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Old 07-13-2017, 12:04 PM   #1 (permalink)
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Coil bind problem solver

Coil springs can bind through the travel of the shock causing the spring to buckle in the center. If you see wear and scuff marks in the body of your shocks this is most likely the cause. We have created a sealed bearing that sits on the top or bottom of the spring that relieves some of the spring tension as the spring tries to rotate through its travel. This has had success in the circle track market, and was wondering if this is something that could help you guys out. We can do different sizes. Some of you have probably already seen similar products, but these have a rubber seal around them protecting them from the elements.
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Old 07-13-2017, 12:07 PM   #2 (permalink)
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Coil springs can bind through the travel of the shock causing the spring to buckle in the center. If you see wear and scuff marks in the body of your shocks this is most likely the cause. We have created a sealed bearing that sits on the top or bottom of the spring that relieves some of the spring tension as the spring tries to rotate through its travel. This has had success in the circle track market, and was wondering if this is something that could help you guys out. We can do different sizes. Some of you have probably already seen similar products, but these have a rubber seal around them protecting them from the elements.
How about a picture or link?
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Old 07-13-2017, 01:43 PM   #3 (permalink)
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Pictures

It all fits together as one unit, i pulled it apart for the pictures. We only make 2.5 inch right now but we are willing to do any size if there is a need.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:30 PM   #4 (permalink)
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Interesting. Myself, and I believe lots of other people, are running the AGM or PAC sliders which rotate, albeit without a roller bearing, but I have yet to see a solution like this.

I'm wondering if there is a benefit to running both upper and lower, as well as slider, moveable seats. My gut tells me it may allow the springs to find their lowest combined height naturally by rotating independently as they wear in. But I have no idea if that is a benefit or just something theoretical that really means nothing at the end of the day.
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Old 07-13-2017, 02:37 PM   #5 (permalink)
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Is there any worry about brinelling given the rigors of off roading?
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:19 PM   #6 (permalink)
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Pirate folklore / general prior knowledge / discussion has indicated that spring buckling is the result of cheap / crappy springs and if you just spend enough on the right manufacturer's product you won't have that problem. Is this a complete fix for that, a partial fix, or do these have any implication on that school of thought?
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Old 07-13-2017, 06:27 PM   #7 (permalink)
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These have been available in the past (and probably still present) from other manufacturers. It's never really taken off.

Most bowing springs I see aren't ground squarely or wound straight.
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Old 07-13-2017, 08:35 PM   #8 (permalink)
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I did something similar on my bench vise, you guys might consider making something for that market. It would be nice to have one sealed against shop grit.

My junk sits on jack stands, so I cant speak to the original question.
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Old 07-14-2017, 05:54 AM   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by 93_Fummins View Post
Is there any worry about brinelling given the rigors of off roading?
Im sure they would brenell eventully. The question is...does it matter. Likely not, the bearings smoothness is not critical and its not pre tentioned, so it would not become loose from it.

Also the races are likely a good bit softer than the rollers and look to be easily replaced.
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Old 07-14-2017, 07:55 AM   #10 (permalink)
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These have been used in motocross for some time now.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:00 AM   #11 (permalink)
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We've always used these types of torrington bearings in the hot rod world to help quite noisey springs, especially in auto cross.
I'd be interested to see how they help with big coil overs.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:14 AM   #12 (permalink)
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Im sure they would brenell eventully. The question is...does it matter. Likely not, the bearings smoothness is not critical and its not pre tentioned, so it would not become loose from it.

Also the races are likely a good bit softer than the rollers and look to be easily replaced.
It might matter if the brinell trough prevents bearing roll and thus negates the function of the assembly. That may be an exaggerated theory, but it seems like the spring movement wouldn't be sufficient to get a good roll out of the bearings...but I run leaf springs, so I know nothing.
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Old 07-14-2017, 09:27 AM   #13 (permalink)
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They are used in road racing also, to reduce "stiction" during suspension movement. A coil spring twists as it compresses and extends.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:46 AM   #14 (permalink)
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Lots of good thoughts on this. We put a long coil spring in the chuck of the lathe and compressed it with the tail stock. I will have to try and get a video that shows how much the spring really does rotate on compression. Stephen has pointed out that the road racing guys use this to reduce "stiction" which is also probably why the motocross guys are using it. So i think this could be used to smooth out the friction between the spring cup and spring allowing it to coil properly.
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:48 AM   #15 (permalink)
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Patparts, this is why we are here to ask the fine people of pirate 4x4 for an educated opinion. In the circle track world, even the most expensive springs will start to buckle in the middle. And those are only 9 inch springs!
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Old 07-18-2017, 06:55 AM   #16 (permalink)
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Is there any worry about brinelling given the rigors of off roading?

I would assume that brinelling on this type of bearing is pretty unavoidable, given the circumstances. As someone pointed out that is the nice thing about the torrington bearing is that it is not set, or pre-loaded in any way. And unlike lets say a wheel bearing, if this bearing decided to fail you would not be stuck out on the trail.
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Old 04-21-2019, 10:31 AM   #17 (permalink)
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Any update on these? Anyone try them?
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