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Old 02-24-2019, 05:56 PM   #201 (permalink)
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went ahead and cut a slot into my bracket, some days it is hard to tell if you make a part on a monday, some days it is obvious went and slotted this one side the wrong direction before first. #shtlbuffout

works now

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made a pattern for front lower links, they are at much less angle than the rears so i figured it would be easier to just mount them square to the frame and let the joint take up that little bit of twist

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puts my pinion about there, a few inches in front of the crank pulley so that 'should' be safe. we'll know everything later

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and i'm about 11" below the crank pulley, way plenty of space hopefully

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with all 4 brackets stacked up, the drill and a 1-3/4" sanding drum help clean up and match everything surprisingly well

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Old 02-24-2019, 06:05 PM   #202 (permalink)
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I also moved the car backwards in the garage almost a full foot, dang was it a hassle but well worth it.

thought this might make a fun picture, gentle tap with the chisel to break apart the sandwich after drilling and whatnot, seemed better in my head

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for reasons unknown to me at the moment, my engine is offset to the passanger side a little over an inch so i put the lower mount on the passanger side as far inboard as i could while still having space to get the welding gun around the tube and bracket without much hassle

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because these are in a sort of pocket and because the axle side mounts are an inch or so lower in the front than the rear, i put the centerline of the bolt as high as possible while still being able to clear out to the side for servicing.

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Now i need to cut and stack some wood so that i can drop the chassis down from the current "ride height" of 18" skid to ground to "full bump" of 11" skid to ground and i'll see where i can snake the upper links in. At the moment, i should have a significant amount of room and should be able to get some pretty good angle to them. time will tell.

also the more that i look at it, the less it looks like a driveshaft will fit what with the lower links being mounted axle side higher than the pinion output. might need to put a piece of spaghetti or a braid in there so that i can flop around things and still transmit power

lower links ended about 36" apart on the axle side, 18-1/2" apart on the frame side, 42-1/2" long and about 3-1/2" above axle centerline

Edit: so here is playing around with the calculator for the front upper guestimate numbers, at least it gives me something to see what i can get instead of just dropping the body then putting the uppers as high and tight on the axle side and as wide and a couple inches dropped on the chassis side (likely to happen anyways)

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for reference, lower links are currently at about a 12* angle each, so 'bout 24* between the two of 'em
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Old 03-23-2019, 06:44 PM   #203 (permalink)
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back in town and got to spend some time sitting in the garage.

found a way to get this thing off of jack stands and lowered 7", engine hoist on the front and floor jack on the rear

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it was sitting about 18" to the belly previously, now with 2 stacks of 4x4 and 2 stax of 2x4 it is about 11". in theory this should be my full bump, and now it will be in practice

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I'm not fancy enough to have even a cheap home made weld turning jig thing, so a few degrees, stop, rotate, few more degrees. welding at home is so much more relaxing than welding for money

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for some reason i can never remember to make or order a 7/8" x something LH thread tube adapter, so i tacked the old cut up one in backwards so that i won't forget

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made half of a bracket for a frame side upper mount, put it in place and it was binding so had to recut out some material

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Old 03-23-2019, 06:47 PM   #204 (permalink)
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this is as high and tight as i can reasonably get the upper link, took some measurements and need to draw out the brackets for the axle side

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not much, but some angle is better than none

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and pulled the power steering pulley off. This didn't feel like the most safe way to do it, but it worked and dat sumbitch was on there hard

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edit: i also want to cross post the link to the hydraulics thread in here so that i can find it later.
trying to make a better circuit

edit2: notes about front 4 link numbers, looks like where i've got it about set now would net about 18% anti-dive and 2* of roll understeer, if i use the 1" lower hole option for my frame side upper links, it would get me 42% AD and 3* roll understeer. I would need to add another hole 1" lower again in order to net 65% AD and 4* RUS. i just might put that 3rd hole in there to have that option in case it is too soft or something.
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Old 03-24-2019, 06:39 PM   #205 (permalink)
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drew out another set of brackets thought about it last night and decided to do 'towers' for the upper links, these will get boxed in and likely braced across to each other at some later date

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she'd tall. top hole is about 12.5" above axle centerline. by going up an inch here and down and inch at the frame, i'll be able to play with AS adjustments well into the 'over 60%' range

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comparison to the old 4 Wheel Underground 3 link tower built to fit around a toyota frame

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pulled out the torch and the chisel

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This was pretty interesting to me. Kind of goes along with why i'm building so much stuff out of 0.188 thick plate and then bracing it instead of going with thicker plate. This is just some scrap, i dunno 1/4"?, that had been added to the side of the upper tower. The weld LOOKED halfway decent. not the greatest picture, but it is reasonably flat and even (this is not a 4WU welded piece, to be very clear)

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Old 03-24-2019, 06:46 PM   #206 (permalink)
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and here is the side view. i cut across the bottom with the torch, and then stuck a pry bar in there and ripped the weld off. Not surprised that it tore at the toe of the weld, but was genuinely surpised at just how little of the weld actually made it into this piece. not even fused for the whole length of the piece and less than halfway into the piece for the majority of it.

I may not be using as thick of material, but a weld that is 75-100% through some 3/16 will be better than 0-30% of a weld on some 1/4". Using the same machine and same settings, the higher mass of the thicker material will suck away more heat and result in a much worse weld overall. that's my theory anyways

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second round of torch and more chiseling.

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final round and finished with a grinder. I have no interest in cleaning up that little bit across the front #HackJob

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levelish enoughish

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and random picture of the two power steering pumps that i have. going to try to send send them off to radial dynamics and see if we can get them run through his flow/pressure test machine
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:01 PM   #207 (permalink)
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You know you could just crank your machine and/or bevel shit if you want full penetration on 1/4, right?
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:06 PM   #208 (permalink)
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well i work off 115v stuff at the house, so it doesn't get up there. and yeah it is a good highlight for why it would need to be beveled pretty.

but you know as well as i do that plenty of folks just slap some plate on there and lay a bead that 'looks good' without giving it 2 thoughts. if you are going to do that, make sure you can run enough amps to get it done
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Old 03-24-2019, 07:25 PM   #209 (permalink)
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110 definitely doesn’t have the nuts to do 1/4”

At least I don’t like doing it.
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Old 03-24-2019, 08:06 PM   #210 (permalink)
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yeah i can't remember the last time i've done it lots of bevel and 3 or 4 passes.

i'll stick with thinner stuff and laminate it if i need to
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Old 03-30-2019, 07:54 PM   #211 (permalink)
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welp took a few hours and the wife even helped

One final Before shot

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Used some string to mark out my 6" channel and some sharpie to draw in a tire clearance line

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sawzall, grinder, torch, hammer and chisel and it is now in two pieces set a decent bit of really old wood, rubber and leather on fire

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and walked it in. if i had to guess, probably not much more than 250lbs, didn't bother to weigh it though

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about where the rear is going to end up

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Old 03-30-2019, 07:59 PM   #212 (permalink)
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put in the seats and made vroom vroom noises visibility with the hood is not great

Quote:
It doesn't where you look, just how you look
- my dad

i'm way more happy with how this looks than i probably should be

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looks like i can keep the full length hood, won't be able to go much lower with it though

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clearance from the front 30" tires

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and the kid playing on the racecar in the driveway

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spent a little bit of time drawing on the body for cage lines and a bunch of time just staring at it
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:01 PM   #213 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ironfist View Post
Maybe move rear axle back and make rear fender similar to a "comp cut" jeep tub.
Looks like your suggestion is going to be the winner overall the wheelbase is stretch about 4" from what was planned and i should be able to keep about 1/2 the trunk with a comp cut on the rear for a place to put the fuel tank.
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:05 PM   #214 (permalink)
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what seats did you go with?
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Old 03-30-2019, 08:16 PM   #215 (permalink)
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Quote:
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what seats did you go with?
had to dig out my invoice, didn't realize i hadn't posted the part numbers earlier.

my fronts are PRP Comp Pro Hiback with +4" tall and +2" wide

my rear are PRP Premier Hiback with +2" tall and std wide

i'm 6'2" and these seats are tall enough that the very top of my head is right at or a hair below the very top of the seat. I wanted something that would actually provide head support and was very surprised how common and standard seats catch MOST people below the head or about mid head

my wife is 5'2" and still had to get a hiback and +2" to get something that would catch her head properly
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Old 03-31-2019, 09:46 AM   #216 (permalink)
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Wife sent over a couple of pictures, this is the dash that is currently in it. gauges are all trashed as far as i can tell, but i should have plenty of room underneath and in the center, so i'm going to try to clean out everything under the dash and put the new gauges in the center

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here you can kind of see how tall the seat is. there is about 8" to the sheet metal overhead, this puts my shoulder fully in the seat and my head fully in front of the head pad, not on or above the internal seat frame. seats themselves will likely end up about an inch higher

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also wanted to take these notes:

Lower links at ride height front and rear are pretty well flat, so anywhere up should be the same change as anywhere down and left to right should be about the same.

axle side spring mounts are 42" apart, with 7" of travel up/down, that should put the end points of the arc ) at about a 9.5* angle and about 1" inboard from start. So to keep my shocks from going beyond vertical with side to side articulation, the tops need to be inboarded at least 1" from the axle mounts when the axle is flat.

14" would be full stuff and full droop, just over 19* and almost 1.5" of motion )

being's i've got lots of space, ending up with about 1.5" inboard on each side should be well more than plenty

lower links being about the same length as they are apart puts the angle front and rear at the same, so about 9* leaned back to keep the shocks at 90* to the lower link at full stuff and full droop

https://www.crawlpedia.com/spring_rate_calculator.htm

playing around with the crawlpedia spring rate calculator and using some weights and measures from earlier in the thread:

Rear axle weight with links and small tires: 482 lbs
Front axle with some stuff: 294 lbs
Tires and wheels: 161lbs ea


puts me around 1420 lbs unsprung, leaves me about 2980 lbs for sprung weight. figure prolly 60/40 weight split would be 1788 front and 1192 rear.

calcumates to 87 lb/in for the rear so 150/200
and 131 lb/in for the front so 250/300

i need to order springs, and that is rather convinient because i'll have pretty much every combination i'd need to dial in corners when all said and done that way. right or wrong, i should only need to swap springs one time if i'm guessing wrong when it is all done

edit: after talking to 4wheelunderground briefly through emails, he thinks those numbers are a bit high, especially in the front. i've reproposed 150/200 (86 lb/in) for the front and 125/175 (73 lb/in) for the rear. changed my weight bias guess to 55/45 and took an average using 10" and 9" compression for a 'goal rate' of 87.25 in the front and 71.25 rear.

math follows 3000lbs * 0.55 = 1650 lbs/2 = 825lbs sprung per corner front
3000lbs * 0.45 = 1350lbs/2 = 675lbs sprung per corner rear

825lbs / 10" = 82.5 lbs/in for 3" preload and 7" shaft exposed, centered 14" shock
675lbs / 10" = 67.5 lbs/in """"

825/9 = 92 lbs/in for 2" preload
675/9 = 75 lbs/in ""

(82.5+92)/2 = 87.25 for about 2.5" preload front
(67.5+75)/2 = 71.25 ""
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Old 04-08-2019, 03:36 PM   #217 (permalink)
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weekend update:

sent away a bunch of money for shocks

got in the 203/D300 32 spline shafts, had a fit issue and they are back at NorthWest Fab to get worked on (one from NWF, other from AA)

decided against using an affordable hydraulic gear pump and was sold on a fancy "trophy truck" style pump

the OSPU 80/240 steering valve i want to run is apparently not available in N America

and had a buddy heat treat some dimple dies for me, half of them didn't take so he is going to try again


started cutting out the body bracing

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dash bar tucks in, i just might be able to use the cowl vent when it is all done, so that would be pimp

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cut a bunch of roof out

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without cutting out the factory door latches, i can only get about half the tube into the door jam. considering i've committed to hacking the doors up, i'll likely pull the latches and cut back some more so that i can get the whole tube tucked better

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started clearing out the top to see how tight i can get the roof bar to the roof

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also i'm going to toss this up in here so that i don't forget. Working with Berendsen Fluid Power

OLS 120 Dynamic Priority Valve ~ $267 9 week lead time

OLS 80 Static Priority Valve ~ $187 9 week lead time

OSPU 80/320 Steering Valve ~ $920 9 week lead time

so just a little bit more than a typical Non Load Reactive hydraulic steering valve, but it *should* have better street manners with the flow amplifying characteristics. Slow steering wheel input RPM will net just under 4 turns lock to lock, impossibly fast input (100 rpm) will net about 1.5 turns lock to lock.

every time i turn around i keep saying "This is my FINAL large purchase" NOPE! cot dang, seems like it used to be that everything was $100, then i figured $500...now it seems like a solid grand every time i turn around
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Old 04-19-2019, 04:38 PM   #218 (permalink)
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couldn't think of much to take pictures of, lots of grinding.

In general, the screws have been surprisingly good to remove, but i just couldn't get the latch ones, so ended up cutting out the latches and hinges as whole units

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I'm not sure how much weight i have removed, but it is substantial.

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I didn't cut out the interior A pillar as it is about all that is holding the body sort of in place, but i think i've got a plan for the roof and such so that will be the next big thing

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I'm going to try and redraw it in bend tech to see what happens to it weight wise

edit: this is kind of what i'm thinking. makes more sense to draw it on the computer after drawing on the body. Not the easiest pictures to decipher and i've not got a set plan for the front or rear.

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Old 04-21-2019, 06:52 PM   #219 (permalink)
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got the rest of the interior bracing cut out, now the shell is a happy floppy tree

also started laying out on the tubes. i've only got 1 tube clamp, so using my angle iron, drew a line down the tube, marked the center of the bend-ish, measured the bend length, then set the tube clamp offset for all the bends

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The lower block of the tube clamp is what holds the pin and controls the alignment, so as long as i put that lower corner in the same spot in relation to my drawn line it is pretty simple to keep everything going straight, or angled as much as needed if a twist is wanted

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now that i've got the body and front axle in place i've got even less space. these roof line bits are 111" long and that is pretty much the max length i can fit in that corner now. Happy Coincidence.

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A pillar roof spreader bar, both A-D roof bars and the D pillar under-the-rear-window spreader bar. Haven't got myself set on an order for notching and bracing these together yet. maybe next weekend i'll stare at it until it makes sense.

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also i was re-reading the WE Rock rulebook and they want the side/door bar to be the same thickness as the main tubes. edit to finish my thought: so i'll probably go with the same design that i have in the post above and just use .120 for the tube between A and B. Sticking with the single bent tube going from A to Rocker panel and a straight from B to that tube 'should' make it easy to adjust the height and find something that offers protection without being too cumbersome to climb over
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Last edited by Provience; 04-21-2019 at 07:03 PM.
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Old 04-22-2019, 06:14 AM   #220 (permalink)
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nice

thats some badass work out of that tiny shop
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Old 05-17-2019, 05:40 PM   #221 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by fredycruger View Post
nice

thats some badass work out of that tiny shop
thanks! I keep plugging along and it seems to keep moving forward (though not literally )

guess i haven't touched it in the last month, but otherwise good things have happened.

Big shout out to my sponsors that have signed on thus far, pretty sweet deal so far and i encourage others to get in on the "open program". basically, i pay full price for products, they provide great customer service and quality products in return

Big thanks to @NorthWestFab for having this 32 spline t-case stuff keep a cheap bastard like me wheeling on old technology

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Can't say enough good things about 4wheelunderground @Taco-Runner for getting some radflo @Bomber52 and some PAC springs

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also i made up some 1-3/4 and 2" dimple dies and had a buddy give a whirl at doing a heat treat on them. 4130 and he managed to get a killer rockwell C of 15....derp

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so he gave me one of his 'blem' unfinished knives to make up for it thanks Rick!

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I think that is everybody I can name drop in this post. I really do appreciate the support!

Yes, i do know that likely none of those folks have logged in for a while, butt-fuck'em! I hope they get a email from vertical scope that says "you've been mentioned in a thread" and maybe they will come back to forums for a minute
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Old 05-18-2019, 12:26 AM   #222 (permalink)
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https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...CABEgL54vD_BwE

I wanna see you get that pulley back on the same way the correct way is only $15

Keep on it, I keep checking in. Canít want for a shake down run report.
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Old 05-18-2019, 08:02 AM   #223 (permalink)
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Originally Posted by Rubirunner85 View Post
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/w...CABEgL54vD_BwE

I wanna see you get that pulley back on the same way the correct way is only $15

Keep on it, I keep checking in. Canít want for a shake down run report.


well the plan WAS to go with a gear pump and make an adapter and all kinds of other happy horse shit so it wasn't supposed to matter. but then at some point it seemed like a good idea to give https://radial-dynamics.com/ some support and buy one of his high flow pumps if he can get what he thinks he can out of them.

so yeah, i'm not sure what is going on in that corner anymore and i'm just going to ignore it until parts show up or something.
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