming a spring into the slip joint.
That's an amazing idea and that's exactly what I'll be doing. Awesome. Thank you.
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Old 02-07-2016, 03:09 PM   #45 (permalink)
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I haven't barely had time to mess with anything lately due to school and whatnot, but my blazer needed a tune up something fierce and since that went so smoothly I made time for an hour or so in the garage to mess with this TTB nonsense. I had mounted the beams and clearanced everything for the shafts and that left me with having to figure out the crossmember situation next. I tried getting all the measurements I wanted with the beams mounted and the crossmember attached to the frame rails but that just wasn't happening so out came the plasma:

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Ford did NOT want that crossmember to ever be removed. It was riveted, welded, and then more rivets hidden behind more welded panels. Cranked er up to 60 amps and made quick work of that.

Tossed the crossmember up on the bench and started measuring. Original plan was to reuse the Ford crossmember but that eventually rolled into a tubular design. Well after some tape measure time I realized how that would be far from my best option... From the bottom of Ford's frame rails to the axial centerline of the TTB gives me ~10.25" and the Blazer's is 4". I'm going for 2" more height when I build this to fit 35's, so that means the TTB pivots need to be 6" below the Blazer's frame rails.

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I'm thinking my best option at this point will be to build a plate crossmember-one for each beam. Similar to this: https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/9954455-post10.html. I'll be breaking out the graph paper at work to figure out a design that doesn't get in the way of the beams as they swing upward.

Back to homework.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:36 PM   #46 (permalink)
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Nice.
Got a pile of D50 bits waiting for me to do something else with them. I already fucked up one vehicle with them as badly as possible, you look to be doing a lot better on the geometry side of things than I was.
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Old 02-07-2016, 04:39 PM   #47 (permalink)
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Nice.
Got a pile of D50 bits waiting for me to do something else with them. I already fucked up one vehicle with them as badly as possible, you look to be doing a lot better on the geometry side of things than I was.
That's at least what I'm going to try and get everyone to believe

After reading spdr's idea of using a D50 3rd member for IFS/IRS I have a feeling my next major build will incorporate that. These D50's are a dime a dozen and 9" housings are everywhere, so it's hard not to want to try...
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Old 02-29-2016, 06:37 AM   #48 (permalink)
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Got a few hours this weekend to get going on the crossmember. I triple checked all my measurements between the beams and the Blazer's frame before plasma cutting the brackets out. (I'm more than likely going to be cutting the front of the frame up to make it level since it has some weird bends for the IFS)
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Drilled the pivot holes for 9/16" hardware, tacked all the brackets together and flip disc-ed them to a uniform size (24 grit made very quick work of that), and like an idiot used the plasma cutter to blow the 1.75" holes through all 4 plates for the tube that's tying the crossmember together. I couldn't find my holesaw, more than likely lost in the move out of my shop, and was impatient. Well this caused a problem you'll see in a bit.
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The width of the pivot brackets is 1.75", so using a drop piece of tube worked perfectly to help get everything aligned. I tacked everything up onto rect. tube to get the brackets parallel and square, tightened the hardware down, and then clamped the brackets to the drop piece of tube and ran a tape measure everywhere to make sure I didn't change the distance between the pivot mounts. I'm within 1/16", which I don't see being an issue.
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Old 02-29-2016, 07:05 AM   #49 (permalink)
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So here you can see the problem with using a plasma to burn holes through 1" of plate... I run an Esab Powecut that severs 1.25", but it's not so clean on 1" freehand. Hind sight is very 20/20...
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And here's the real MF-er. I made sure to clamp the backet side to side, but I just didn't think to check if it were straight vertically. So overlooking 5 min of work is going to run me 1-2 hours of cutting tacks, cleaning up the bracket, straightening it, re-squaring everything, and tacking it back up.
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Everything is going to stay tack welded until final fitment on the Blazer. Then there will be tube tying in the brackets near the pivots and dimpled 16 gauge between each pivot's brackets to keep everything tied together, stiff, and fast looking.
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Old 02-29-2016, 08:23 AM   #50 (permalink)
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Love it I'll be following this. I want to do a suburban for Baja exploration and prerunning with TTB.
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