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Old 12-28-2017, 09:20 PM   #76 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by gt1guy View Post
Can't swing a dead hooker without hitting an 4x4 '40 Buick these days.



No info on it, but by the sticker, it ran in the Rally LeMons.
oh fawk yeah! i hope i can be at least that cool
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Old 12-29-2017, 08:52 PM   #77 (permalink)
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Here is the panel wagon crawler.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hHctT22HQ0c

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=A7z3XG56znQ
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:53 AM   #78 (permalink)
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That's it! Again, I see this turning into a beautiful raisin like that. Watching the build !
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Old 12-30-2017, 07:51 AM   #79 (permalink)
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I don't think i've seen that one before, nice looking body work on that guy

for the most part i've got more of a tear drop shape to this body so it *might* not get so bad so quick.

I was able to get a material quote back from Scot Industries down the way in about a day, i called Tacoma Steel wednesday morning ish and still haven't heard back from them

looks like right around $820 for

2 sticks 1.75x0.095
2 sticks 1.75x0.188
7 sticks 1.75x0.120
10LF 1.5x0.120
10LF 2.0x0.250

using numbers based off my MS Paint drawings. hopefully this weekend i can get some time in bend tech and get some better numbers, might need to be next weekend.


edit: so i bought bend tech pro a little bit ago and it really is a great system. trying to figure out how to do this and Lo and Behold! the 'xyz' input system is available on SE and IND as well as the large radius bend and mult. dies for a single tube ahhhhh, well i think in XYZ format, so looks like i'm going to need to do a bit more math and pencil and paper time to save myself ~$200

so, in the words of the great smewhtguy (may his password ever rest in peace) "if you are going to build bumpers and cages get a bender. if you are going to build a chassis, get a tube roller" and it shall be thusly modified "if you are going to build a chassis, get bend tech SE"


edit2 or3: turns out bend tech pro has a 'bump bend' feature for us non roller folks. neat! thanks bend tech for having great tech support!
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:48 AM   #80 (permalink)
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I got a quote for 4 sticks of 1.75 .120 DOM from my supplier for $590!
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Old 12-30-2017, 08:53 AM   #81 (permalink)
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Quote:
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I got a quote for 4 sticks of 1.75 .120 DOM from my supplier for $590!
obviously prices are all subject to change at any moment, but yeah for $2.52/lf for the 1.75x120 isn't bad to me. couple towns down the road and i've got to pick it up. i tried one of those "metals online" whathave you instant quote places and the same material quoted out closer to $3000 for that price, i'd be more than happy to buy a goat built pallet of already cut metal!



edit: making some progress in bend tech. some notes for myself and others, yellow is links at ride height, pink is links +6" (full stuff), Red tube is 1.75x.188 dark green is 1.75x.120 light green is 1.75x.095. saved a bit over 20 lbs by using 95 instead of 120 wall just on those little braces

this is using a subframe 'depth' of 9" and puts the total subframe weight around 180lbs (head math instead of real math to subtract out weight of links) entire assembly with one set of links was 242lbs

Iso view

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side view

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Playing around with this i noticed my front upper link was going to be waaaay out in space being that short, so i stretched it out a bunch and made it a bit easier to mount in real life, should still have plenty of clearance for the front driveshaft.

more measuring of car, more guestimating where seats will go, more guestimating of tube placement and i should be able to get a fairly close total LF count
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Last edited by Provience; 12-30-2017 at 11:32 AM.
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Old 12-30-2017, 12:51 PM   #82 (permalink)
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How heavy are you thinking this beast will end up weighing? If you're going to end up on the high side of 5K you might want to think about 2" for the main cage structure. Just a thought.

Just remember that Buick was made out of real metal. I've been modifying the hood/firewall/floors of my JK...........it wasn't made out of real metal and sucks.

I wish I could get the prices on DOM you guys are getting. Hell, I had a hard time just finding someone who sold it.
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:28 PM   #83 (permalink)
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How heavy are you thinking this beast will end up weighing? If you're going to end up on the high side of 5K you might want to think about 2" for the main cage structure. Just a thought.

Just remember that Buick was made out of real metal. I've been modifying the hood/firewall/floors of my JK...........it wasn't made out of real metal and sucks.

I wish I could get the prices on DOM you guys are getting. Hell, I had a hard time just finding someone who sold it.
i'll have a better idea of the overall weight this weekend or maybe tuesday. bendtech is pretty handy for giving out weights of material, so once i know how much the chassis will be 'roundabouts i'll have a better idea. it will be fun to measure the theoretical guess weight before hand and then have the actual net weight once it is all done with wiriing and lights and shit

https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/shop-...ing-scale.html

made myself a spring scale that is accurate enough for guess work and car building.

didn't take pictures of everything, but here is another number dump. it is much easier for me to read my notes on here rather than the stack of cardboard they come on

scale

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and in action

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Rear axle with the roller tires and factory aluminium wheels and 2"x0.250" lower links with joints resting on ground weighs 482 lbs

Front axle without brakes, with panhard and steering links 294 lbs

2005 iron block 5.3 with all this crap on it, nearly ready to run 518 lbs

TH350, NP203, D300 with torque converter 381 lbs

sooooo yeah about 1700 lbs just in parts to make it run

plus my current subframe and rest of links estimate puts me right around 2000 lbs edit: 2650 with tires



edit: acccording to the ultra4 rulebook, anything over 4400 lbs in race trim needs to be 2"x.120 main cage. so we'll see but i'll be close or nearly alright. race trim would be no fenders, basically the hood the beak and the skinned cab is all i'm using for trailer duty.



also adding this image in, i weighed my tires a while ago. 37" pitbull rocker radials on recentered hum vee wheels with PVC inserts and rock rings 161 lbs each (thanks trail worthy fab!)

PRP lists their premier line of seats at 20 lbs each, i'll probably end up with 2 that are oversized and 2 that are the lite version, so figure on 80lbs worth of seats

new total 2730
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Old 12-30-2017, 03:53 PM   #84 (permalink)
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another post with a whole bunch of numbers

drag link centered is 13-1/2" offset drivers side
dodge van steering box is inside frame mount forward swing pitman arm
toyota ifs box is rear swing pitman outside of frame mount

44" rear axle shock mount width
41" front axle shock mount width
34" rear axle bump pad width
31" front axle bump pad width

in no particular order

48" B Pillar floor to roof
30" A pillar floor to base of windshield
21" hypotenuse A pillar base of windshield to roof
23" A pillar at top of windshield to B pillar
35" A pillar to B pillar at base of windshield
18" windshield split from dash to roof
48" roof to floor at windshield split
53" B pillar roof width
48" A pillar roof width
54" C pillar roof width
23" B to C pillar along roof
29-1/2" B to C pillar at base of rear quarter window
24" B to C at florr
53" D pillar at quarter window width
57" C pillar width at door hinge
40" C to D along the roof line to the top of the trunk
48" D pillar wide at top of trunk
29"ish top of trunk to floor
42" Firewall width
29" firewall to front axle centerline
49" B pillar to firewall
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Old 12-31-2017, 11:19 AM   #85 (permalink)
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And here is an estimator closeish enoughish bendtech of the whole thing

open to feedback and critiques and comments

Green is for subframe, blue is for chassis

Dark Blue/Green is 1.75x0.120 tube
Light Blue/Green is 1.75x0.095
Light Pink is 1.50x0.120
Red is 1.75x0.188

suspension

uppers and pahard are 1.75x0.120
lowers are 2.0x0.250

2D 3view

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Iso

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Side

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Top

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Front

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Old 12-31-2017, 11:27 AM   #86 (permalink)
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this is the details view for the whole shebop with the at flex links removed.

no joints, no weld wire, not all tubes connected, puts the tube weight including links at 688-1/2 LBS

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also revised tube estimates are:

1.75x0.120 205 LF = 11 sticks (guessed 7) changing order to 240 LF
1.75x0.095 81 LF = 5 sticks (guessed 2) changing order to 96 LF
1.75x0.188 17 LF = 1 stick
1.50x0.120 6 LF = 1/2 stick
2.0x0.250 14 LF = 1/2 stick


edit: so that puts me at 3,083 lbs for the engine, trans, axles, links, chassis, seats, tires and wheels



edit2: i was asked the other day if i wanted an actual diagnosis for ADHD , on that note here is some more playing with tubes. swapped out a bunch more of the short ~<30" tubes from 0.120 to 0.095 wall.

difference in weight is 688-673=15 lbs.

not sure if i will go that far or maybe just swap out some of them. Also, it looks tall. granted, this is just to estimate tube at this point. currently 57" from the bottom of the subframe to top of the tubework, plus 21.5" for belly height puts the roof at 78.5" or 6-1/2 feet. hopefully i can get the roof height down about 6" to 6' overall when it's all said and done.

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Old 12-31-2017, 05:08 PM   #87 (permalink)
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Lookin good man. Keep it up.
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Old 12-31-2017, 05:23 PM   #88 (permalink)
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Thanks you for all the help! Good talking to you the other day

I sent you an email for a set of joints to the '[email protected]' email, if you didn't see anything, let me know and i'll try again



edit: adding in the rogue fab tech links



https://www.roguefab.com/tube-calculator/

https://www.roguefab.com/bending-101/

1.75x0.095 is 80% weight of 1.75x0.120
1.5x0.120 is 85% weight of 1.75x0.120


It is easier for me to just edit the last post as long as i'm just bringing in information:



PRP Premier Lite dimensions: 29" mounting eye to top of head rest
26" base of seat to top of head rest
20" outside at widest point
22" mounting eye to harness slot
24" outside back to front
16"x12" mounting pattern



PRP Premier Standard
31" mounting eye to top of head (33" for a +2) (35" for +4")
24" mounting eye to harness bar
29.5" base of seat to top of head rest
22" outside width (24" for a +2)
26" outside back to front
18"x14" mounting pattern

base MSRP $289
extra tall (+2 or +4) MSRP $324
extra tall (+4" or +2") AND +2" wide MSRP $354




PRP Comp Pro Highback
35" mounting eye to top of head
27" to harness bar
22" outside width
26" outside back to front
18"x14" mounting pattern

base MSRP $399
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Old 01-01-2018, 05:24 PM   #89 (permalink)
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Pulled the front axle apart to swap out the spool for the detroit. I pulled off the hubs earlier and sold them with my 8" axle, noticed something seemed a bit odd at the time that i didn't notice when i bought the setup

anyways, running my IFS hubs, so basically the whole thing is still just a stock IFS toyota pickup

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Kind of hard to tell, Trail-Gear 'made in USA' 30 spline birfs and shafts


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huh, that's not supposed to go there

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well dang, "Self" I said "Self, if this diff is full of gear oil, then I guess i did that somehow taking the bolts off and whacking it with a brass mallet to break the form a gasket" I said "dang Self, I shouldn't have hit it"

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First look, nope. no gear oil.

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Old 01-01-2018, 05:30 PM   #90 (permalink)
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Oh yeah, pot of gold

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Apparently the 'spool' was really just a welded stock carrier. the welds all failed and in the process ate the spider and side gear teeth and the shims/bushings that go behind them. Chunks of metal took chunks out of the cross pin and chipped some teeth on the ring gear and also caused the hole in the case. Apparently, with no weight on it it could grab just enough to spin in some spots no way in hell it would transfer any power with a tire on there and it would have made a helluva noise

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cleaned up the hole in the case a bit...i'll see if i can fix the case, but the carrier gears are absolutely shot. considering everything is 30 spline, maybe i can use some 4cyl side gears and something something magic have it all work

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Old 01-01-2018, 05:36 PM   #91 (permalink)
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So all the stuff also came with a mostly complete spare parts diff that was going to be the trailer spare

Picked up a used detroit from canada, going to see what i can do about making 1 diff from 2

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The ring gear bolts were TIGHT! except for 1 that came right out the detroit doesn't have the handy open holes or flat sides to make it easy to grab the way that stock carriers are, so i took an old broken 27 spline shaft and matched it up with my old front driveshaft tube

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glued it together, 2 passes going slow.

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just the ~18" tube wasn't enough to hold it. slipped a 5' pipe inside of that, put detroit on 30 spline shaft side, used 3/4" breaker bar and finally got them loose.

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didn't have any very large cups handy to press the old ring gear off, 6ton jack stand worked well

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Old 01-01-2018, 05:40 PM   #92 (permalink)
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every body likes comparison shots of gears, this is a toyota V6 8" 5.29 diff next to the 9.5" 4.56 ring gear. quite a bit more heft to the carrier itself

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9.5" ring gear is more thin and oddly enough uses smaller diameter bearings than the V6 diff. makes up for it in dimension. while i have it apart, i'm half tempted to put in a load bolt and go to 1/2" studs for the carrier bearings

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pinion difference, much more meat on the 9.5" pinion shaft

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Old 01-01-2018, 05:56 PM   #93 (permalink)
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You going to load bolt them?
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Old 01-01-2018, 06:02 PM   #94 (permalink)
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You going to load bolt them?
probably should, need to order in some bearings/shims/flange so it will be apart for a little bit anyways. going to be the front with a low pinion, i'm sure it would appreciate it.

the rear is an ARB, not sure that it will need it or have the space to do it. guess i might as well pull it apart and check

edit: guess if i can come up with enough extra parts to cobble together a spare diff cheap enough i'll toss a load bolt in there then


edit:
Quote:
The pre-'98 9.5"s have a ring gear bolt circle of 12 on 6.14"
https://www.pirate4x4.com/forum/toyot...load-bolt.html

damn, i just wanted to swap carriers and be done with this thing

Edit4: after a bunch of looking around, it seems that East Coast Gear Supply offers the best deal on a rebuild kit
https://eastcoastgearsupply.com/i-22...wn-master.html $200 for all the stuff plus $45 for the solid spacer w/shims.


edit2: back to the seats, sat against the wall and took some numbers;

me: 6'-2" tall
36" to back of head to wall
38" to top of head

wife: 5'-2" tall
31" to back of head to wall
34" top of head

kid (4yo) growing all the damn time
21" to back of head to wall
24" top of head

PRP makes a booster insert that is apparently standard at 3" thick, i'm sure they could make it whatever



edit again: need to write these guys down https://www.midweststeering.com/prod...ng-valve-kits/ midwest steering looks to sell their inhouse orbital with steering shaft with mount for less than anybody else will sell just an orbital

it just might be worth it to ditch the drag link and panhard and go 4 link and full hydro steering. won't have the same highway feel and i might need to rotate the knuckles, but it would make the front of the chassis a bit easier to design while not having to worry about making a spot to mount a big ol' steering box

http://www.billavista.com/Tech/Artic...ble/index.html

http://www.billavista.com/Tech/Artic...tor/index.html
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:13 AM   #95 (permalink)
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weekend update:

Made it down to Scot Industries to pick up the tube, just under $1200 and should be a little more than enough. I've gotta say, they have an awesome setup and great service. If you have one near you, check them out next time you need round tube or round bar. They were loading up some of their trucks when i got there so i got a tour of the place while i waited....damn near applied to work there after about 1/2 hour

anyways, tube was all 20-24' lengths and my garage is 20' long inside, so it looked like this for a couple days

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Needed an easy way to see what was what and wrote it down so that i can remember a month or two from now

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pulled a bunch of numbers out of bend tech that are my best guesses and least likely to change

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and pulled out the old precision band saw

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Old 01-07-2018, 08:18 AM   #96 (permalink)
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cut and stacked and much more tidy. i was contemplating making a rack for the shorts but don't know if I will ever get around to it. scot will cut to length whatever you want and i did get some short stuff, like the 2" and 1.5" but figured getting the full length and then cutting myself would save me some material overall. dunno

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also got stickers on the bender, so that is progress

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now that i don't have much of an excuse, planning on getting some final few tweaks in on bend tech and should be good to put the sub frame together next weekend or weekend after as time allows
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Old 01-07-2018, 08:41 AM   #97 (permalink)
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Subscribed, this is a really cool build. DURRRR
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YJ on Ton's

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Old 01-07-2018, 09:06 AM   #98 (permalink)
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Subscribed, this is a really build.
thanks! yeah, it is a something build...can't quite put my finger on it either

i did go sit in the buick on top of the old gas tank the other day, got to make vroom vroom noises and pretend to shift. Even convinced the wife to climb in #PracticallyDone
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up is difficult, down is dangerous

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Old 01-07-2018, 10:00 AM   #99 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Provience View Post
thanks! yeah, it is a something build...can't quite put my finger on it either

i did go sit in the buick on top of the old gas tank the other day, got to make vroom vroom noises and pretend to shift. Even convinced the wife to climb in #PracticallyDone
As I've said before, this is pretty fuckin cool! I was looking at my 53 willys wagon the other day dreaming of a build similar to this one. Needs a bunch of work, but would be a sweet compact wheeling/ racing machine. Now with seeing your tube work plans, you've really got me thinking hard about itmy wife is going to kill me!
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... Well first off FUCK JEEPS..
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Old 01-07-2018, 10:49 AM   #100 (permalink)
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As I've said before, this is pretty fuckin cool! I was looking at my 53 willys wagon the other day dreaming of a build similar to this one. Needs a bunch of work, but would be a sweet compact wheeling/ racing machine. Now with seeing your tube work plans, you've really got me thinking hard about itmy wife is going to kill me!
thanks i appreciate it! you should do it

I need to go reverify my numbers in real life one more time, but this looks like what i'm going to go for.

revised my upper link locations, updated them in the calculator to get things to line up a little better, pretty much convinced myself to scratch the 3 link and build for a 4link up front, swap out to full hydro instead of the assist setup that i have.

Front numbers

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Rear numbers

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triangle calc for the amount that the body narrows, one of those numbers i need to 'reverify' to make sure that i can be 6" ahead of the A pillar, or rather 42" ahead of the B pillar centerline without hanging out too far in front of the body

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according to the computer, my links shouldn't contact each other on flex. this shot i still have the old and much more straight upper link in there as well

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I couldn't figure out how to 'hide' tubes in bend tech to make this easier to see. the orange is the new upper link locations, the gray is the +6" stretch to the front sub frame and the red is still the .188 tube for the subframe. i only modified the passanger side. took out the wonky ass line i had in the rear of the subframe and aesthetically cleaned it up

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