Dumb steering angle question - Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum
 
Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum  

Go Back   Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum > General Tech > General 4x4 Discussion
Notices

Reply
 
Share LinkBack Thread Tools Display Modes
Old 03-30-2016, 06:55 PM   #1 (permalink)
www.patparts.com
 
patooyee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4821
Location: WeFlo
Posts: 12,565
Dumb steering angle question

I've never worried much about steering angle. Mainly because I've had rear steer for so long and before that no one really cared about steering angles. But right now I'm drawing a mockup in cad of some axles and I need to know where the tires will be at full lock so I am having to worry about it. When people say they have 45* steering, is that 22.5* in each direction for a combined total of 45* or 45* in each direction for a combined total of 90*? I've got both drawn out. One seems like not enough, the other seems like so much that very few axles could handle it before a big tire hit the front driveshaft. I know that when you see an axle actually turning 45* it looks broken though so maybe my eyes just aren't used to it and a lot of people just don't have what they think they do.
__________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

patooyee is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-30-2016, 07:09 PM   #2 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2007
Member # 102813
Location: PNW, land of liquid sunshine
Posts: 8,894
Mine is 47* in one direction, Starting at a straight forward 0*. Its not a combined sweep.
Attached Images
 
__________________
[COLOR="Magenta"]Help bring back Swartz Canyon, Join
To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Lime"]The good guys...[/COLOR]

[COLOR="Red"]Marlin Crawler, Hellfire Fabworks, Dave'z Offroad, gearinstalls.com (Zuk), Diamond Axle, RADesigns, Advanced Adapters, Jantz Engineering, G-Fab motorsports, Got Propane, JHF [/COLOR]

Last edited by Mr Stubs; 03-30-2016 at 07:11 PM.
Mr Stubs is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Sponsored Links
Old 03-30-2016, 08:23 PM   #3 (permalink)
www.patparts.com
 
patooyee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4821
Location: WeFlo
Posts: 12,565
Thank you!
patooyee is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
 
Old 03-30-2016, 08:38 PM   #4 (permalink)
Under Powered
 
onlyonedr's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2003
Member # 19543
Posts: 902
Remember that due to Ackerman the inside tire turns sharper than the outside tire, like in the picture above. Both tires do not rotate to the same angle for a given steering wheel position. The overall swing should be the same side to side.
__________________
'01 Nissan KC Desert Runner: Work in Progress
'69 Chevy K5: Non-Wheeling Fun Rig
NOAS Club Membership Coordinator and Treasurer 2016-2017

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
onlyonedr is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 08:25 AM   #5 (permalink)
Zeus of the Sluice
 
B.A.R.K's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Member # 8540
Location: Lafayette, LA
Posts: 5,762
Quote:
Originally Posted by onlyonedr View Post
Remember that due to Ackerman the inside tire turns sharper than the outside tire, like in the picture above. Both tires do not rotate to the same angle for a given steering wheel position.
All of that depends on steering arm design. Jessie Haines runs reverse Ackerman so that the outside tire turns shaper than the inside, for various reasons.
__________________
92YJ/2.5L/HD4:1D300/F&R D44/5:38/36 SX/99"WB

Nothing is stronger than stupid...
B.A.R.K is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 09:19 AM   #6 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Blase's Avatar
 
Join Date: Dec 2005
Member # 63692
Location: Carencro, Louisiana
Posts: 2,388
patooyee I have some cad drawings of my old buggy. I can email them if you'd like. auto cad LITE files.....probably 2002 version.

Inside tire turned 43* and the outside 47* in reality. I didn't take Ackerman into account in my drawing.



The narrower you are the harder it is to get extreme steering! My WMS on the front was 62" after I added the spacers. Tires hit everything in reality and nothing in my CAD drawing.
__________________
[QUOTE=JR;13666387]:laughing: You know, Ifs is kinda like a vagine. It's soft,sexy and expensive.[/QUOTE]
Blase is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 09:28 AM   #7 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Oct 2000
Member # 1889
Location: Firestone, Colorado, USA
Posts: 11,450
Quote:
Originally Posted by B.A.R.K View Post
All of that depends on steering arm design. Jessie Haines runs reverse Ackerman so that the outside tire turns shaper than the inside, for various reasons.
I usually set my own stuff up for zero or near-zero Ackerman for maximum angle.

45 from straight does look broken. And unless you're running really wide axles and really narrow chassis, is hard to fit the tires.

I remember thinking we had a nice hot-ticket setup that would steer a legitimate 43 from straight, how broken it looked, how tight it turned... and the very next comp out rolls a Twisted Customs car with prototype 1550 knuckles that turned about 60 degrees.
Scott@Rockstomper is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 11:20 AM   #8 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Member # 159557
Location: Central Missouri
Posts: 1,258
Quote:
Originally Posted by Blase View Post
Tires hit everything in reality and nothing in my CAD drawing.
Currently in same boat. 50 degrees was easy to get digitally, just didn't transfer to real world very well. Looks like I'm settling for about 43.

Quote:
Originally Posted by B.A.R.K View Post
All of that depends on steering arm design. Jessie Haines runs reverse Ackerman so that the outside tire turns shaper than the inside, for various reasons.
Anybody got a link to past conversations on this subject? Curious what his thoughts are on 0 vs. reverse.
JETHROBODEAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 11:35 AM   #9 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Member # 8937
Location: Sparks, Nevada
Posts: 6,145
Set your Ackerman to give you the greatest combined turning angle. If your inside tire hits the links at 43, why not set the outside tire to turn 50? I guarantee it will turn sharper than both tires at 43 or 100% Ackerman with one tire at 43 and the outside tire at 38. My new car has neutral steering, with both tires turning 45 because my CV's will only allow 45.

Quote:
Originally Posted by JETHROBODEAN View Post
Currently in same boat. 50 degrees was easy to get digitally, just didn't transfer to real world very well. Looks like I'm settling for about 43.



Anybody got a link to past conversations on this subject? Curious what his thoughts are on 0 vs. reverse.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

September 24-25, Wild West Motorsports Park, Reno, NV

#199/4499 - Superchips, Maxxis, Trail Gear, Branik Machine Shop, Yukon, JE Reel, Rugged Radios, Lifetime LED, Sway-a-way.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mudtruck44 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 11:38 AM   #10 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: May 2010
Member # 159557
Location: Central Missouri
Posts: 1,258
Makes perfect sense, thanks.
JETHROBODEAN is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 11:41 AM   #11 (permalink)
www.patparts.com
 
patooyee's Avatar
 
Join Date: May 2001
Member # 4821
Location: WeFlo
Posts: 12,565
Quote:
Originally Posted by mudtruck44 View Post
Set your Ackerman to give you the greatest combined turning angle. If your inside tire hits the links at 43, why not set the outside tire to turn 50? I guarantee it will turn sharper than both tires at 43 or 100% Ackerman with one tire at 43 and the outside tire at 38. My new car has neutral steering, with both tires turning 45 because my CV's will only allow 45.
I never measured turning radius but, on my last rig, I set the front rockwell up with reverse ackerman initially. I ended up changing to correct ackerman just as a side effect of changing ram setups. I noticed a definite improvement in turning radius that I wasn't even expecting.
__________________


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

patooyee is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 01:05 PM   #12 (permalink)
Rock God
 
ISDTBower's Avatar
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Member # 94026
Location: Palo Alto, CA
Posts: 2,386
I know my LJ doesn't turn worth a crap locked, and secondly with the rear locked.

That subject was talked about on the trails in Moab last week. Interesting how many are now running just front wheel drive locked and unlocked. This minimizes bind through the transfer-case. Zero Ackerman for racing to bite the outside front and Ackerman for general wheeling with grip.
ISDTBower is online now   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 01:18 PM   #13 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Jul 2010
Member # 164791
Location: Woodland Park, CO
Posts: 344
Here is what 40* looks like, i think it looks broken...

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/gener...l#post29959938

I setup mine so that the inside tire turns 40* (outside turns 36*)...

Last edited by boing.; 03-31-2016 at 01:19 PM.
boing. is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Old 03-31-2016, 02:22 PM   #14 (permalink)
Registered User
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Member # 8937
Location: Sparks, Nevada
Posts: 6,145
Quote:
Originally Posted by patooyee View Post
I never measured turning radius but, on my last rig, I set the front rockwell up with reverse ackerman initially. I ended up changing to correct ackerman just as a side effect of changing ram setups. I noticed a definite improvement in turning radius that I wasn't even expecting.
Essentially what you did was went from the inside tire turning 30 and the outside turning 35 to the inside turning 35 and the outside turning 30. I would agree that if you had to choose one or the other, the correct Ackerman would turn tighter. That's not the same as what I described above though.
__________________

To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.

September 24-25, Wild West Motorsports Park, Reno, NV

#199/4499 - Superchips, Maxxis, Trail Gear, Branik Machine Shop, Yukon, JE Reel, Rugged Radios, Lifetime LED, Sway-a-way.


To view links or images in signatures your post count must be 10 or greater. You currently have 0 posts.
mudtruck44 is offline   Reply With Quote Quick reply to this message
Reply

Quick Reply
Message:
Options

Register Now

In order to be able to post messages on the Pirate4x4.Com : 4x4 and Off-Road Forum forums, you must first register.
Please enter your desired user name, your email address and other required details in the form below.
User Name:
Password
Please enter a password for your user account. Note that passwords are case-sensitive.
Password:
Confirm Password:
Email Address
Please enter a valid email address for yourself.

** A VERIFICATION EMAIL IS SENT TO THIS ADDRESS TO COMPLETE REGISTRATION!! **

Email Address:
Insurance
Please select your insurance company (Optional)

Log-in


Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On



All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:51 AM.


Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.8.8 Beta 4
Copyright ©2000 - 2019, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Search Engine Optimization by vBSEO 3.6.0 ©2011, Crawlability, Inc.
User Alert System provided by Advanced User Tagging (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.
vBulletin Security provided by vBSecurity v2.2.2 (Pro) - vBulletin Mods & Addons Copyright © 2019 DragonByte Technologies Ltd.